U.S. Ladies [#25]: Method in the Madness

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Rukia

A Southern, hot-blooded temperamental individual
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Well, the way you keep referring Lim as the skater from Korea does send out a tone you're a racist and bully, ironically.
I agree with you about that, but it doesn't make the rest of their content less true. I too have had to get quickly out of the way of people doing their runthroughs even when standing at the boards. Everyone knows you do what you have to do to get out of their way.
 

Skittl1321

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Is Bell really having no responsibilities in all this mess? This is the simple question I'm asking. And USFS said she apologized, well, USFS said a lot of things in the past and covered up a lot of things too. I'm not saying ATS is right. But I don't think you can't make Bell the innocent victim in all this mess.

What else should Bell do other than apologize?

I haven't seen a video of it happen; but if she was in a run-through, she had right of way. Most skaters just get up and keep going; they only get one shot at a run through. If she didn't realize she clipped her with her blade, it makes sense she didn't say much then. Crashes, unfortunately, happen. If they weren't in a run through I'd expect more "oh, are you OK" chatter. So Bell might have fault, or she might not.

But either way, if it was unintentional, what else should she do?
 

JamieElena

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I'm also a WaPo subscriber and plan to write them. I've hated the inclusion of tweets, FB posts and the like as "flavoring" in factual news reports for a long time. Just incendiary and lazy. A respectable news outlet should be ashamed to fan the flames as a way to pad sparse information (report of allegations) that does not merit a full-length article. In this case, the wider the spread of fact-lite rumor and drama in the mainstream press, the more both skaters will be hurt by this. @clairecloutier and @BlueRidge, did you email the author of the piece directly or use WaPo's letter to the editor submission function?

I sent it to the author and the sports editors:

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
 

forthewin

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Seriously, people on here are defending Bell like they know her in person. You are not! And let me ask this, why do people suggest Lim change coach after this mess? Because deep down you know she might be bullied this time for sure. So yes, even people as sweet and innocent as Bell and her gang, they're capable of mean things.
 

Skittl1321

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The skater from Korea was in the wrong, as Mariah was doing a run through and had the right-of-way. The Korean skater is the one who should be apologizing to Mariah for being in the way and she should apologize to her coach and team for not following proper rink etiquette, being in the way and getting herself hurt.

I understand you have stated a reason to not use "the skater from Korea"'s name; but it you are putting forth good information and it is being lost in your delivery. The insistence on not using her name is damaging your credibility as someone who can commentate on how figure skating works and is making you come across very poorly. I'd suggest reconsidering how you address the skaters in your posts.
 

Spun Silver

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11,671
Seriously, people on here are defending Bell like they know her in person. You are not! And let me ask this, why do people suggest Lim change coach after this mess? Because deep down you know she might be bullied this time for sure. So yes, even people as sweet and innocent as Bell and her gang, they're capable of mean things.
No, that's NOT the reason. Eunsoo's team has made an international incident out of this. Emotions are running high all around right now, and imagine how people will feel if either or both girls perform badly in the free. It's just too much to ask that everything go right back to normal. If Raf can make that happen he's more of a wizard than I already credit him for being. Eunsoo's team will probably yank her out of there.
 

VGThuy

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Seriously, people on here are defending Bell like they know her in person. You are not! And let me ask this, why do people suggest Lim change coach after this mess? Because deep down you know she might be bullied this time for sure. So yes, even people as sweet and innocent as Bell and her gang, they're capable of mean things.

Because the facts have been revealed to be different from what the initial reporting was from ATS. Raf denied knowing about any bullying which is what ATS also stated. KSU didn't even bring that subject up. Bell has been attacked mercilessly on social media as have anybody even suggesting to take a "wait and see" approach. She has now been the subject of numerous American reports comparing her to Tonya Harding and running with the ATS narrative even though more things have been cleared up. Why are you so unwilling to see this as an accident and need to paint Mariah as evil as possible?
 

jiejie

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I'm not defending ATS here. I just find it's odd that people are standing by Bell when it's true that she indeed caused harm to someone and not apologized IN PERSON.If she did that at the first time, nothing would happened. So she's the starting point of all this mess.

Oh yes you are defending ATS and the entire Eunsoo camp. Your definition of what is true = what you want to believe. Which as the story is gradually unfolding, is nowhere near reality. The reality of it is that Eunsoo is the starting point of the mess, not Mariah. It is Eunsoo who needs to apologize to Mariah for being in the way of her program run-through. Hopefully she already has or will do so after the competition.
 

forthewin

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What else should Bell do other than apologize?

I haven't seen a video of it happen; but if she was in a run-through, she had right of way. Most skaters just get up and keep going; they only get one shot at a run through. If she didn't realize she clipped her with her blade, it makes sense she didn't say much then. Crashes, unfortunately, happen. If they weren't in a run through I'd expect more "oh, are you OK" chatter. So Bell might have fault, or she might not.

But either way, if it was unintentional, what else should she do?
Gosh, it's not like Lim standing in the middle of the rink. She was at the board and Bell came from her behind. If people can't even acknowledge who's in the wrong of the incident itself, I have to say there's nothing left to say really.
 

jiejie

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Is Bell really having no responsibilities in all this mess? This is the simple question I'm asking. And USFS said she apologized, well, USFS said a lot of things in the past and covered up a lot of things too. I'm not saying ATS is right. But I don't think you can't make Bell the innocent victim in all this mess.

Yes, it's looking more and more like Mariah Bell is the innocent victim of this mess, caused by Team Eunsoo/ATS.
 

forthewin

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Because the facts have been revealed to be different from what the initial reporting was from ATS. Raf denied knowing about any bullying which is what ATS also stated. KSU didn't even bring that subject up. Bell has been attacked mercilessly on social media as have anybody even suggesting to take a "wait and see" approach. She has now been the subject of numerous American reports comparing her to Tonya Harding and running with the ATS narrative even though more things have been cleared up. Why are you so unwilling to see this as an accident and need to paint Mariah as evil as possible?
I'm not painting anyone evil here. I'm simply saying it's self-centered and bad-mannered of Bell to not apologize in person for the incident.
 

VGThuy

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I'm not painting anyone evil here. I'm simply saying it's self-centered and bad-mannered of Bell to not apologize in person for the incident.

Even though she was unaware of the incident as her blade most likely grazed Lim and Bell in the middle of her run through didn't notice it? That CAN happen and actual skaters have testified here that it happens. Do you know if Bell was made aware and given the opportunity to apologize to Lim personally and then just rejected it? If that comes out, then yes I can see your point about "self-centered" and "bad-mannered" Bell unless Bell thinks Lim was in the wrong. However, you are using inflammatory language about Bell anyway, refused to acknowledge an apology given, and have been posting all kinds of things in the hopes you can convince people Bell is the ONLY guilty party. Now you're saying Bell and co. are going to "bully" Lim after this.
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
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I don't think either skater is to blame here. Mariah knicked Eun Soo without knowing they had made contact, Eun Soo was hurt and didn't realize Mariah was unaware so was upset that Mariah seemed to just ignore it.

This is called a misunderstanding between two people.

It is other people who have apparently acted in ways that appear to be ill-motivated.
 

forthewin

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Tell me again, why do USFS issue an apology on behalf of Bell if she's the innocent victim here? I'm so confused. Americans are so right and sue-happy on everything, why should they let this golden opportunity slip away? Tell me more.
 

Rukia

A Southern, hot-blooded temperamental individual
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I don't think either skater is to blame here. Mariah knicked Eun Soo without knowing they had made contact, Eun Soo was hurt and didn't realize Mariah was unaware so was upset that Mariah seemed to just ignore it.

This is called a misunderstanding between two people.

It is other people who have apparently acted in ways that appear to be ill-motivated.
This.

I hope they both have beautiful long programs and both skate clean. I enjoy both skaters greatly, and it stinks that they had to deal with something like this during what is probably their most important competition of the season.
 

VGThuy

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Tell me again, why do USFS issue an apology on behalf of Bell if she's the innocent victim here? I'm so confused. Americans are so right and sue-happy on everything, why should they let this golden opportunity slip away? Tell me more.

They probably apologized for the grazing. Most people acknowledged that the grazing happened. Whether or not you believe Bell was unaware of it at the time and then was prevented from apologizing to Lim because ATS decided to run this story, that doesn't mean what ATS did was right. I tell you, if someone damaged your reputation internationally where mainstream media picked up the story and quoted that person with very inflammatory statements about you with malice or recklessness and didn't do anything to make it right, you'd probably want to sue the person who made it happen too.
 

personwhoishere

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Someone on Twitter who claims to know the skaters (but it's Twitter, so who knows) says that Adam has taken away Mariah's phone for the duration of the competition. I hope it's true. She does not need to see this.
Is Adam at worlds? I had no idea.
 

barbarafan

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4,800
Is Bell really having no responsibilities in all this mess? This is the simple question I'm asking. And USFS said she apologized, well, USFS said a lot of things in the past and covered up a lot of things too. I'm not saying ATS is right. But I don't think you can't make Bell the innocent victim in all this mess.
It say USFS spoke to Maria and she said she did not know she had hit Ensoo with her skate blade. She passed on apologies to Ensoo via USFS at that time. They will meet at some point after free skate. Apparently the video does not show conclusively one way or the other if it was deliberate or not.
 

mtnskater

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1,983
Wow, I’m really disappointed in this mess. Because the allegations were originally brought by an agent/management company they are suspect right from the start. Such actions are not their role. Particularly when financial gain is at stake. The Korean federation should have been the only entity to speak for Eunsoo. It’s too bad for me as a fan of both of these ladies. It will now color my view of Eunsoo going forward unfortunately. I do think she may need to leave the RAF training camp after this nightmare she or those around her with bad judgement caused. I was a fan of Yuna Kim too but the over zealous Korean fans of hers really turned me off. I think this will backfire on Eunsoo. Obviously she wasn’t that affected by the blade incident because she skated a perfect short program. She was obligated to get out of Mariah’s way during her run through. It’s even possible she was trying to hamper Mariah’s run through. All skaters know it is your obligation to do whatever it takes to get out of the way of someone doing a run through.With Mariah and Eunsoo so closely matched I wonder if there is a motive to take Mariah out or at least psych her out. I’m sure NBC will now talk about it on the broadcast. Sad turn of events!
 

LarrySK8

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488
Well, the way you keep referring Lim as the skater from Korea does send out a tone you're a racist and bully, ironically.

I'm not painting anyone evil here. I'm simply saying it's self-centered and bad-mannered of Bell to not apologize in person for the incident.

That's utter nonsense and says more about you than anything else. The Korean skater was in the wrong and she should be the one to apologize to Mariah for getting in the way during a run through.
 

jiejie

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815
Tell me again, why do USFS issue an apology on behalf of Bell if she's the innocent victim here? I'm so confused. Americans are so right and sue-happy on everything, why should they let this golden opportunity slip away? Tell me more.

Bell issued an apology through USFS. With the competition still underway, she is in no position to make public statements or attend meetings herself. Nor is Eunsoo. As for suing, my friend, we're not even 48 hours into this situation and there is going to be plenty of "golden opportunity" as you put it, for lawyers to go after ATS if that is what Bell/Raf/USFS want to do. Rafael has been trashed, Mariah has been trashed and received death threats, USFS has basically been called a party to all of this.

In the end, whether they litigate or not, all three of them will be OK and move on. The biggest loser in all of this: Eunsoo herself. While it may sell more tickets in Korea to ATS shows where she appears, and get her some Korean sponsors, I think most international coaches will be wary of dealing with her camp and possibly any other ATS-signed skater. I'd make an educated guess and say that she won't be training with Rafael after this competition, regardless of what the original business agreement was.
 

UGG

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2,390
I'm not defending ATS here. I just find it's odd that people are standing by Bell when it's true that she indeed caused harm to someone and not apologized IN PERSON.If she did that at the first time, nothing would happened. So she's the starting point of all this mess.

She is being accused of assault- kicking and stabbing a 16 year old girl with her skate blade. Not apologizing does not mean false accusations of assault should be acceptable. Also she had right of way on the ice so other skaters should have moved. She didn’t do anything wrong other than not adjust her choreography IMO.
 

dawnie

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In the end, whether they litigate or not, all three of them will be OK and move on. The biggest loser in all of this: Eunsoo herself. While it may sell more tickets in Korea to ATS shows where she appears, and get her some Korean sponsors, I think most international coaches will be wary of dealing with her camp and possibly any other ATS-signed skater. I'd make an educated guess and say that she won't be training with Rafael after this competition, regardless of what the original business agreement was.

I don't understand why people seem to think the motive behind this was financial? I can't see someone saying, "Oh that girl who said she was intentionally cut is performing- let's buy a ticket". Or companies like Samsung or LG decides to sponsor her after all this drama. Doesn't make sense to me.
 
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