U.S. Men 2021-22 season news & updates

olympic said:
Why are people upthread saying he didn’t have them?

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ETA - I want to make it clear to everyone that I am completely on the fence re Jason or Ilia. I actually would have been fine with sending Ilia. I am not in 1 skater’s camp or another. I just think we need to stop being childish, suggesting that Ilia should get up and leave for another country based on one decision or making Jason out to be somehow undeserving of an Olympic spot, while making sure that Jason fans completely understand that quads and high tech values for the future do matter, and so it is a true debate.

Unpopular but I think that splitting the difference and giving them each an assignment is the only solution.

And I really am sensitive about Russia and their news articles. After 2016, I am suspicious of Russia. I see meddling
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Russian homophobia is disgusting and also terrifying because we know there are Russian skaters in the closet. I appreciated Guillame saying he had to speak out not for himself but for Russian skaters.

Jason’s sexuality is so besides the point. Unlike Adam (or post-skating, Johnny) Jason makes no point of his sexuality other than quietly acknowledging it this year. He’s never skated macho programs and he’s never skated gay club programs. He’s just Jason, a person with an artistic point of view.
 
jlai said:
Brown should have gotten bronze over Zhou, but that's neither here nor there when it comes to selection. That said, fan debate would have shifted over to both Zhou Vs. Ilia and Ilia vs Brown instead.
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Watching the men's nationals, I really don't understand how anyone could say that Jason should have been marked over Vincent. Jason is stuck in the mid 90's with this tech level. Vincent had a rough skate, but he at least landed a few quads. Jason is a lovely skater, but I think his skating ability is a little overblown. Compare him to Kamila or even Anna Scherbakova, the girls actually do more difficult jumps than he does and have tons of choreography. There are men too who combine artistry with quads, like Hanyu or Javier. If you go back further, Jeffery, Jeremy, Patrick, Stephane, Takahashi [edited to add more] were able to combine a quad jump with artistic skating. Jason can't even manage one quad jump. I get people like Jason and he's a joy to watch, but that's why there needs to be pro skating. However he's not even trying anything near what the top 3 guys at Nationals had. Jason had an opportunity to go to the Olympics when he was 18. Presumably they sent him because they wanted to give a young skater exposure. Here's this kid, who earned it with his skates and technical content, and he is not going to have an Olympic experience where he can just get his feet wet and skate. Let's just make him wait until he's 21 , if his body even holds up, and have his first experience be pressure laden where he is expected to win.
 
soogar said:
Watching the men's nationals, I really don't understand how anyone could say that Jason should have been marked over Vincent. Jason is stuck in the mid 90's with this tech level. Vincent had a rough skate, but he at least landed a few quads. Jason is a lovely skater, but I think his skating ability is a little overblown. Compare him to Kamila or even Anna Scherbakova, the girls actually do more difficult jumps than he does and have tons of choreography. There are men too who combine artistry with quads, like Hanyu or Javier. If you go back further, Jeffery, Jeremy, Patrick, Stephane, Takahashi [edited to add more] were able to combine a quad jump with artistic skating. Jason can't even manage one quad jump. I get people like Jason and he's a joy to watch, but that's why there needs to be pro skating. However he's not even trying anything near what the top 3 guys at Nationals had. Jason had an opportunity to go to the Olympics when he was 18. Presumably they sent him because they wanted to give a young skater exposure. Here's this kid, who earned it with his skates and technical content, and he is not going to have an Olympic experience where he can just get his feet wet and skate. Let's just make him wait until he's 21 , if his body even holds up, and have his first experience be pressure laden where he is expected to win.
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quads are high risks high reward, so when you start underrotating and falling and etc etc. The negative goes, and deductions rack up
 
This whole who should get the Olympics is really two questions: kinda like:
Did Kwan win her 5 world titles fair and square according to criteria at the time?
Is this season's judging criteria fair in producing the right champion?

We can evaluate the scoring in the off season, but we have to congratulate the champion.
 
Karen-W said:
So, Ilia just did his own IG Live and no worries about his command of the English language and barely a hint of an accent except when he was pronouncing Russian names. He said he can speak Russian but isn't very good at reading or writing it and he has never been to Russia. He is such a typical North American teenage boy it's hilarious that anyone would ever think he would switch feds. He's also fairly media savvy in the sense that he knows how to keep a lid on things. He did say he thought he should be going to the Olympics but it was out of his hands and didn't seem to be despondent or terribly upset about it, which was nice. All in all, US Men's skating is really in good hands with this kid.
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Why on earth would he have an accent? He was born and raised in the United States. He spoke on NBC yesterday. If he had any accent it was the accent of a Valley boy. But, even if he did have an accent, so what? Plenty of Americans have accents. I think it is silly that people are saying that he should consider skating for another country, but it's pretty obvious that those statements are not because people think he's not American or is not a "typical North American teenage boy," whatever that is. It's because they believe that he is not being treated fairly by U.S. Figure Skating, so he should find a federation that will. I disagree with that. But, none of these people are suggesting that any other American skaters who are the children of immigrants - and there are plenty of such skaters - should skate for another country. It's pretty clear that they are fans of his and are not making these statements because they think he is not American or out of xenophobia. And it's not like others born in the United States and citizens of the United States have not skated for other federations. I think Keegan Messing still has his American citizenship.
 
Allskate said:
Why on earth would he have an accent? He was born and raised in the United States. He spoke on NBC yesterday. If he had any accent it was the accent of a Valley boy. But, even if he did have an accent, so what? Plenty of Americans have accents. I think it is silly that people are saying that he should consider skating for another country, but it's pretty obvious that those statements are not because people think he's not American or is not a "typical North American teenage boy," whatever that is. It's because they believe that he is not being treated fairly by U.S. Figure Skating, so he should find a federation that will. I disagree with that. But, none of these people are suggesting that any other American skaters who are the children of immigrants - and there are plenty of such skaters - should skate for another country. It's pretty clear that they are fans of his and are not making these statements because they think he is not American or out of xenophobia. And it's not like others born in the United States and citizens of the United States have not skated for other federations. I think Keegan Messing still has his American citizenship.
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This comes from other sections of the board and someone saying he couldn't speak well/had a strong accent like he always spoke Russian at home or whatever the hell @sk9tingfan said.
 
Allskate said:
Why on earth would he have an accent? He was born and raised in the United States. He spoke on NBC yesterday. If he had any accent it was the accent of a Valley boy. But, even if he did have an accent, so what? Plenty of Americans have accents. I think it is silly that people are saying that he should consider skating for another country, but it's pretty obvious that those statements are not because people think he's not American or is not a "typical North American teenage boy," whatever that is. It's because they believe that he is not being treated fairly by U.S. Figure Skating, so he should find a federation that will. I disagree with that. But, none of these people are suggesting that any other American skaters who are the children of immigrants - and there are plenty of such skaters - should skate for another country. It's pretty clear that they are fans of his and are not making these statements because they think he is not American or out of xenophobia. And it's not like others born in the United States and citizens of the United States have not skated for other federations. I think Keegan Messing still has his American citizenship.
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There was a poster in the Men's Free pbp who was concerned about a minor grammatical mistake Ilia made in the Andrea Joyce interview yesterday and said he heard a Russian accent, which caused him to question Ilia's upbringing/education, and it then carried over into this thread yesterday evening. Many of us challenged the "concern" as massively displaced and probably if there was any hint of an accent it would have been because he was emotional or had just been speaking with someone in Russian before the interview. It was all ridiculous, so my report about the IG Live today was designed to further dispel any concerns about just how "American" Ilia really is.

Maybe go catch up on the admittedly fast-moving threads before overreacting, mmmkay?
 
soogar said:
Jason had an opportunity to go to the Olympics when he was 18. Presumably they sent him because they wanted to give a young skater exposure. Here's this kid, who earned it with his skates and technical content, and he is not going to have an Olympic experience where he can just get his feet wet and skate. Let's just make him wait until he's 21 , if his body even holds up, and have his first experience be pressure laden where he is expected to win.
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Revisionist history? From Wikipedia, here's Jason's record leading up to the 2014 Olympics.​

2011–2012 season[edit]​

Brown began his season with a win at his first Junior Grand Prix event, in Brisbane, Australia.[23][24] He then took silver in Milan, At the Junior Grand Prix Final, Brown was second in both segments and won the gold medal overall.[26] Brown was assigned to the 2012 World Junior Championships and won the bronze medal.

2012–2013 season[edit]​

Brown won gold and silver medals on the JGP series and qualified for his second JGP Final, where he finished fourth. At the 2013 U.S. Figure Skating Championships, he placed eighth overall. He was sent to the 2013 World Junior Championships where he placed third in the short program and first in the free skate after landing two triple Axels for the first time in his career. Brown won the silver medal.

2013–2014 season[edit]​



Brown won the silver medal in his senior international debut at the 2013 Nebelhorn Trophy in Oberstdorf, Germany. On September 30, 2013, he was called up to replace reigning Olympic champion Evan Lysacek at Skate America after the latter withdrew due to injury.[30] Brown finished fifth at the event, his first senior Grand Prix event. In November 2013, he competed at a Grand Prix event in Paris, the 2013 Trophée Éric Bompard, and won the bronze medal. He also attracted much attention from the skating public and the French in particular, becoming a crowd favorite.

At the U.S. Championships in January 2014, Brown placed third in the short program and first in the free skate with his Riverdance program, which became a viral video garnering more than 4 million hits. He won the silver medal and was named in the U.S. team to the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi, Russia

So, leading up to being named to the 2014 Olympic team, Brown had a strong record of achievement over multiple years, first at the junior level and then at the senior level.
 
I watched the Andrea Joyce interview and thought he sounded about 95 percent "typical North American boy" with a couple of interesting exceptions. A touch of accent would pop out on an occasional word. And he mixed up "well" and "good," which to some extent is unusual -- you often hear "good" used in place of "well' ("I skated good"), but not often the other way around, which he also did. I imagine he might fascinate a linguist. :) But I didn't at all think his accent was heavy or his grammar terrible; there were just these occasional little things.
 
Wyliefan said:
I watched the Andrea Joyce interview and thought he sounded about 95 percent "typical North American boy" with a couple of interesting exceptions. A touch of accent would pop out on an occasional word. And he mixed up "well" and "good," which to some extent is unusual -- you often hear "good" used in place of "well' ("I skated good"), but not often the other way around, which he also did. I imagine he might fascinate a linguist. :) But I didn't at all think his accent was heavy or his grammar terrible; there were just these occasional little things.
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That was my take on the interview also. And I've been around enough teenagers to know that sometimes, especially when they're emotional, the rules of grammar fail them, so I just didn't even flag it as consequential.
 
tony said:
This comes from other sections of the board and someone saying he couldn't speak well/had a strong accent like he always spoke Russian at home or whatever the hell @sk9tingfan said.
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I wondered if he had been born somewhere other than the US due to his accent as well as his syntax/grammar. That's all.
 
What's the point in discussing Ilia's English language abilities? Is this suggesting if his English is poor then he isn't fit to represent USA at the Olympics? Or that he isn't American enough? Why make the distinction?

I hate these inferences. Pet peeve my arse.
 
misskarne said:
And nine years ago the surprise US Champion not only had big clean 3As but big clean 4S, which he could land more than once in a free, something no other US man at the time could do, and he got immediate hate and backlash for it.

How the turn tables.
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Just like when Nathan Chen first came on the scene when people thought he was nothing but jumps and skated like a junior with his Michael Jackson program. There will always be people who prefer who they perceived to be as more artistic skaters. Fans also perceive that skater as a threat to their faves so they act accordingly, which is obvious the way some people were treating certain skaters in the US mens thread when discussion of the Olympic team came up pre-season, GP season, and then pre-Nats. Once you start winning and show you’re more than a flash in the pan, things may change.

Regarding Max, there was some perceived favoritism fans thought was going on. Some think the USFS is always looking for their straight white hope and would always prefer a straight “masc” skater over a gay or less masc one and it really ramped up during the Evan v. Johnny days and I believe that carried over to how those some people treated Max Aaron as he got tons of attention and hype.

As for my opinion, clearly a great jumper, seems like a grade A guy who gets along with many of his fellow skaters, and very good looking. Nice quad. However, inconsistent and his skating scores had a ceiling despite the quad because his skating needed a lot of work in many areas and despite him clearly trying to work on his areas of deficiency, he just never became a skater whose style and way of moving I could be a fan of. I also think his international scores reflected that for the most part. That’s not hate. That’s just how I saw his skating.
 
I'd be the first to admit that Zhou does nothing for me as a skater... but looking at this seasons scores broken down into mean components here: https://skatingscores.com/men/ , the US is sending a team that has at least one man in the top three of tevery element that comprises the score. Additionally, they're sending the man with the highest mean base value (Zhou); the highest event TES (Chen), and the highest PCS (Brown). Granted this is just from this past season, and Hanyu didn't compete internationally, but even so, that's a solid group of three.

[Mean event scores below]

Mean Event total:
Chen, Kagiyama, Uno.... Zhou [4th] Brown [6th] .... Malinin [30th - which makes him the 2nd highest scorer of the men who did 2 JGP and 1 Senior event]

Or broken down into the sub-columns... here are the top three men in each component of a skating score:
Base value: Zhou, Chen, Grassl .... [ 16th Malinin ... 40th Brown]
Event TES: Chen, Zhou, Kagiyama [ 16th Brown... 22 Malinin]
PCS: Brown, Chen, Uno [6th Zhou 54th Malinin]

Mean Jump: Zhou, Chen, Kagiyama [16 Malinin, 29 Brown]
Mean Spin: Kolyada, Brown, Zonov [4 Chen 8 Zhou, 14 Malinin ]
Mean Step Seq: Brown, Chen, Siao Him Fa [6 Zhou, 93 Malinin]
Mean Choreo Seq: Brown, Chen, Cha [9 Zhou, 73 Malinin]
Mean Skating Skills: Chen, Uno, Brown [6 Zhou, 54 Malinin]
Transitions: Brown, Chen, Uno [ 6 Zhou, 55 Malinin]
Mean PE: Brown, Chen, Uno [5 Zhou, 52 Malinin]
Mean Choreography: Brown, Chen, Uno [7 Zhou, 58 Malinin]
Mean IN: Brown, Chen, Uno [6 Zhou, 55 Malinin]
 
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Impromptu said:
Mean Spin: Kolyada, Brown, Zonov [4 Chen 8 Zhou, 14 Malinin ]
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Pretty awesome post @Impromptu! I just want to point out how high Malinin is already regarded for his spins! Obviously he has a ways to go in his PCS and his step/choreo sequences but he's got a solid foundation already with the jumps and spins. I absolutely love his headless scratch spin to end his SP.
 
I wonder about the role of Brown's popularity among once-every-four-years-fans. Perhaps NBC is relieved to be able to hype Brown instead of Malinin.
 
I like how stories get made up after the fact. It's not just skating I see it all the time. Prior to Nationals people were pretty OK with a Chen/Zhou/Brown team. Probably wished the 3rd spot was someone with more TES. But, a reliable Brown with a huge PCS was a good team member. At nationals Brown delivers two very good programs. Clean short and aside from the 4S a very good long - i.e. not at all the bumbling around of 2018.

Now to everyone's surprise, including the skater's, Malinin skates like he's never skated before in both segments. It's normal for people to debate who the correct choice should be. (Iactually thought they would take Ilia) But, all this skullduggery about the selection committee motives is nonsense. "They were going to take Jason no matter what." "That, they were bringing skaters to Nashville just to see if Jason would fail." "That they were going to take Jason even if he was 5th." "That USFS is anti quad." - enough.

I'm sure Ilia's team is guiding him to forget Nationals and focus on this amazing outcome. That, instead of going to junior worlds he's going to senior. Good on Ilia!
 
Allskate said:
Why on earth would he have an accent? He was born and raised in the United States. He spoke on NBC yesterday. If he had any accent it was the accent of a Valley boy. But, even if he did have an accent, so what? Plenty of Americans have accents. I think it is silly that people are saying that he should consider skating for another country, but it's pretty obvious that those statements are not because people think he's not American or is not a "typical North American teenage boy," whatever that is. It's because they believe that he is not being treated fairly by U.S. Figure Skating, so he should find a federation that will. I disagree with that. But, none of these people are suggesting that any other American skaters who are the children of immigrants - and there are plenty of such skaters - should skate for another country. It's pretty clear that they are fans of his and are not making these statements because they think he is not American or out of xenophobia. And it's not like others born in the United States and citizens of the United States have not skated for other federations. I think Keegan Messing still has his American citizenship. I know right? Who cares if Ilia even had an accent sounds like someone has xenophobia to me.
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Deleted
 
Ilia's only accent is that of a typical teenaged boy from Northern Virginia. Depending on where you are from in the US, you may or not recognize is "accent." I do not hear it but I definately here a New York accent.

His mom prefers to teach skating in Russian. So when Ilia speaks ice skating terms, it is not strange that a Russian accent would come through.
 
Watching TSL and there were comments about Vincent and his political views. Has he said controversial things in the past?
 
Impromptu said:
It's TSL. They probably hear from the cousin of the sister-in-law of the zamboni driver of a rink in the same town as the where he trains that Vincent thinks Star Wars was a stupid movie.
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He went to the Trump White House after the Olys when Nathan and Adam didn’t. And he apparently liked some tweets from Ben Shapiro. That’s it.
 
I think he had some real Republican leanings when he was 17-18. I don’t think he’s liked or tweeted anything political in the past three or two years though. I hope he’s learned some things. Or at least he learned to keep his mouth shut. Maybe he’ll end up like a Jamie Sale/Lloyd Eisler. Or maybe he’ll learn more at Brown. Who knows. Is his family from Taiwan? A lot of Taiwanese immigrants in the US became very pro-Trump due to their perceived idea of him being strong against China when a lot of Dem Presidents in the past seemed like they were appeasing China (the truth is a lot more complicated and they’ve been warning about China as well). As a Viet-American who has family who does the same thing, it’s a huge thing to overcome.
 
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VGThuy said:
I think he had some real Republican leanings when he was 17-18. I don’t think he’s likes or tweeted anything political in the past three or two years though. I hope he’s learned some things. Or at least he learned to keep his mouth shut. Maybe he’ll end up like a Jamie Sale/Lloyd Eisler. Or maybe he’ll learn more at Brown. Who knows. Is his family from Taiwan? A lot of Taiwanese immigrants in the US became very pro-Trump due to their perceived idea of him being strong against China when a lot of Dem Presidents in the past seemed like they were appeasing China (the truth is a lot more complicated and they’ve been warning about China as well). As a Viet-American who has family who does the same thing, it’s a huge thing to overcome.
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Is Jamie Sale right-wing? Eisler I knew about.
 
VGThuy said:
I think he had some real Republican leanings when he was 17-18. I don’t think he’s liked or tweeted anything political in the past three or two years though. I hope he’s learned some things. Or at least he learned to keep his mouth shut. Maybe he’ll end up like a Jamie Sale/Lloyd Eisler. Or maybe he’ll learn more at Brown. Who knows. Is his family from Taiwan? A lot of Taiwanese immigrants in the US became very pro-Trump due to their perceived idea of him being strong against China when a lot of Dem Presidents in the past seemed like they were appeasing China (the truth is a lot more complicated and they’ve been warning about China as well). As a Viet-American who has family who does the same thing, it’s a huge thing to overcome.
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His family's from China, not Taiwan. I never thought of him being pro-Trump. He was just a teen excited to be invited to the White House years ago.
 
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