U.S. Ladies [#25]: Method in the Madness

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becca

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Seriously, people on here are defending Bell like they know her in person. You are not! And let me ask this, why do people suggest Lim change coach after this mess? Because deep down you know she might be bullied this time for sure. So yes, even people as sweet and innocent as Bell and her gang, they're capable of mean things.

Rafe has already said he knew nothing about any bullying issue. It’s possible there are language issues too. If Eun So has an issue with a training mate.

The first thing her and her team should do is take it up with the coach before you know creating an international incident. That’s how adults handle things.

No one would want that and apparently there is no video of this crash and we are creating an international incident?

I don’t know any of these girls but I do think it is wrong to create an incident without first trying to settle the problem privately and already ATS was dishonest if Mariah was on warning coach would know about it.

I think society in general is far to quick to get offended.
 
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forthewin

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Bell issued an apology through USFS. With the competition still underway, she is in no position to make public statements or attend meetings herself. Nor is Eunsoo. As for suing, my friend, we're not even 48 hours into this situation and there is going to be plenty of "golden opportunity" as you put it, for lawyers to go after ATS if that is what Bell/Raf/USFS want to do. Rafael has been trashed, Mariah has been trashed and received death threats, USFS has basically been called a party to all of this.

In the end, whether they litigate or not, all three of them will be OK and move on. The biggest loser in all of this: Eunsoo herself. While it may sell more tickets in Korea to ATS shows where she appears, and get her some Korean sponsors, I think most international coaches will be wary of dealing with her camp and possibly any other ATS-signed skater. I'd make an educated guess and say that she won't be training with Rafael after this competition, regardless of what the original business agreement was.
Not your friend, but glad you proved my point. Like you said, let's wait to see how well Bell can play the innocent victim and how much money the great oiled American legal system can make out of it. Lol
 

Skittl1321

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Gosh, it's not like Lim standing in the middle of the rink. She was at the board and Bell came from her behind. If people can't even acknowledge who's in the wrong of the incident itself, I have to say there's nothing left to say really.

Do you have a video?

It's possible Lim was not at fault, but, if it is true that Mariah was in a run through- she is not at fault either. I haven't seen it, I'm not placing blame on either skater. I'm just wondering what more than offer an apology, which she has since done when made aware she cut Lim, Mariah is expected to do?

I've been run into standing at the boards. I should have gotten out of the way. The skater was doing their program.
I've also had much higher level skaters than me cut me off during a program, to which they apologized- I had right of way and they had no right to get in my way, regardless of where they were and what they were doing.

Again, I haven't seen the video, but everything I've read is Mariah was doing a run through. If a skater is in a program, it is the responsibility of everyone else on the ice to know where they are and stay out of their way.
 

VGThuy

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Not your friend, but glad you proved my point. Like you said, let's wait to see how well Bell can play the innocent victim and how much money the great oiled American legal system can make out of it. Lol

Bell hasn’t done anything, but you and countless others have been painting Lim in a very sexist helpless way in order to paint Bell as this monster. The legal system is here to address any wrongdoing. If ATS and others didn’t do anything wrong, then they won’t have to worry about a lawsuit. Thank goodness people have access to courts to get remedies they are so entitled. Actions have consequences and people need to learn that. Welcome to the adult world.
 

all_empty

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Here's a thought...

Both parties may be innocent here.

Mariah could've been doing her runthrough, full speed and full emotion, extended her leg choreographically as she was coming around the boards, and accidentally knicked Eunsoo.

Eunsoo, in the wrong place at the wrong time, unfortunately was injured. She was probably more shocked than anything because suddenly she had pain in her leg. Accidents happen.

It appears from photos that Eunsoo's reaction was immediate and she was in distress. But remember Mariah is doing a run-through. From her pattern/the direction she was heading in after the accident, Mariah was facing forward and Eunsoo behind her. If she was unaware of the accident, Mariah would keep skating her program; she wouldn't look behind her. And Eunsoo may have skated away at this point.

That's why the reports of Mariah "closing in from behind" or "stalking" are a bit incredulous. That's her pattern and program. Skaters doing their runthroughs should have the right of way. And generally speaking, they are spatially aware of each other (i.e. Lutz corners). Sure, there are the Hardings and Huberts of the world who go bombing across the ice full speed but that's not the case here.

An apology doesn't imply wrongdoing. Mariah says she was unaware. Hopefully, both will be able to skate well in the free.
 

forthewin

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Next time Bell does the run-through, let's empty the rink for her. Because standing at the board is not enough, everyone should fear her blaze and the lawsuit. American first!
 

attyfan

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Also, saving evidence of the hate mail directed at Mariah does not necessarily imply that she is the one seeking legal recourse. If Raf wants to dump Eunsoo (or make her dumping ATS as a condition for staying), he would want evidence of cause to terminate to protect him from any claim that he breached the contract
 

jiejie

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I don't understand why people seem to think the motive behind this was financial? I can't see someone saying, "Oh that girl who said she was intentionally cut is performing- let's buy a ticket". Or companies like Samsung or LG decides to sponsor her after all this drama. Doesn't make sense to me.

ATS, the instigator, is an agent. Any agent's ONLY motivation is financial. That is why agents exist, to make money for themselves and their clients. Anyone who can't see this is just being dim.
 

Skittl1321

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She is being accused of assault- kicking and stabbing a 16 year old girl with her skate blade. Not apologizing does not mean false accusations of assault should be acceptable. Also she had right of way on the ice so other skaters should have moved. She didn’t do anything wrong other than not adjust her choreography IMO.


Likely, if she was aware she was going to collide she would adjust, because no skater likes a collusion- an intentional one would put Mariah at risk of getting injured and not being able to compete, it would just be a stupid move on any skater's part to try to injure another skater this way. But skaters at this level buzz by extremely close to each other*, and it is NEVER the obligation of the skater in the program to adjust their choreography. The skater in the program has the ultimate right of way.
 

Andora

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If the girls can put this behind them after worlds, and ATS is smart, Mariah would be invited to the next ATS show. Good faith, and all that.

@forthewin I don't think it's a bad idea for you to avoid this thread a little bit. I don't think you're helping your case, whatever that is, at the moment.
 

Bonita

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During skating I have knocked down people and once I got sliced with a blade by someone on a practice session. This stuff happens.

I am perplexed about the lack of apology issue (the girl who sliced my thigh cried hysterically and said she was sorry for 5 minutes) and vice versa (I always help the person I knocked down up and apologize profusely).

Like someone said above, maybe she was uber focused on her run-through and didn't want to stop. But I can't imagine in any universe where a skater would do this on purpose. Even if you're an evil sack of crap, you wouldn't want to risk hurting yourself.

I quit my prior rink because near misses were becoming the norm rather than a rare occurrence (too overcrowded).

I hope both ladies skate well, but I'm afraid the social media firestorm isn't going to help their mindsets.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

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So Bell did clip Lim. Raf thought it's accidental. But did she apologize? Does Raf think it's OK to hurt people if it's unintentional? No need to say sorry apparently.

Well on the other hand..... where was the apology..."Oh Crap. Im so sorry I did not give you the right of way. Im sorry for being somewhere I shouldn't have."

If Im not supposed to be driving in the inside lane and I get hit being there Im not necessarily going to expect the driver who was in the correct lane to come and apologize to me.

Not everyone can be the victim 100% of the time.

It requires a neutral mind, and seeing 2 sides, not just your favorite skater's.
 

lurkz2

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Team Raf's reputation also took a hit - I wonder what the fallout will be.

In the past, he didn't hesitate in dropping Mao Asada and he actually had no top international skaters for a period of time, it's only now that he's again coaching international skaters who are on the rise.
 

snoopy

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Raf coaches several of the Korean skaters, no? If it came to that, it might be an all or nothing decision. Maybe KSU makes him kick Bell out.
 

Skittl1321

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If the girls can put this behind them after worlds, and ATS is smart, Mariah would be invited to the next ATS show. Good faith, and all that.

@forthewin I don't think it's a bad idea for you to avoid this thread a little bit. I don't think you're helping your case, whatever that is, at the moment.

After seeing some of the craziness of fans on youtube following Yuna incidents and near misses, I would not skate in an ATS show if I were Mariah.
 

jiejie

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Raf coaches several of the Korean skaters, no? If it came to that, it might be an all or nothing decision. Maybe KSU makes him kick Bell out.
Cue maniacal laughter. I doubt if KSU can make Raf kick Bell out unless he wants to. Which at this point, with what little I know of his personality, he probably would refuse. They can of course, remove any or all of their skaters although there are probably some contractual terms requiring payment, assuming Raf or his attorneys were shrewd with their written agreements.
 

Skittl1321

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During skating I have knocked down people and once I got sliced with a blade by someone on a practice session. This stuff happens.

I am perplexed about the lack of apology issue (the girl who sliced my thigh cried hysterically and said she was sorry for 5 minutes) and vice versa (I always help the person I knocked down up and apologize profusely).

Like someone said above, maybe she was uber focused on her run-through and didn't want to stop. But I can't imagine in any universe where a skater would do this on purpose. Even if you're an evil sack of crap, you wouldn't want to risk hurting yourself.

I quit my prior rink because near misses were becoming the norm rather than a rare occurrence (too overcrowded).

I hope both ladies skate well, but I'm afraid the social media firestorm isn't going to help their mindsets.


I've never skated at World's or anything other than a local competition. But I have been hit in a practice session, where it wasn't a big deal- no one knocked their head, no one gushing blood, and the skater came over and apologized after their run through, rather than interrupt it. If Bell didn't know her blade cut Eunsoo, since she didn't knock her over, she might not have thought to stop and interrupt her program, and might not have thought anything of it by the time the program was over.

I wouldn't expect a skater at worlds to stop their program for something so minor; though maybe not skating by just to check in afterwards is a bit self-centered; skaters are taught to focus on themselves at these high level competitions. You can't worry about what is going on with other people.
 

RoseRed

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Raf coaches several of the Korean skaters, no? If it came to that, it might be an all or nothing decision. Maybe KSU makes him kick Bell out.
I don't think he coaches any other Korean skaters. And I would be absolutely shocked if he kicked Mariah out. He's already defended her publicly, as have other skaters from his team.

If someone is leaving/being kicked out, it's likely to be Eunsoo at this point (which is unfortunate), unless there's actual evidence of the alleged months of bullying.

You have to imagine that Raf won't want to go near ATS with a 10 foot pole after this.
 
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