U.S. Ladies [#29]: Skating with Adjusted Vision

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shine said:
Genuine question...did people really think her 3A or 4Lz was going to last through puberty with the technique she had? Also, I found her smile looked completely pasted on throughout this program. She’s always had that cutesy smile for her upbeat programs, but it came across really rehearsed this times.
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I'm not sure about the smile, but I'm quite sure she's fully aware of her jump troubles and she would be superhuman if that didn't distress her. Which is why I'd really like to see people be patient and supportive. It's not as if she or any coach had the power to take a detour around puberty.
 
Spun Silver said:
It's not as if she or any coach had the power to take a detour around puberty.
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EXACTLY! Your daughter is 14/15 months from being on an Olympic team and then THIS??? I'm not talking about puberty, that happens, but not to have any sort of plan in mind when this happens??? What, my kid had quad lutz and triple Axel but under a "bad" coach so we are taking her training to Canada under Lee, but it's only through internet! You will see how she will thrive with no technical coach, no skating skills coach, no at the moment teaching. Yay Mr Liu???
 
Before the U.S. Championship Series of 8 in person competitions was canceled earlier today, I counted 22 U.S. Senior ladies (of 26 total) currently listed in the ISP who had registered for at least one of 5 comps (MA, WA, IN, NV, TX).
MN, GA & VA didn't publish Senior ladies entries and I assume Ting Cui, Gracie Gold & Emily Zhang registered for VA which was the closest comp. to them (ETA that those 3 have been since been confirmed to me to have been on the Leesburg, VA list that initially was made public).

* = has a bye to 2021 Nationals (9 total)

*Starr Andrews
Maxine Marie Bautista
*Mariah Bell
Julia Biechler
Alena Budko (junior last season)
*Karen Chen
Calista Choi (J3 at Nationals)
Ting Cui
*Amber Glenn
Gracie Gold
Hanna Harrell
Finley Hawk (junior last season)
Courtney Hicks
Rena Ikenishi
Isabelle Inthisone (J4 at Nationals)
Gabriella Izzo
Sarah Jung
*Pooja Kalyan
*Alysa Liu
Paige Rydberg
*Audrey Shin
*Bradie Tennell
*Lindsay Thorngren (J1 at Nationals)
Violeta Ushakova (qualified for Easterns in Senior last season but WD)
Sierra Venetta
Emily Zhang

Other notable Senior ladies who had registered and previously qualified for Nationals in Senior:
Alex Evans (2020)
Caitlin Ha (2020)
Alyssa Rich (2020)
Emilia Murdock (2020 WD)
Heidi Munger (2019)
Kaitlyn Nguyen (2018)

ETA that 5 of the 18 Junior ladies at 2020 Nationals have registered to skate Senior this season -- Thorngren, Choi, Inthisone, plus Mauryn Tyack J14 and Mia Eckels J17.
 
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Give Alysa time. If she's injured AND going through puberty at the same time, imagine the mental stress she is enduring. She is not by any means ignorant to the fact that the Olympics are in 16 months. Alysa is a very bright and talented girl, but the odds worked against her favor. Let's give her time before calling anything prematurely. Some stars burn brightest only to die off the quickest. Hopefully, Alysa's star will burn bright for a very long time but none of us can truly know what the future holds. We can only wait and see.
 
While there are other US skaters I would rather see make the Olympic team than Liu I hope that she manages to get at least some of her jumps back and perform well at Nationals for her own sake. I can’t see her getting the 4z and 3a back but it would be nice to be proved wrong :)
If she has to go through a bad patch this probably isn’t a bad season to do it - no JGP and maybe no JW :( Meanwhile she is working on other areas of her skating with Scali that needed improving, she won Nats because of her high scoring jumps, her PCS was unsurprisingly lower than skaters like Bradie and Mariah - she was 12 or 13 after all... it will be interesting to see the improvement in her speed and skating skills no matter how she jumps.
 
I’ve said from the beginning Liu would likely have one of two paths if she wants a successful career. Either a short meteoric rise where she achieves her goals including an individual medal in Beijing. Or a long career where she fixes her technique and works on skating skills. As a result of her physical growth and quarantine. It’s looking like the latter could be in the cards. It could take several years. She may experience hardship, perhaps miss out on the Olympic Team. But she could have a good end result. The kid’s only fifteen.
 
I think the best we can hope for is what we saw from Caroline Zhang. She tried extremely hard for many, many years to fix her technique. She got rid of the kick on the entrance to the flip, she improved the height and flow of her double axel, she perfected a new combination (the 3-loop/3-loop) that she did not have as a junior and she fought and clawed her way back on the US National podium (with a pewter in 2012). In her last Nationals in 2017 (coming back from serious orthopedic surgery) she placed a very respectable 5th.
 
Eeyora1 said:
I’ve said from the beginning Liu would likely have one of two paths if she wants a successful career. Either a short meteoric rise where she achieves her goals including an individual medal in Beijing. Or a long career where she fixes her technique and works on skating skills. As a result of her physical growth and quarantine. It’s looking like the latter could be in the cards. It could take several years. She may experience hardship, perhaps miss out on the Olympic Team. But she could have a good end result. The kid’s only fifteen.
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If she misses next Olympics, when she'll be 16, and stays around for the next one - she'll be 20 then. Her father has 3 or 4 university degrees, he a very learned man. I doubt that he'll allow Alysa not to attend a univeristy for so long. I am thinking his plan was to get her to Olympics @ 16, let her skate shows for 1-2 years and then pursue education. Just my estimate.
 
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It's also possible that Alysa can pursue university at the same time, whether in-person or through online classes. She is already about two years ahead in high school courses through online schooling. Plenty of figure skaters graduate from university while skating competitively, so it's no like she has to totally ignore education for skating.
 
Polina Edmunds article by Nick Zaccardi (Nov. 4, 2020) - also posted in her thread in the TC where I've been linking to podcast episodes by and about her:
olympics.nbcsports.com

Polina Edmunds wanted another Olympic run. The coronavirus pandemic stopped it.

Polina Edmunds, a 2014 U.S. Olympic figure skater, retired from the sport due to the coronavirus pandemic.
olympics.nbcsports.com olympics.nbcsports.com
Excerpts:
Edmunds leaned on a university degree, which many Olympians don’t have at the end of athletic careers in their 20s. Though entering the work force now is difficult, she could put her skills to use while staying connected to the sport. She has skating seminars scheduled this month and hopes to perform in shows once they resume.
Edmunds, who wants to get into sports broadcasting, also created her own website — https://www.polpowered.com. She started a podcast, “tapping into the slippery slope of the figure skating world.” She draws from her own experiences in discussing sensitive topics, including politics within the sport and body image.
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Edmunds, at 22, is satisfied with her skating career. But she will miss the international competition, traveling and interacting with athletes from around the world.
“When I stopped, I felt kind of in limbo, and it didn’t feel like a lot of my days mattered or counted to anything, because I didn’t have that same structure,” she said. “Learning how to manage that and throw my energy into other opportunities and work, that was a struggle, but now I feel like I’m really going with the flow. I don’t miss the hardships of training anymore.”
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The best laid plans of mice and men. Rika was poised to win 2019 worlds... and didn't even medal. Nothing was gonna stop the 3A from sweeping 2020 worlds... till it was cancelled. I highly doubt there will be a 2021 worlds. Now I think about it, the only world medalist we might have at the Olympics for the ladies is Wakaba. There's just no predicting these things, especially now.
2 time National champion at 15 is a great accomplishment, even if that's as far as Alyssa goes, especially if she or her dad were always planning to quit after 2022. But it's too early to write her off completely imo. A lot can change in 18 months. But the fact that she hasn't found a different temporary jump coach that she can get to after 10 months of quarantine with no end in sight is very bizarre.
 
It might not be that she can't "find" a temporary jump coach but rather, due to her supposed injury, simply can't jump excessively.
 
Who decides in the middle of a pandemic to dump their coach and go train with someone from another country that you can't even travel to because of this virus? This ranks with the worst coaching decisions ever made worse since because of her growth spurt she needs more on hand training with a good jump coach then ever before. The only hope for Alysa is that it becomes apparent she won't be able to train with Lee in the near future and needs a real coach now and goes to someone like Raf because the 2022 Winter Olympics are coming up fast.
 
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Jammers said:
Who decides in the middle of a ********* to dump their coach and go train with someone from another country that you can't even travel to because of this *****? This ranks with the worst coaching decisions ever made worse since because of her growth spurt she needs more on hand training with a good jump coach then ever before. The only hope for Alysa is that it becomes apparent she won't be able to train with Lee in the near future and needs a real coach now and goes to someone like Raf because the 2022 Winter Olympics are coming up fast.
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I suspect that Team Liu dumped the long-time coach as a result of Alysa’s 3rd-place showing at Jr Worlds. It must have been a shocker to be beaten by not just Valieva (as at the Jr GP final) but also by Usacheva. Everything seemed to be going by the plan until about Dec 2019, then to go further down by March 2020. It made sense to make the big change at the halfway point to the next Olympics. Then ****** struck...but I’ll bet that the decision was made after Jr Worlds in early March.

***** just happened to come a week or so after Jr Worlds.
 
Marco said:
I am so in love with Karen's Butterfly Lovers program. There should have been a certain bittersweet / "til death do us 'part" element to this story before the lovers died and turned into butterflies. But other than that, I felt she used the music BEAUTIFULLY. To me she should have won the free skate and had the silver overall.

Mariah was coming into her own self and was so confident. That said, I HATE the ABBA program. So she lost Nationals, I wanna bet it's because of this program holding her back. I would place her 2nd in the free but 1st overall.

Bradie's program was a let down after Sunset Blvd last season highlighted her crispness and precision. They were all but lost this season. Her jumps continued to be problematic but I am glad they at least got rid of the lutz/loop combo for now. Not a fan of her this season. Would place her off the podium here because almost everything Audrey did was better.
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Bradie skated to "Cinema Paradiso" last season, and I agree that it was a superior program with probably one of my favorite choreo sequences (along with Mariah's). I wish she stuck with it this season so she could work on the 3A and cleaning up her 3+3 combinations.

I agree that Mariah's ABBA program -- in its current iteration -- may be a liability come Nationals.

As for Alysa, she's clearly grown and needs time to adjust to her new body. If you look at Michelle and someone like Liza T, good fundamental technique carried them through physical changes, but there was still an adjustment period. I personally don't have a problem with her smiling; it reminds me of Tara circa 1996-1998. If she was smiling and then immediately frowned (or pouted) coming off the ice, I'd say it was put on, but it doesn't seem to be.

I'd rather she take this season (and maybe a loss at Nationals) to adjust to her physical changes, maybe put a little less technical content out there (even if she just did one 3A in each program that's already more than any of her compatriots) and get more height/spring than relying just on rotation.

I'm all for Amber Glenn, but she's been around for awhile now and has yet to break through (or have the consistency that the USFS favors) but we'll see. The season is really just only starting.
 
Frau Muller said:
I suspect that Team Liu dumped the long-time coach as a result of Alysa’s 3rd-place showing at Jr Worlds. It must have been a shocker to be beaten by not just Valieva (as at the Jr GP final) but also by Usacheva. Everything seemed to be going by the plan until about Dec 2019, then to go further down by March 2020. It made sense to make the big change at the halfway point to the next Olympics. Then ****** struck...but I’ll bet that the decision was made after Jr Worlds in early March.

***** just happened to come a week or so after Jr Worlds.
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It wasn't just losing to Valieva (who I believe was also injured or still recovering) at the Jr GP final or Usacheva at Jr. Worlds that must have been the shock but the fact that she lost to them when they didn't have a quad or single 3A in their programs. Here she is competing three 3As and a quad in her SP/FS and they got far less difficulty yet they still beat her. That had to be a MAJOR eye opener shocker for her team.
 
NAOTMAA said:
It wasn't just losing to Valieva (who I believe was also injured or still recovering) at the Jr GP final or Usacheva at Jr. Worlds that must have been the shock but the fact that she lost to them when they didn't have a quad or single 3A in their programs. Here she is competing three 3As and a quad in her SP/FS and they got far less difficulty yet they still beat her. That had to be a MAJOR eye opener shocker for her team.
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Her team should have realized that the overall quality of skating from the Russian girls was much superior and that eeked out jumps and lack of speed and skating skills will get you marked down especially when compared to the other top Juniors. It's like they thought they could do with Alysa what Raf did with Nathan and his quads but Nathan had a much better foundation and was a much better rounded skater then Alysa is and he was always improving his elements which Alysa hasn't shown yet..
 
Jammers said:
Her team should have realized that the overall quality of skating from the Russian girls was much superior and that eeked out jumps and lack of speed and skating skills will get you marked down especially when compared to the other top Juniors. It's like they thought they could do with Alysa what Raf did with Nathan and his quads but Nathan had a much better foundation and was a much better rounded skater then Alysa is and he was always improving his elements which Alysa hasn't shown yet..
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All true...but Alysa is a female and, whether we FSUers like it or not, the US public tends to pay greatest attention to the ladies discipline. Since her first US Sr title at age 13, she was America's “next great Kwan hope” to take it all in 2022. Not so now...at least for now, the great marketing plans to the general (non-skating) public must be tempered.
 
It's obvious Alysa is in a transition stage. She's going through puberty and trying to adjust to her new body. Everyone just needs to back off a little bit. It happens to all females--time will tell whether this is a death sentence for her career or just a speed bump.

She has time. The Olympics are more than a year away--probably more than that if Rona continues at its current rate. I feel as though her team does need to get her a local coach she can work with directly rather than remotely. Perhaps her father assumed Rona wouldn't be around this long and that's why they made the decision, thinking after a few months she'd be able to join Barkell in Canada. Obviously that's not the case. Like many other skaters who have had to make coaching changes for geographical reasons, it may be time for Alysa to do the same.

The good news is she doesn't look like a complete disaster. She is noticeably faster around the ice which is a plus; she doesn't look labored in her stroking or movements either. We've seen skaters hit growth spurts and suddenly look as though they are skating through mud rather than on ice. Thankfully, that's not the case for Alysa. Her spins aren't as fast but they are still very well positioned. The leg wrap thing may just be a result of doing doubles. She didn't do that during her ISP performances. If she starts jumping triples with a leg wrap we can start to worry.

What it comes down to is Alysa isn't a lost cause yet so breaking out the forks is a bit premature. She has a lot of work to do but she still has time. It really doesn't matter if she can't defend her title this year. This season is basically a throw-away season with competitions cancelled, no junior season, probably no world championships either... Her goal is the next Olympics. It's too soon to count her out. Do I think that quad lutz or triple axel is coming back? Can she beat the top Russians or Japanese? Not right now. But with improved skating skill and her other triples/combos in her arsenal, she could definitely secure a spot on the team and make it to the Olympics which is a monumental accomplishment in itself.

Let's just give her (and all of these skaters) some time, especially this year...
 
Fan Zone article on Audrey Shin by Paige Feigenbaum:
usfigureskatingfanzone.com

Audrey Shin Bursts Onto the Scene at Skate America - U.S. Figure Skating Fan Zone

In a twist of fate, Audrey Shin's breakthrough performance at the 2020 Guaranteed Rate Skate America never would have happened had it not been for the pandemic.
usfigureskatingfanzone.com usfigureskatingfanzone.com
Excerpt:
... "I want to raise my component score. Make sure I have more difficult entries and transitions into my jumps and even spins," she said. "Making sure I skate like a senior lady and really perform for the judges and fans. And, just staying consistent and cleaning up my jumps and making sure I can get good GOEs on each and every element."
To keep up with the rising talent of ladies skaters in the U.S. and around the world, Shin has been hard at work on adding a triple Axel and a quadruple toe loop to her box of tricks.
"I am working on the triple Axel jump and the quad toe jump. Toe is my favorite jump, so I decided why not try some quad toes? I've been doing a lot off the harness. I only work on the harness 10 minutes a day," she said. "I've been landing some on one foot, but it's still cheated. My goal is to get it clean and hopefully put it in competition soon."
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The other thing is that this program was under spotlights. Spotlights make it a lot harder to do your jumps. Especially if she is fixing/changing her technique she might not want to be trying triples under the lights. I don't see this as any reason to panic. In the ISP programs her triples looked a little off but much better than other skaters were after coaching changes and/or growth spurts.
 
I think we need to delete this year! Everyone and everything is just nuts. Alysa and her father made a coaching change based on the world being stable. Their plan may have been great had she been able to be with the people who were coaching her.

And that is not taking into account what havoc the pandemic may have wraught with her family and the other kids. And economically.... I am in the legal field and our income is down 84%


"May you live in interesting times" is an English expression that is claimed to be a translation of a traditional Chinese curse. While seemingly a blessing, the expression is normally used ironically; life is better in "uninteresting times" of peace and tranquility than in "interesting" ones, which are usually times of trouble
Well it is interesting....sort of.
 
Sylvia said:
Someone who looks like she is going through a tough time with her skating right now; people showing some empathy might be nice.
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I just watched it and I think we can be truthful and still have empathy for her.

She looks so much taller and older...did she grow a lot? I am trying to be respectful as possible however it’s really hard to ignore her physical changes which I’m sure has affected her skating. This is a good year as any to go through a growth spurt.

were the doubles on purpose? Or she can’t land the triples? I don’t really follow her so I’m not sure what’s going on.
 
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