U.S. Ladies [#29]: Skating with Adjusted Vision

[analia]

I don’t think there is any really great benefit from hyping a junior skater as the next great thing. It didn’t help Caroline Zhang or Gracie Gold much. If you look at the Zhang/Flatt/Nagasu/Wagner junior era, Ashley was the least hyped of anyone yet turned out to have unarguably the most successful career of the 4 skaters, and I think the lack of hype and attention worked to her benefit.

I don’t think it would have been scandalous for Mariah Belle to have won nationals last year. Now Alysa Lui has so much pressure and she grew so much and can’t land triple jumps right now. I think it’s better to be under the radar so young and I really think 13 year olds should not be skating against 24 year olds. That’s just crazy.

There are skaters like Michelle and Sasha who were super hyped as juniors and able to able to transition without much trouble but it’s not like that under the current system it seems.

With the Russian ladies, it’s a new 15 year old every year with reigning Olympic And world champs being washed up at 18.

Sad.

You are hyped because you are good. Wagner was never hyped because she was not a great junior and not really that brilliant of a senior either. Gracie Gold hardly had a junior career but the hype she got once she entered world scene was definitely merited. Hyping really has nothing to do with how young you are discovered or how well your career goes. Some people are just unlucky as far as puberty and other things go.

 

[Frau Muller]

You are hyped because you are good. Wagner was never hyped because she was not a great junior and not really that brilliant of a senior either. Gracie Gold hardly had a junior career but the hype she got once she entered world scene was definitely merited. Hyping really has nothing to do with how young you are discovered or how well your career goes. Some people are just unlucky as far as puberty and other things go.

You are hyped because you do something great with the physique that you have at a given moment. Like boy sopranos at the Vienna Boys Chorus... let’s cheer those lads’ angelic voices until they mature and the voices change. Their recordings continue after they leave the chorus. Several move on to other facets of the music world (conductors Clement Krauss & Hans Richter). Others become lawyers, doctors, businessmen, etc.

 

[flyingsit]

Maybe this year will be Bell's year to stand on the top of the podium.

Not likely with the terrible programs she has this season.

 

[kwanatic]

I think a lot of us were spoiled by the longevity of skaters who competed for 10+ years at the elite level. Unfortunately, with the state of women's (or rather girls') skating nowadays, longevity isn't common and doesn't seem to be as important as it once was. It's all about win as much as you can as fast as you can because once puberty hits, you'll likely have a year or two left before you are put out to pasture. The fact that Elizaveta Tuktamysheva won COR nearly 10 years after winning her first senior event is amazing and a testament to her longevity.

The Russians are pushing the sport technically and sort of ruining it fundamentally. They are dominating right now. Yes, progress is great and it's cool to see the women's event have a few triple axels and quads...but ultimately what we end up with are half-baked young skaters winning the major titles. They may have the difficult jumps and spins but they lack skating skills/maturity/artistry/style/etc., things that tend to develop fully as a skater gets older. Before they have time to mature into a complete skater, two more 15 year old have popped up. Add to that the bad technique that doesn't age well and what you end up with is a bunch of "washed up" 17 and 18 year olds who are pushed to the back of the bunch, plagued with injuries or forced into retirement.

There are 18+ year old skaters who have excellent content on top of strong artistry, skating skills, etc. but, because they lack a quad or 3A, they are virtually shut out from the major titles or even a medal. For this reason I do think the age limit for seniors should be raised to 17 years old, but I doubt if that will ever happen.

 

[kwanatic]

Not likely with the terrible programs she has this season.

The programs are pretty weak but I think if she can pull off a clean performance she'll get the title. The judges really wanted to give it to her last season but Alysa's technical content made it impossible.

 

[sk9tingfan]

The programs are pretty weak but I think if she can pull off a clean performance she'll get the title. The judges really wanted to give it to her last season but Alysa's technical content made it impossible.

Well, this may be Mariah's year. Alysa's battle with puberty will most likely interfere with defending her title or even attaining the podium. If Alysa had to select a year to run amok of such change, this was it. She was shielded from potential embarrassment at the JGP and Junior Worlds. Nationals will be interesting.....

 

[Natanielle825]

I'd actually lean more towards Bradie winning this year. The competition is virtual, so crowd appeal won't count for anything. Mariah has better skating skills and performance, but those might not help as much if it's filmed the same way as ISP challenge. Though I guess the judges can just award those based on reputation. Mariah hasn't been jumping so consistently, Bradie hasn't either but if she's a little better like at Skate America she might take it.

 

[UGG]

You are hyped because you are good. Wagner was never hyped because she was not a great junior and not really that brilliant of a senior either. Gracie Gold hardly had a junior career but the hype she got once she entered world scene was definitely merited. Hyping really has nothing to do with how young you are discovered or how well your career goes. Some people are just unlucky as far as puberty and other things go.

Well she won bronze at Junior worlds and silver at junior GPF. That’s pretty good...it was just that Zhang was blowing everyone out of the water from what I remember

 

[Vagabond]

I'd actually lean more towards Bradie winning this year. The competition is virtual, so crowd appeal won't count for anything. Mariah has better skating skills and performance, but those might not help as much if it's filmed the same way as ISP challenge.

As of now, the competition will be live at the same venue in Las Vegas where Skate America has been held for the past two seasons. There will not be an audience, but there will be a competition in one spot before a Technical Panel and judges.

 

[Lemonade20]

I agree, skating is just not the same in singles. Too much focus on trying to get the 3A and quads, not enough on artistry and beautiful storytelling on ice. The Russians are ruining it.

 

[Sylvia]

Links to Team USA bios for the Junior ladies currently listed in the ISP (2020 Junior Nationals placement included):

Isabeau Levito J2 at Nationals (2019 Asian Open FS Trophy, bronze in Adv. Novice)
Calista Choi J3 (2019 JGP France, 12th) - registered originally for a Championship Series comp. in Senior
Isabelle Inthisone J4 (4th & 10th in 2 JGPs last year) - registered originally for a Championship Series comp. in Senior
Kate Wang J5 (2020 YOG, 13th; 6th & 11th in 2 JGPs last year)
Tamnhi Huynh J6 (2020 Challenge Cup, 6th in Jr.)
Elsa Cheng J7 (2020 Bavarian Open, silver in Jr. Group 1; 2019 Golden Spin of Zagreb, 4th in Jr.)
Maryn Pierce J8
Jessica Lin J10 (2019 JGP Lake Placid, 8th)
Hannah Herrera J15 (2020 Challenge Cup, 4th in Jr.)
Alena Budko - registered originally for a Championship Series comp. in Senior
Sofia Frank
Hannah Lofton
Audrey Meredith
Haley Scott
Clare Seo
Adele Zheng

In Athlete High Performance Development Pool:
Mia Kalin J13 (2019 Asian Open FS Trophy, silver in Adv. Novice)

12 Junior ladies will qualify for 2021 Nationals.

ETA:

Lindsay Thorngren J1 at Nationals (2020 Jr. Worlds, 26th; 2019 JGP Poland, 8th) - ranked 9th overall in Senior ISP Points Challenge/4th among those without a bye to Nationals in Senior so already has qualified for 2021 Nationals, along with Liu, Bell, Tennell, Chen, Glenn, Shin, Andrews, Kalyan (9 byes total; 9 spots to be filled).

 

[kwanatic]

I agree, skating is just not the same in singles. Too much focus on trying to get the 3A and quads, not enough on artistry and beautiful storytelling on ice. The Russians are ruining it.

That's the main reason I started checking out the other disciplines last season. I've really fallen in love with ice dancing I hate not really knowing exactly what to look for on the technical side but I find myself enjoying the performances 100% more than I enjoy watching the ladies. I also started paying more attention to men and pairs which are easier for me to follow technically and both more exciting and enjoyable to watch than ladies.

 

[kwanatic]

I'd actually lean more towards Bradie winning this year. The competition is virtual, so crowd appeal won't count for anything. Mariah has better skating skills and performance, but those might not help as much if it's filmed the same way as ISP challenge. Though I guess the judges can just award those based on reputation. Mariah hasn't been jumping so consistently, Bradie hasn't either but if she's a little better like at Skate America she might take it.

I think the fact that Bradie lost to Mariah (who really wasn't all that great at SA) speaks volumes about where they are in the judges' eyes. I think it will be easier for Mariah to win this year than it would any other year so I hope she's able to seize the opportunity.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I think a lot of us were spoiled by the longevity of skaters who competed for 10+ years at the elite level. Unfortunately, with the state of women's (or rather girls') skating nowadays, longevity isn't common and doesn't seem to be as important as it once was. It's all about win as much as you can as fast as you can because once puberty hits, you'll likely have a year or two left before you are put out to pasture. The fact that Elizaveta Tuktamysheva won COR nearly 10 years after winning her first senior event is amazing and a testament to her longevity.

The Russians are pushing the sport technically and sort of ruining it fundamentally. They are dominating right now. Yes, progress is great and it's cool to see the women's event have a few triple axels and quads...but ultimately what we end up with are half-baked young skaters winning the major titles. They may have the difficult jumps and spins but they lack skating skills/maturity/artistry/style/etc., things that tend to develop fully as a skater gets older. Before they have time to mature into a complete skater, two more 15 year old have popped up. Add to that the bad technique that doesn't age well and what you end up with is a bunch of "washed up" 17 and 18 year olds who are pushed to the back of the bunch, plagued with injuries or forced into retirement.

There are 18+ year old skaters who have excellent content on top of strong artistry, skating skills, etc. but, because they lack a quad or 3A, they are virtually shut out from the major titles or even a medal. For this reason I do think the age limit for seniors should be raised to 17 years old, but I doubt if that will ever happen.

I agree with just about everything you said.

I wish in the senior world they would limit how many jumps you can do and put focus back on figure skating and not Ringling brothers jumping. That’s not what brought me to the sport anyway

They could leave the junior world pretty much alone and unstructured and have them jump quads and whatever until their cartilage is All but gone. Lolz

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

The Russians are ruining it.

The Russians HAVE ruined it. Sadly,ladies singles is unwatchable.

However,Mariah Bell winning the Nationals could be the precursor to the sport's salvation.

-BB

 

[Tinami Amori]

The Russians HAVE ruined it. Sadly,ladies singles is unwatchable.

need some sugar for your grapes?..

 

[Sylvia]

Noelle Rosa, 12th in Junior Ladies at 2020 U.S. Nationals, is listed for Italian Nationals in the Kiss & Cry forum & will debut at the Grand Premio Italia in Trento this weekend - she was profiled in an Olympic Channel video feature last year (linked in a previous U.S. Ladies thread here): https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...eving-2020-vision.106360/page-16#post-5719003

 

[Natanielle825]

As of now, the competition will be live at the same venue in Las Vegas where Skate America has been held for the past two seasons. There will not be an audience, but there will be a competition in one spot before a Technical Panel and judges.

My misunderstanding, thanks.

I think the fact that Bradie lost to Mariah (who really wasn't all that great at SA) speaks volumes about where they are in the judges' eyes. I think it will be easier for Mariah to win this year than it would any other year so I hope she's able to seize the opportunity.

Another mistake, I remembered that Bradie had won.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Another mistake, I remembered that Bradie had won.

You may be remembering that Tennell was first in the FS. (There was only a 1.53 difference between 1st and 4th, and it wasn't enough to make up a 3+ point difference from the SP.)

 

[euterpe]

Well she [Gracie Gold] won bronze at Junior worlds and silver at junior GPF. That’s pretty good...it was just that Zhang was blowing everyone out of the water from what I remember

Gracie won SILVER at 2012 JW.

1​	Julia LIPNITSKAIA	RUS
2​	Gracie GOLD	USA
3​	Adelina SOTNIKOVA	RUS
4​	Satoko MIYAHARA	JPN
5​	Zijun LI	CHN
6​	Polina SHELEPEN	RUS

 

[UGG]

Gracie won SILVER at 2012 JW.

1​	Julia LIPNITSKAIA	RUS
2​	Gracie GOLD	USA
3​	Adelina SOTNIKOVA	RUS
4​	Satoko MIYAHARA	JPN
5​	Zijun LI	CHN
6​	Polina SHELEPEN	RUS

I was talking about Ashley Wagner. My original post does not have Gracie’s name in parenthesis so not sure how that has happened...Gracie also did not compete against Zhang as a junior.

 

[Sylvia]

USFS' 2+ minute video that was posted last month: https://www.instagram.com/tv/CHtZeASA3uk/

But, Do You Really?

How well do @amberglenniceskater and @bradietennell really know each other

 

[Frau Muller]

I was talking about Ashley Wagner. My original post does not have Gracie’s name in parenthesis so not sure how that has happened...Gracie also did not compete against Zhang as a junior.

Exactly. Gracie was never in the “teenybopper brigade”... she was already a whopping 16 years old when she made her first big splash at a JGP event in autumn 2011.

 

[AxelAnnie]

I was talking about Ashley Wagner. My original post does not have Gracie’s name in parenthesis so not sure how that has happened...Gracie also did not compete against Zhang as a junior.

Thank you for clearing that up.......I thought I had lost my mind.

 

[Sylvia]

Mariah Bell is answering #FanFriday questions via USFS' Instagram stories today: https://www.instagram.com/p/CIYilPxA6ua/

 

[DreamSkates]

Not likely with the terrible programs she has this season.

Compare her scores with Tennell and Liu.

 

[DreamSkates]

I agree, skating is just not the same in singles. Too much focus on trying to get the 3A and quads, not enough on artistry and beautiful storytelling on ice. The Russians are ruining it.

The ISU is ruining it by allowing too many points for the quads and 3As. Why not award more points for spins and footwork? That has likely been discussed before in this forum.

 

[Lemonade20]

The ISU is ruining it by allowing too many points for the quads and 3As. Why not award more points for spins and footwork? That has likely been discussed before in this forum.

So true, I’d rather see the skaters show off everything they have, not just the jumps. There is too much pressure on them and it’s very damaging. Not just physically but mentally too. We should be judging them as a package and not just breaking it down to elements only.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Some of you, who are complaining about "Russians ruining the FS", why don't you think of how to improve your own skaters, instead of finding ways to hold back Russians........ Those "sour grapes" comments are pathetic...

Not long ago people were complaining that Russians are "too theatrical, too dramatic, we are sick of their mentions of balletic, it's a sport".... So now "it is a sport" and the same people want "more artistry".....

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

Those "sour grapes" comments are pathetic...
Not long ago people were complaining that Russians are "too theatrical, too dramatic, we are sick of their mentions of balletic, it's a sport"

Surely you jest dear. There has NEVER been a balletic Russian ladies single skater. They have either been gymnasts on ice or no-style sloppy truck drivers.

It is not "sour grapes" to make these statements. All we want to see is dynamic,mature artistry set to classical music--not cluttered reductive programs with plastic-faced coaches of which you seem to be so fond of.

-BB