U.S. Ladies [#25]: Method in the Madness

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believed

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I wonder if the supposed bullying is just different expectations versus what Lim was used to in Korea. If she was the top dog at her previous rink and went to California expecting deference, and when she got there not only is she not the top skater/priority, she's not even the top female skater in the rink. "When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."
Hello, why are we placing the onus of “cultural differences” on Eunsoo entirely???
 

eurodance2001

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Someone on Twitter who claims to know the skaters (but it's Twitter, so who knows) says that Adam has taken away Mariah's phone for the duration of the competition. I hope it's true. She does not need to see this.

If true, then good. The levels of hate, vitriol, nastiness, name calling, and threats of violence is beyond comprehension
 

clairecloutier

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I think it was very irresponsible & unprofessional, not to mention unnecessary, for the Washington Post to include Twitter comments from fans in that article. :( This is a potentially serious matter with professional and legal implications, as @VIETgrlTerifa has pointed out. The comments from fans constitute nothing more than gossip and hearsay, there is nothing factual there, they have no true bearing or significance on the case, but are just a form of sensationalism. :(
 

VGThuy

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What flyingsit describes was not cultural differences but differences between being a big fish in your home skating facility and then being among equally big fish or bigger fish at another skating facility.

Also, another thing to add to show damages for Mariah, all those Lim fans spreading #RacistMariahBell on twitter. That’s definitely a showing that her reputation has been damaged.
 

BlueRidge

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I think it was very irresponsible & unprofessional, not to mention unnecessary, for the Washington Post to include Twitter comments from fans in that article. :( This is a potentially serious matter with professional and legal implications, as @VIETgrlTerifa has pointed out. The comments from fans constitute nothing more than gossip and hearsay, there is nothing factual there, they have no true bearing or significance on the case, but are just a form of sensationalism. :(

As a subscriber to the Post, I think I will go send them an email regarding this. It really is not acceptable.
 

forthewin

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So Bell did clip Lim. Raf thought it's accidental. But did she apologize? Does Raf think it's OK to hurt people if it's unintentional? No need to say sorry apparently.
 

VGThuy

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So Bell did clip Lim. Raf thought it's accidental. But did she apologize? Does Raf think it's OK to hurt people if it's unintentional? No need to say sorry apparently.

Was she even made aware of it at the time? Was she prevented from hearing about it and then given the opportunity to deal with it between her and Lim in private before ATS ran amouck and accused her of committing battery with a deadly weapon and spreading it to Korean media outlets and letting skating fans invoke vigilante justice via social media? Did Lim apologize to Bell when in-arena reports said Bell had the right of way and doing her full run through and Lim wasn’t watching out for her to get out of her way? Bell and Lim were most likely sleeping when all of this became huge news in the Western Hemisphere and Europe.
 

Wyliefan

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So Bell did clip Lim. Raf thought it's accidental. But did she apologize? Does Raf think it's OK to hurt people if it's unintentional? No need to say sorry apparently.

Apparently she has said sorry.

More information
https://www.france24.com/en/20190321-isu-launch-probe-after-korean-skater-injured-american-rival
KSU lodged an official complaint. ISU will meet today to discuss the incident.

-

Update:
https://sports.v.daum.net/v/20190321174052360
ISU meeting was held with representatives from KSU and USFSA. According to the USA officials Mariah was unaware her skate blade had hit Eunsoo and she apologised for the incident. The KSU official said they communicated the apology to Eunsoo (through her agency) and that the agency had accepted it. Both skaters are going to meet and sort things out after the free skate tomorrow. There was no mention of the allegations of bullying.
 

Messalina

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I'm also a WaPo subscriber and plan to write them. I've hated the inclusion of tweets, FB posts and the like as "flavoring" in factual news reports for a long time. Just incendiary and lazy. A respectable news outlet should be ashamed to fan the flames as a way to pad sparse information (report of allegations) that does not merit a full-length article. In this case, the wider the spread of fact-lite rumor and drama in the mainstream press, the more both skaters will be hurt by this. @clairecloutier and @BlueRidge, did you email the author of the piece directly or use WaPo's letter to the editor submission function?
 

forthewin

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I haven't seen anywhere mentions this apology. And how self-centered can you be if you don't notice you clip someone and just walk away. Is it that difficult to say sorry on the spot? Why do people keep finding excuses for a simple bad manner?
 

Debbie S

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Someone on Twitter who claims to know the skaters (but it's Twitter, so who knows) says that Adam has taken away Mariah's phone for the duration of the competition. I hope it's true. She does not need to see this.
Is Adam even in Japan? There isn't any evidence so far on his IG. I do think it's a good idea for Mariah to turn off her social media apps.
 

mackiecat

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I haven't seen anywhere mentions this apology. And how self-centered can you be if you don't notice you clip someone and just walk away. Is it that difficult to say sorry on the spot? Why do people keep finding excuses for a simple bad manner?
Did you not read this??
https://sports.v.daum.net/v/20190321174052360
ISU meeting was held with representatives from KSU and USFSA. According to the USA officials Mariah was unaware her skate blade had hit Eunsoo and she apologised for the incident. The KSU official said they communicated the apology to Eunsoo (through her agency) and that the agency had accepted it. Both skaters are going to meet and sort things out after the free skate tomorrow. There was no mention of the allegations of bullying
 

RoseRed

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I haven't seen anywhere mentions this apology. And how self-centered can you be if you don't notice you clip someone and just walk away. Is it that difficult to say sorry on the spot? Why do people keep finding excuses for a simple bad manner?
Except that @Wyliefan included the mention of the apology????

Why do you seem to determined to see the worst in Mariah here, and ignore everything ATS has done wrong?
 

forthewin

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I'm not defending ATS here. I just find it's odd that people are standing by Bell when it's true that she indeed caused harm to someone and not apologized IN PERSON.If she did that at the first time, nothing would happened. So she's the starting point of all this mess.
 

VGThuy

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Let's hope this ends it fast.

I agree somewhat but a part of me wonders if Mariah understands how far this has gone and why the USFS is probably looking to avoid an international incident so their other skaters at Worlds will be unaffected here and moving forward and how damaged her reputation is comparing her to Tonya Harding and calling her racist. You even have a poster here who ignored a perfectly valid link provided that stated she was unaware her blade touched Lim (which is not far fetched as the cut wasn’t serious enough to prevent Lim from skating) and you can’t render an apology without being notified you did something and won’t listen to reason because they already judged Mariah guilty and want her to be guilty or something, anything because they feel such anger towards her. This poster won’t be alone.
 

Spun Silver

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I agree somewhat but a part of me wonders if Mariah understands how far this has gone and why the USFS is probably looking to avoid an international incident so their other skaters at Worlds will be unaffected here and moving forward and how damaged her reputation is comparing her to Tonya Harding and calling her racist. You even have a poster here who ignored a perfectly valid link provided that stated she was unaware her blade touched Lim (which is not far fetched as the cut wasn’t serious enough to prevent Lim from skating) and you can’t render an apology without being notified you did something and won’t listen to reason because they already judged Mariah guilty and want her to be guilty or something, anything because they feel such anger towards her. This poster won’t be alone.
I guess you're right. I just hope it can wait until after the free skate. This makes me so sad, for both of them really. Unless the way to make her Korea's next skating superstar is to bash another skater, I just don't see how this does Eunsoo any good. Esp since, as others have noted, she will probably have to change coaches now, when she's been doing so well.

ETA: I hope Mariah (and Eunsoo) can suddenly learn to channel anger/misery/depression into energy because otherwise the FS is going to be very sad for both of them, and their fans.
 

forthewin

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Is Bell really having no responsibilities in all this mess? This is the simple question I'm asking. And USFS said she apologized, well, USFS said a lot of things in the past and covered up a lot of things too. I'm not saying ATS is right. But I don't think you can't make Bell the innocent victim in all this mess.
 

LarrySK8

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I just find it's odd that people are standing by Bell when it's true that she indeed caused harm to someone and not apologized IN PERSON.If she did that at the first time, nothing would happened. So she's the starting point of all this mess.

The skater from Korea was in the wrong, as Mariah was doing a run through and had the right-of-way. The Korean skater is the one who should be apologizing to Mariah for being in the way and she should apologize to her coach and team for not following proper rink etiquette, being in the way and getting herself hurt.
 

VGThuy

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Is Bell really having no responsibilities in all this mess? This is the simple question I'm asking. And USFS said she apologized, well, USFS said a lot of things in the past and covered up a lot of things too. I'm not saying ATS is right. But I don't think you can't make Bell the innocent victim in all this mess.

This is why Mariah should seriously consider pursuing legal action after Worlds. You have people like this who will always see her in this negative light because they have read so much negativity and ATS made well sure to paint this as Bell v. Lim situation where there has to be a "guilty" party and that person is Bell. Her reputation has been severely damaged. I'd argue if Bell just does what USFS tells her to do, they'll be thinking twice sending her to international events when it's close between her and another skater because her reputation has been damaged. What ATS did was beyond questioning Bell, they flat out accused her of committing a violent crime with no evidence and arguably with reckless disregard for the truth, pushed a bullying narrative that wasn't even addressed by KSU, and made well sure to push this story omitting details that paint a complete picture (like how Bell had the right-of-way and Lim was in Bell's way) to any Korean news outlet existing which then got picked up by American media and social media who did the most to punish Bell. This is why ATS is being taken to task. What Bell may have did (failed to apologize in a timely manner though there are questions of whether she was even made aware of what happened and was given the opportunity to speak to Lim personally or if ATS and Lim's handlers refused to allow Bell access to Lim) pales in comparison to what Bell went through.
 

forthewin

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The skater from Korea was in the wrong, as Mariah was doing a run through and had the right-of-way. The Korean skater is the one who should be apologizing to Mariah for being in the way and she should apologize to her coach and team for not following proper rink etiquette, being in the way and getting herself hurt.
Well, the way you keep referring Lim as the skater from Korea does send out a tone you're a racist and bully, ironically.
 
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