U.S. Ladies [#21]: Wrapped Up with a Neat Little BOW

[toddlj]

Ashley Wagner's "outspokenness" should have no connection to her scores and team selections.

 

[Vagabond]

Ashley Wagner's "outspokenness" should have no connection to her scores and team selections.

Agreed. But much of the discussion here about scores and team selection has little do with her actual skating either. :shrug:

 

[mag]

Ashley Wagner's "outspokenness" should have no connection to her scores and team selections.

Absolutely! Nothing any of them do outside of competition should matter. I think as fans we sometimes get invested in their stories: Ashley the scrappy fighter who had to work so much harder and never give up, Mirai the underdog who spent 8 years toiling in obscurity to make it back, etc etc. The fact is, even if they had to walk 5 miles to the rink, in bare feet, in a foot of snow, up hill both ways, it shouldn’t matter . What counts is what they put out on the ice, and now for team selections it is not just what they put out on the ice at Nationals, but what they put out all season long.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Can we give up on the Ashley deserved it nonsense.


She didn’t deliver this season. End of story.

Well, homegirl got a GP medal. Karen didnt.

Her PCS were held down at Nats, Karen's werent.

Both had lackluster seasons, edge to Ash tho for sure.

Ash delivered a bit more than Karen. And Karen's ongoing drama... Child, please. lol

Having said this I can Definitely put this whole topic to bed and move forward!

Actually looking forward to next season GP series and see where the cards will fall...

 

[meggonzo]

With Ashley turning down the chance to go to worlds, I think the USA can say goodbye to retaining three spots next year.

There'd be a good chance of that happening even if Ashley was there.

Oh, well. What's done is done. This season has been a total bust for the ladies of Team USA.

I'm sure Bradie disagrees with you.

 

[VGThuy]

I sort of wish Karen didn't place 4th at Worlds and thus the U.S. ladies would have had only 2 spots for the Olympics and this tired discussion would have never happened.

 

[Wyliefan]

I sort of wish Karen didn't place 4th at Worlds and thus the U.S. ladies would have had only 2 spots for the Olympics and this tired discussion would have never happened.

Are you kidding? We would have found SOMETHING to have a tired discussion about. It's what we do.

 

[shady82]

I sort of wish Karen didn't place 4th at Worlds and thus the U.S. ladies would have had only 2 spots for the Olympics and this tired discussion would have never happened.

I think Karen placing 4th is evidence that on a good day, American ladies are very capable of getting and deserving three spots.

 

[Lizziebeth]

Well, one of the things that makes Ashley a “star” is that we love rehashing her story as nausium and she’s a bit “controversial”. But, now that’s it’s all said and done, she was the most accomplished us ladies skater of the last decade and as per the Lipinski rule, no one can ever take that away from her. We’ll never know if she could have done better in Korea than those who went, but we do know that usfs made their decision on who to send and it was pretty much a complete disaster for usfs standards, although I agree we can always sink lower, just look at pairs. Or don’t look, it’s gotten too painful to even watch in recent years.

This is off topic, but it seems to me that injuries have caused some of the gloom and doom in pairs. The Knierems missed a season and K & S did too. Pairs from China, Russia and Canada have been injured as well. Tough to improve if you miss so much training time. I still enjoy pairs and hope they all recover for next season.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Ashley Wagner's "outspokenness" should have no connection to her scores and team selections.

...well.. it should not affect scores... unless her "outspokenness" is directed at and affects national and international events, judges and skaters...

"I disagree with the scores" or "I don't think i was judged fairly" are acceptable responses. But to call Olympic judges' scores "bullshit" into an open mike at the Olympics, to say "we are gypped", to through a tantrum "I am furious" affects any event negatively. She is full of herself, thinks she is important enough to have her individual opinion and feelings offend others.

She acts like an entitled Queen Bee. Does she honestly believe that judges will shake in their boots because "Mistress Ashley" is "furious"? The Queen is mad! everyone hide... https://i.imgur.com/u4hrMI0.gif

 

[Willin]

@Tinami Amori So you're saying that skating judges should be petty and non-objective?

You can disagree with what Ashley says (and it's fair to be angry at some of the things she says), but no ethical judge should bring that personal disagreement into their judging.

And so what if she acts like "an entitled Queen Bee"? It's a lot more fun that cookie cutter ice princesses. On the ice I don't care, but off the ice I want the drama. That stuff between Ashley and Alina was such good . I miss the days when skaters could have a personality beyond a hard working skater with either insane technical content or insane technical problems. Give me more personality and drama.

 

[Tinami Amori]

So you're saying that skating judges should be petty and non-objective?

No, that is not what i am saying. But there is such thing as "minimal code of conduct" in any venue.

You can disagree with what Ashley says (and it's fair to be angry at some of the things she says), but no ethical judge should bring that personal disagreement into their judging.

She has not been "judged" since her last outburst, we don't know how judges would judge her. But i can guess how they reacted to her current and previous diatribes.

And so what if she acts like "an entitled Queen Bee"? It's a lot more fun that cookie cutter ice princesses. On the ice I don't care, but off the ice I want the drama.

There is a wast territory of possible reactions and responses between "I want to skate my best" and "I am furious"

That stuff between Ashley and Alina was such good . I miss the days when skaters could have a personality beyond a hard working skater with either insane technical content or insane technical problems.

Wagner came off looking like a sour-grapes loser being rightfully put in her place by an Olympic Gold Medalist...

Give me more personality and drama.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXaLBa__TJA

 

[DreamSkates]

I think Karen placing 4th is evidence that on a good day, American ladies are very capable of getting and deserving three spots.

US ladies need more good days. PLEASE!?

 

[DreamSkates]

Say what you will about Wagner, but definitely can't accuse her of "not fulfilling potential"...

I'm not sure what her strategy was this year, but the overall outcome isn't really much of a surprise to me honestly. After all, 2010 and 2014 were low(er) points in her career, too.

Regardless, she's had quite a career, especially by current US Ladies standards.

World silver medal, a crowning achievement (plus National wins).

 

[mtnskater]

Burning question: If Karen is withdrawing because her boots are broken down and Avanta, having a hissy fit, won’t give new boots to her, why didn’t USFS intervene to broker a deal just to get her through Worlds?

I am kind of excited to see if Bradie might skate clean at Worlds. If I’m recalling correctly Doug Haw said Bradie has excellent jump technique, and is one of the best spinners in the ladies event. He said her coach is an excellent coach who teaches good technique. His main critique is she needs better programs. Considering that the Olympics were her second big international senior competition after Skate America, she did quite well. She says she doesn’t really get nervous. What is the best case scenario for Bradie at Worlds? Maybe not great until she gets new programs next season?

 

[Spun Silver]

Burning question: If Karen is withdrawing because her boots are broken down and Avanta, having a hissy fit, won’t give new boots to her, why didn’t USFS intervene to broker a deal just to get her through Worlds?

I am kind of excited to see if Bradie might skate clean at Worlds. If I’m recalling correctly Doug Haw said Bradie has excellent jump technique, and is one of the best spinners in the ladies event. He said her coach is an excellent coach who teaches good technique. His main critique is she needs better programs. Considering that the Olympics were her second big international senior competition after Skate America, she did quite well. She says she doesn’t really get nervous. What is the best case scenario for Bradie at Worlds? Maybe not great until she gets new programs next season?

I agree about USFS and Avanta but we don't know that that is the reason.

I don't see how Bradie could finish higher than 9th since IIRC pretty much all the big names from the Olympics except Med will be there (with Higuchi replacing Sakamoto) and I doubt Gabby will implode again. Hopefully Mirai won't either!

 

[RoseRed]

I agree about USFS and Avanta but we don't know that that is the reason.

I don't see how Bradie could finish higher than 9th since IIRC pretty much all the big names from the Olympics except Med will be there (with Higuchi replacing Sakamoto) and I doubt Gabby will implode again. Hopefully Mirai won't either!

I'd agree that 9th would be a reasonable expectation. 8th might be doable too, since I do think Dabin is beatable for her. And of course if other people have really bad skates she can take advantage.

 

[Deleted member 53443]

I just read in this thread that Karen Chen is the one with the "ongoing drama" in a comparison with Ashley Wagner. Alright.

 

[VGThuy]

That's why I found Bradie so refreshing. We had seasons of drama, gossip, and stress from the top U.S. ladies and here we have boring Bradie who doesn't even seem bothered to give a media-friendly cliched quote or at least say it in a way that feigns perkiness. She's all about her business and I really appreciated it. Shame she couldn't skate well in the individual competition because it's one thing to be clean and boring but to not skate well and be boring...well...

 

[Spun Silver]

I'm in the position of liking her off-ice personality but yawning during the actual skating. She needs an intervention IMHO and nobody on her team, including her, seems to realize it. If she places higher than 8th or 9th (I do agree she might beat Dabin, though I hope not) it will only be because someone messed up. I'd like to see her aim much higher, but its hard to see that happening withuout some changes.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I'm not convinced Wagner was meh about the season or specifically unmotivated: I think it's more likely she was tired and anxious that her Nationals wouldn't turn out any better than in 2010 or 2014, no matter what she did or didn't do the rest of the cycle. When there was no energy and passion in her SP at Skate Canada, a program with which she typically lit up and arena, it was clear she was in trouble.

You can do a Buttle, and realize that the mid-cycle Worlds was the one won which to go out on a high, or you can, like more skaters would, see the Olympics in sight, think you might have momentum, and keep going when the tank is depleted.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Don't get me wrong. I want the US Ladies to do well and medal more than anyone. Here's hoping they can come through in Milan, and just not be part of the event simply to make up numbers.

But being fighters and scrappy in order to make the Olympic Team, just isn't enough against the top skaters from Russia who can put out clean skates again and again.

Judges like to reward consistency, and that's what wins.

 

[skateboy]

What is the best case scenario for Bradie at Worlds? Maybe not great until she gets new programs next season?

I quite like Bradie's SP.

 

[Eeyora1]

Random Thought:

I was just thinking how BOTH Ashley and Gracie peaked at 2016 Worlds...
Now one could argue that politics was involved being on US soil. However I beg to differ.. I find it kind of sad that they both seemed to have lost motivation afterwords for different reasons. It’s kind of like they both thought of it as their only chance on the podium. Part of me wonders if this is an even deeper problem with US figure skating? Are we training our skaters only to peak on US soil?

 

[Spun Silver]

Reread your last line.

 

[GreatLakesGal]

Burning question: If Karen is withdrawing because her boots are broken down and Avanta, having a hissy fit, won’t give new boots to her, why didn’t USFS intervene to broker a deal just to get her through Worlds?

I wouldn't go anywhere near that mess if I were them. I also wouldn't invest any more resources in Karen until she demonstrates that she's gotten her act together. She's young; maybe she can bounce back from having a bad season. Maybe.

 

[GreatLakesGal]

That's why I found Bradie so refreshing. We had seasons of drama, gossip, and stress from the top U.S. ladies and here we have boring Bradie who doesn't even seem bothered to give a media-friendly cliched quote or at least say it in a way that feigns perkiness. She's all about her business and I really appreciated it. Shame she couldn't skate well in the individual competition because it's one thing to be clean and boring but to not skate well and be boring...well...

Bradie did well in the individual competition. She wasn't perfect but, given her lack of international experience and having to skate first in the SP, she did an admirable job of not letting early errors destroy her entire performance. Same for Mirai. And they both did well in the team event and ended up with team bronze medals.

I get that you're a Karen uber but you're not helping her by going all mean girl on Bradie.

 

[berthesghost]

I get that you're a Karen uber but you're not helping her by going all mean girl on Bradie.

Wow, you must have had a pretty cushy childhood if you feel pointing out that a boring skater is boring is “mean girl” you would have been in tears everyday at my elementary school, that’s all I’m sayin. I’ve gotten the impression that Bradie herself is pretty unfazed by all of it. Even compared to drama club, I’d have to say that skating exposed me to some of the cattyest digs I’ve ever heard. I’m sure Bradie has thickened her skin over the years, but I also feel that her consistency is largely due to her seemly imperviousness to the side-eyes I’m sure she’s used to, not exactly being the second coming of Sasha Cohen.

 

[Coco]

I don't know how to say this, but watching Bradie in the "winner's lounge" while she had the lead, a) I wanted to rip the phone out of her hands because kids being glommed onto their phone drives me nuts (guilty of this myself sometimes) and b) looking at her 'bitch face' makes me think she has no problem handling catty digs or mean girls.

I think she had that look on her face because she felt like being made to sit there was almost a punishment, since she knew she wouldn't be there long and she wasn't super happy with her skate.

I'm sure she's a nice kid, but I also think she's very tough. Not complaining, those are good qualities.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

having a hissy fit, won’t give new boots to her, why didn’t USFS intervene to broker a deal just to get her through Worlds?

It wont matter who brokers what because there isn't a boot alive that she wont have issues with.