analia

Well-Known Member
Messages
532
I don’t think there is any really great benefit from hyping a junior skater as the next great thing. It didn’t help Caroline Zhang or Gracie Gold much. If you look at the Zhang/Flatt/Nagasu/Wagner junior era, Ashley was the least hyped of anyone yet turned out to have unarguably the most successful career of the 4 skaters, and I think the lack of hype and attention worked to her benefit.

I don’t think it would have been scandalous for Mariah Belle to have won nationals last year. Now Alysa Lui has so much pressure and she grew so much and can’t land triple jumps right now. I think it’s better to be under the radar so young and I really think 13 year olds should not be skating against 24 year olds. That’s just crazy.

There are skaters like Michelle and Sasha who were super hyped as juniors and able to able to transition without much trouble but it’s not like that under the current system it seems.

With the Russian ladies, it’s a new 15 year old every year with reigning Olympic And world champs being washed up at 18.

Sad.
You are hyped because you are good. Wagner was never hyped because she was not a great junior and not really that brilliant of a senior either. Gracie Gold hardly had a junior career but the hype she got once she entered world scene was definitely merited. Hyping really has nothing to do with how young you are discovered or how well your career goes. Some people are just unlucky as far as puberty and other things go.
 

Frau Muller

Everything is beautiful at the ballet!
Messages
12,246
You are hyped because you are good. Wagner was never hyped because she was not a great junior and not really that brilliant of a senior either. Gracie Gold hardly had a junior career but the hype she got once she entered world scene was definitely merited. Hyping really has nothing to do with how young you are discovered or how well your career goes. Some people are just unlucky as far as puberty and other things go.

You are hyped because you do something great with the physique that you have at a given moment. Like boy sopranos at the Vienna Boys Chorus... let’s cheer those lads’ angelic voices until they mature and the voices change. Their recordings continue after they leave the chorus. Several move on to other facets of the music world (conductors Clement Krauss & Hans Richter). Others become lawyers, doctors, businessmen, etc.
 
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kwanatic

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Messages
2,735
I think a lot of us were spoiled by the longevity of skaters who competed for 10+ years at the elite level. Unfortunately, with the state of women's (or rather girls') skating nowadays, longevity isn't common and doesn't seem to be as important as it once was. It's all about win as much as you can as fast as you can because once puberty hits, you'll likely have a year or two left before you are put out to pasture. The fact that Elizaveta Tuktamysheva won COR nearly 10 years after winning her first senior event is amazing and a testament to her longevity.

The Russians are pushing the sport technically and sort of ruining it fundamentally:slinkaway. They are dominating right now. Yes, progress is great and it's cool to see the women's event have a few triple axels and quads...but ultimately what we end up with are half-baked young skaters winning the major titles. They may have the difficult jumps and spins but they lack skating skills/maturity/artistry/style/etc., things that tend to develop fully as a skater gets older. Before they have time to mature into a complete skater, two more 15 year old have popped up. Add to that the bad technique that doesn't age well and what you end up with is a bunch of "washed up" 17 and 18 year olds who are pushed to the back of the bunch, plagued with injuries or forced into retirement.

There are 18+ year old skaters who have excellent content on top of strong artistry, skating skills, etc. but, because they lack a quad or 3A, they are virtually shut out from the major titles or even a medal. For this reason I do think the age limit for seniors should be raised to 17 years old, but I doubt if that will ever happen.
 

sk9tingfan

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3,246
The programs are pretty weak but I think if she can pull off a clean performance she'll get the title. The judges really wanted to give it to her last season but Alysa's technical content made it impossible.
Well, this may be Mariah's year. Alysa's battle with puberty will most likely interfere with defending her title or even attaining the podium. If Alysa had to select a year to run amok of such change, this was it. She was shielded from potential embarrassment at the JGP and Junior Worlds. Nationals will be interesting..... :watch:
 

Natanielle825

Active Member
Messages
97
I'd actually lean more towards Bradie winning this year. The competition is virtual, so crowd appeal won't count for anything. Mariah has better skating skills and performance, but those might not help as much if it's filmed the same way as ISP challenge. Though I guess the judges can just award those based on reputation. Mariah hasn't been jumping so consistently, Bradie hasn't either but if she's a little better like at Skate America she might take it.
 

UGG

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Messages
2,393
You are hyped because you are good. Wagner was never hyped because she was not a great junior and not really that brilliant of a senior either. Gracie Gold hardly had a junior career but the hype she got once she entered world scene was definitely merited. Hyping really has nothing to do with how young you are discovered or how well your career goes. Some people are just unlucky as far as puberty and other things go.
Well she won bronze at Junior worlds and silver at junior GPF. That’s pretty good...it was just that Zhang was blowing everyone out of the water from what I remember
 

Vagabond

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Messages
17,208
I'd actually lean more towards Bradie winning this year. The competition is virtual, so crowd appeal won't count for anything. Mariah has better skating skills and performance, but those might not help as much if it's filmed the same way as ISP challenge.
As of now, the competition will be live at the same venue in Las Vegas where Skate America has been held for the past two seasons. There will not be an audience, but there will be a competition in one spot before a Technical Panel and judges.
 

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
Messages
62,936
Links to Team USA bios for the Junior ladies currently listed in the ISP (2020 Junior Nationals placement included):

Isabeau Levito J2 at Nationals (2019 Asian Open FS Trophy, bronze in Adv. Novice)
Calista Choi J3 (2019 JGP France, 12th) - registered originally for a Championship Series comp. in Senior
Isabelle Inthisone J4 (4th & 10th in 2 JGPs last year) - registered originally for a Championship Series comp. in Senior
Kate Wang J5 (2020 YOG, 13th; 6th & 11th in 2 JGPs last year)
Tamnhi Huynh J6 (2020 Challenge Cup, 6th in Jr.)
Elsa Cheng J7 (2020 Bavarian Open, silver in Jr. Group 1; 2019 Golden Spin of Zagreb, 4th in Jr.)
Maryn Pierce J8
Jessica Lin J10 (2019 JGP Lake Placid, 8th)
Hannah Herrera J15 (2020 Challenge Cup, 4th in Jr.)
Alena Budko - registered originally for a Championship Series comp. in Senior
Sofia Frank
Hannah Lofton
Audrey Meredith
Haley Scott
Clare Seo
Adele Zheng

In Athlete High Performance Development Pool:
Mia Kalin J13 (2019 Asian Open FS Trophy, silver in Adv. Novice)

12 Junior ladies will qualify for 2021 Nationals.

ETA:

Lindsay Thorngren J1 at Nationals (2020 Jr. Worlds, 26th; 2019 JGP Poland, 8th) - ranked 9th overall in Senior ISP Points Challenge/4th among those without a bye to Nationals in Senior so already has qualified for 2021 Nationals, along with Liu, Bell, Tennell, Chen, Glenn, Shin, Andrews, Kalyan (9 byes total; 9 spots to be filled).
 
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kwanatic

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,735
I agree, skating is just not the same in singles. Too much focus on trying to get the 3A and quads, not enough on artistry and beautiful storytelling on ice. The Russians are ruining it.
That's the main reason I started checking out the other disciplines last season. I've really fallen in love with ice dancing:love: I hate not really knowing exactly what to look for on the technical side but I find myself enjoying the performances 100% more than I enjoy watching the ladies. I also started paying more attention to men and pairs which are easier for me to follow technically and both more exciting and enjoyable to watch than ladies.
 

kwanatic

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,735
I'd actually lean more towards Bradie winning this year. The competition is virtual, so crowd appeal won't count for anything. Mariah has better skating skills and performance, but those might not help as much if it's filmed the same way as ISP challenge. Though I guess the judges can just award those based on reputation. Mariah hasn't been jumping so consistently, Bradie hasn't either but if she's a little better like at Skate America she might take it.

I think the fact that Bradie lost to Mariah (who really wasn't all that great at SA) speaks volumes about where they are in the judges' eyes. I think it will be easier for Mariah to win this year than it would any other year so I hope she's able to seize the opportunity.
 
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AngieNikodinovLove

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,470
I think a lot of us were spoiled by the longevity of skaters who competed for 10+ years at the elite level. Unfortunately, with the state of women's (or rather girls') skating nowadays, longevity isn't common and doesn't seem to be as important as it once was. It's all about win as much as you can as fast as you can because once puberty hits, you'll likely have a year or two left before you are put out to pasture. The fact that Elizaveta Tuktamysheva won COR nearly 10 years after winning her first senior event is amazing and a testament to her longevity.

The Russians are pushing the sport technically and sort of ruining it fundamentally:slinkaway. They are dominating right now. Yes, progress is great and it's cool to see the women's event have a few triple axels and quads...but ultimately what we end up with are half-baked young skaters winning the major titles. They may have the difficult jumps and spins but they lack skating skills/maturity/artistry/style/etc., things that tend to develop fully as a skater gets older. Before they have time to mature into a complete skater, two more 15 year old have popped up. Add to that the bad technique that doesn't age well and what you end up with is a bunch of "washed up" 17 and 18 year olds who are pushed to the back of the bunch, plagued with injuries or forced into retirement.

There are 18+ year old skaters who have excellent content on top of strong artistry, skating skills, etc. but, because they lack a quad or 3A, they are virtually shut out from the major titles or even a medal. For this reason I do think the age limit for seniors should be raised to 17 years old, but I doubt if that will ever happen.

I agree with just about everything you said.

I wish in the senior world they would limit how many jumps you can do and put focus back on figure skating and not Ringling brothers jumping. That’s not what brought me to the sport anyway

They could leave the junior world pretty much alone and unstructured and have them jump quads and whatever until their cartilage is All but gone. Lolz
 

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
Messages
62,936
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Natanielle825

Active Member
Messages
97
As of now, the competition will be live at the same venue in Las Vegas where Skate America has been held for the past two seasons. There will not be an audience, but there will be a competition in one spot before a Technical Panel and judges.
My misunderstanding, thanks.
I think the fact that Bradie lost to Mariah (who really wasn't all that great at SA) speaks volumes about where they are in the judges' eyes. I think it will be easier for Mariah to win this year than it would any other year so I hope she's able to seize the opportunity.
Another mistake, I remembered that Bradie had won.
 

euterpe

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,413
Well she [Gracie Gold] won bronze at Junior worlds and silver at junior GPF. That’s pretty good...it was just that Zhang was blowing everyone out of the water from what I remember

Gracie won SILVER at 2012 JW.


1​
Julia LIPNITSKAIARUS
2​
Gracie GOLDUSA
3​
Adelina SOTNIKOVARUS
4​
Satoko MIYAHARAJPN
5​
Zijun LICHN
6​
Polina SHELEPENRUS
 

UGG

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,393
Gracie won SILVER at 2012 JW.


1​
Julia LIPNITSKAIARUS
2​
Gracie GOLDUSA
3​
Adelina SOTNIKOVARUS
4​
Satoko MIYAHARAJPN
5​
Zijun LICHN
6​
Polina SHELEPENRUS
I was talking about Ashley Wagner. My original post does not have Gracie’s name in parenthesis so not sure how that has happened...Gracie also did not compete against Zhang as a junior.
 

Frau Muller

Everything is beautiful at the ballet!
Messages
12,246
I was talking about Ashley Wagner. My original post does not have Gracie’s name in parenthesis so not sure how that has happened...Gracie also did not compete against Zhang as a junior.
Exactly. Gracie was never in the “teenybopper brigade”... she was already a whopping 16 years old when she made her first big splash at a JGP event in autumn 2011.
 

AxelAnnie

Like a small boat on the ocean...
Messages
12,437
I was talking about Ashley Wagner. My original post does not have Gracie’s name in parenthesis so not sure how that has happened...Gracie also did not compete against Zhang as a junior.
Thank you for clearing that up.......I thought I had lost my mind.
 

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