The Dance Hall, Part 4: To Helsinki & Back -- Seeking Rhumba Magic ...

Sylvia

TBD
Messages
79,976
Corentin Rahier has posted his and Natacha Lagouge's junior programs from the competition in Cergy, France last weekend (they won both segments):
SD (59.36): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVzkNtOWpcw
FD (69.00): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH7d6LMyO20
L/R's music as posted in GSD:
SD
Oye como va
Frío sin ti by Navajita plateá -
???

FD - Theme : the life of Coco Chanel
Little Black Baby - Scott Joplin (ragtime)
??? (tango)
Tema per una donna sola by Ennio Morricone (waltz)
??? (waltz)
Cocomotion by El Coco (disco)
 
Last edited:

LilJen

Reaching out with my hand sensitively
Messages
13,111
I think it's frustrating because Madison and Zach are very photogenic and have incredible chemistry on and off the ice to be exploited for media.

And sponsors. Amateur athletes need money. No one wants to feel unappreciated by their federation, but the real loss here is missing out on the kind of strategic exposure that helps the quest to become marketable commodities.
I find it frustrating too that USFS & the IOC & the media promote lesser-ranked singles skaters above higher-ranked and more accomplished ice dancers. I would guess it stems from the "it's all about the jumps" attitude and the "ice dance isn't really a sport" attitude. :mad:
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
41,020
@chameleonster has posted this link to some Lake Placid Dance comp. videos (re-posting here because some are international teams, not just U.S.): https://www.youtube.com/user/diodio0013plus/videos

For those with access to the Kiss & Cry section: 2017 Lake Placid Ice Dance Championships & International, July 26-29

Thanks for the link @Sylvia and @chameleonster! I have to say of the teams I've seen so far, the only SD I really liked was Manta/Johnson. They have the most semblance to actual ice dancers whereas I feel like most are doing SD elements. I also like their rotational lift. It's similar to Cappellini/Lanotte's except Manta holds up her own leg in that split position unlike C/L where she requires Luca to do it (sort of like how Charlie had to hold up Meryl's split in their signature rotational lift 2012 and beyond). Disclaimer: I know it's early and things will improve for every team.
 

kittysk8ts

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,820
Thanks for the link @Sylvia and @chameleonster! I have to say of the teams I've seen so far, the only SD I really liked was Manta/Johnson. They have the most semblance to actual ice dancers whereas I feel like most are doing SD elements. I also like their rotational lift. It's similar to Cappellini/Lanotte's except Manta holds up her own leg in that split position unlike C/L where she requires Luca to do it (sort of like how Charlie had to hold up Meryl's split in their signature rotational lift 2012 and beyond). Disclaimer: I know it's early and things will improve for every team.
They were fabulous. This program with mileage is going to be even more fun :)
 

chapis

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,874
SD Lake Placid


Copyrighted links removed by admin.

I really like the program of M/C.I am kind of disappointed with the Parsons, there is nothing that stands out in that program, and their skating did not look very well, but I guess they are only testing the programs, they and M/C did only 2 sets of twizzles.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
41,020
I disagree that nothing stood out with the Parsons. There was that last ending pose that I thought was great and I think their SS stood out in a big way during the pattern dance. However, I agree with you that it's a major work in progress as I don't get much character or sense of the rhythm with them here. M/C also need more work and I don't quite buy them at some parts, but they seem much more comfortable with the character of the rhythm than the Parsons are by some way and they are way sure-footed and fast. I think they were way ready to move on from last season after Junior Worlds (maybe before). The top two Wheaton teams sure are showing us how to do the pattern step with security.
 

AquaLady

Well-Known Member
Messages
141
Among the top teams, I feel like Lorraine and Quinn's SD looks the most polished. Igor should really step up his game. Christina and Anthony need a coaching change. They'll reach their full potential with Marie-France and Patrice. I'm loving the Latin! Can't wait to see the programs of the top seniors.
 

chameleonster

Well-Known Member
Messages
514
I actually thought Parsons started out with a much stronger feel for the rhythm but got a bit rattled after Michael's fall. I don't think rhumba is a natural rhythm for M/C but they made it work, and I'm glad to see them return to form after the frustration of last season. Pogrebinsky/Benoit had a couple noticeable bobbles that likely cost them technically but had some great highlight moves and good sense of the rhythm. Manta/Johnson are so entertaining with such great expression and feel for the dance, it's really unfortunate that they compete in such a deep field.

As for juniors, I'm glad to see Lewis/Bye back on form and hope that this continues. The fancam was good but I hope that closer video will emerge. Some bobbles, but good for July, and beating Polischuk/Vakhnov bodes well for their first JGP where they'll be against P/V and Lajoie/Lagha. I hope video surfaces of Polischuk/Vakhnov soon, I would have liked to see them. I think you could tell that C/P had less time to prepare their programs, but you could also tell that they were the class of the field(that I was able to see, at least). I actually really liked this program, they keep improving quickly, they kept up the energy all the way through, and I thought they moved well. Greens have really grown up, really nice, precise pattern, I look forward to seeing them on the JGP this year.
 

lauravvv

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,594
I am kind of disappointed with the Parsons, there is nothing that stands out in that program, and their skating did not look very well, but I guess they are only testing the programs, they and M/C did only 2 sets of twizzles.
As VIETgrITerifa said, apart from the fall, Parsons skating skills were good in this performance. They also got the highest PCS - most likely first of all due to those skating skills.

As for twizzles, three sets have never been obligatory (at least as far as I know), and they are not obligatory now. Two sets are enough for level 4 if the team does a difficult entry and/or other additional features for difficulty + enough/the right number of full rotations for that level (which is four) in each set.
 

chapis

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,874
Their SS are great, those do not disappear from one day to another. I meant their skating in general compared to their usual themselves.
About the choreo and performance I already watched at least 8 times, and I don´t like it at all.
 

suki

Well-Known Member
Messages
515
Christina and Anthony need a coaching change. They'll reach their full potential with Marie-France and Patrice. I'm loving the Latin! Can't wait to see the programs of the top seniors.

Oh please, no!!!!!!:eek: I hope as they mature they will find their own voice rather than be thrown into the great homoginizer that it the Montreal school of ice dance.
 

nuge

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,131
Anyone watch the FDs yet ?

Parsons Missing FD great.M/C Tango not my cuppa tea.C/P beautiful couple so much potential.M/J oh the music cuts:rolleyes:
 

chapis

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,874
Anyone watch the FDs yet ?

Parsons Missing FD great.M/C Tango not my cuppa tea.C/P beautiful couple so much potential.M/J oh the music cuts:rolleyes:

I guess it is a homage to the Duchesnay or something, well, I don´t like it because I can not get the original out of my mind and well, there is a evident difference. For the record, I also hated the Shibs skating that music.

Admin edit to remove links--sorry, but there has been a complaint for violation of copyright on those videos. Please do not post any more links.

I think both, the Parsons and M/C had better programs last season. Do they have the same choreographers as last season?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
41,020
Nobody will top a program about the Pinochet regime in Chile. Subsequent teams who used the music have used different interpretations. I think the Shibs started out with Maia being a bird and Alex being like a naturist who finds her to whatever it ended up being at Worlds. The Parsons seem to be going for more of an abstract contemporary dance, but I'm not sure what they're going for at all. The worst was Navka/Kostomorov dressing up like Pebbles and Bam Bam doing some sort of cavewoman/caveman courtship dance that looked like a preview of DomShab's ill-received 2010 original dance.
 

Jun Y

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,776
Nobody will top a program about the Pinochet regime in Chile. Subsequent teams who used the music have used different interpretations. I think the Shibs started out with Maia being a bird and Alex being like a naturist who finds her to whatever it ended up being at Worlds. The Parsons seem to be going for more of an abstract contemporary dance, but I'm not sure what they're going for at all. The worst was Navka/Kostomorov dressing up like Pebbles and Bam Bam doing some sort of cavewoman/caveman courtship dance that looked like a preview of DomShab's ill-received 2010 original dance.

Well actually, Christopher Dean's "Missing" program, which he first skated with Torvill as a professional skating program and then adapted as a competitive program for the Duchesnay siblings, was obviously based on the modern ballet "Ghost Dances" choreographed by Christopher Bruce for Rambert. Correct me if I'm wrong, I have not heard Dean citing the ballet as his inspiration, but both the music and choreographic elements were clearly derived from it. Perhaps it has long been pointed out by people familiar with both skating and ballet, and I just have not heard it. Or it was such open knowledge that neither Dean nor others feel the need to mention the source.

I looked up some clips of the Ghost Dances ballet on YouTube. It seems obvious to me that the free dance skated by the Parsonses is based on the ballet's choreography rather than by Dean's program, ie, it's a derivation, but not a derivation of a derivation.

The original ballet was created in response to the political oppression in 1970s Chile, but it does not explicitly show protests, arrests, and killings, or even mark anything specifically Chilean. So while Dean talked about the original background of the ballet as his program's theme, the choreography itself does not necessarily need to be interpreted that way. In my eyes, the ballet puts forth the elements of both South American folk dance and death (in dancers wearing skeletal black costumes). It would actually be interesting to see someone skate to the part of skeletons/ghosts, but that would probably scare off the judges.
 

suki

Well-Known Member
Messages
515
No, not necessarily with Igor. They may well move to another coach/choreographer as they progress. I just hope it isn't the Montreal school, which IMO, is churning out the same bland programs. Actually, I would love to see them work with Carol Lane or Shae Lynn Bourne, at least for choreography.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
41,020
Well actually, Christopher Dean's "Missing" program, which he first skated with Torvill as a professional skating program and then adapted as a competitive program for the Duchesnay siblings, was obviously based on the modern ballet "Ghost Dances" choreographed by Christopher Bruce for Rambert. Correct me if I'm wrong, I have not heard Dean citing the ballet as his inspiration, but both the music and choreographic elements were clearly derived from it. Perhaps it has long been pointed out by people familiar with both skating and ballet, and I just have not heard it. Or it was such open knowledge that neither Dean nor others feel the need to mention the source.

I looked up some clips of the Ghost Dances ballet on YouTube. It seems obvious to me that the free dance skated by the Parsonses is based on the ballet's choreography rather than by Dean's program, ie, it's a derivation, but not a derivation of a derivation.

The original ballet was created in response to the political oppression in 1970s Chile, but it does not explicitly show protests, arrests, and killings, or even mark anything specifically Chilean. So while Dean talked about the original background of the ballet as his program's theme, the choreography itself does not necessarily need to be interpreted that way. In my eyes, the ballet puts forth the elements of both South American folk dance and death (in dancers wearing skeletal black costumes). It would actually be interesting to see someone skate to the part of skeletons/ghosts, but that would probably scare off the judges.

Man, you got a lot of mileage out of my one line about the Pinochet regime. Kudos to you.

https://youtu.be/2t8Oqa0tBZA
 

lauravvv

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,594
No, not necessarily with Igor. They may well move to another coach/choreographer as they progress. I just hope it isn't the Montreal school, which IMO, is churning out the same bland programs. Actually, I would love to see them work with Carol Lane or Shae Lynn Bourne, at least for choreography.
I agree about Carol Lane and Shae Lynn Bourne, but only partially agree about the Montreal school. They surely have a distinctive style, but for me (and for many others) it's not bland and it's definitely better than what Shpilband is doing most of the time. Also, the Dubreuil/Lauzon school is not only about programs (the same as Shpilband's or any other notable school, of course). They teach good basics, and almost everyone who goes to them shows improvement in skating skills. That is part of their "style", as are elements that are not separate acrobatic tricks, but are a part of the flow of the program. Some like it, others probably find it boring. In my opinion it's not the worst "style" that there can be, although I personally do like impressive lifts and other elements that stand out and/or look interesting by themselves. Sorry for the off-topic
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,954
Love McNamara & Carpenter's tango. I liked the program when I first saw it, but I like it more each time I watch it. Some rough edges to work out, but an interesting relationship, interesting transitions, and a good blend of lows & highs within both the technical and emotional story of the program. A challenge.

Appreciate the Parsons FD as well. Feel like they have continued to develop the style they discovered last season, but with a program that has different, unique elements and a different feel.

What exactly is the Montreal style? How is it defined?

This is my definition, which is the only one I can offer:

Soft & flowy music with interesting, original lifts; fast but less-intricate footwork; and romantic themes, generally lacking conflict. Good extension, deep edges, clean lines, few transitions, and programs that belong at a wedding, but rarely reflect the trials of dating, the sex of the honeymoon, the difficulties of the marriage, or the reasons for the divorce.

;) It's not my cup of tea, but it has been a very successful formula for D&L's teams; and I'm sure fans who crave fluidity, romance, subtlety, and original lifts have a different definition. On the plus side, I see evidence of a lot of stroking practice & improved speed within a team like H&D, which makes me respect the technical foundation teams are receiving in Montreal.

My definition is the trend I see, not the rule. (Smart & Diaz's short last season was an exception. I also thought there was a darker tone to P&C's free last season, which I appreciated). And to be more exact, this is the Marie-France style. Programs like Hurtado & Diaz's Paso SD and V&M's Prince--which had outside choreography--reflect a different personality, and D&L have, IMO, demonstrated the ability to support those different styles when their teams have chosen to attempt them. Outside choreography has been quite rare for their teams over the past couple years; but David Wilson does seem to be getting more involved and to give Montreal credit, I feel like some of the choices that have been announced this season--i.e. Hubbell & Donahue and Smart & Diaz--seem more tailored to fit the individual teams' strengths rather than M-FD's taste in choreography. (And, of course, it's quite likely that her style appeals to teams who go to train there).

Nonetheless, based on what we have seen over the past several years, the Montreal style seems typically about the "dream of love" rather than reality, and I would like to see more versatility among the FDs. Perhaps this will be the season. They have three teams at the top--to their credit; and all those teams are very capable of having their own unique style.
 
Last edited:

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,954
McNamara and Carpenter are back!!! They look good. Does anyone have the link to the scores?

Total scores are posted here for the Lake Placid International events:
http://www.lakeplacidskating.com/events/lpicedanceintl.php

Short and free dance scores are posted here for the Lake Placid Championships.
http://www.lakeplacidskating.com/events/icedance.php

Almost all SD and FD scores are posted in the Kiss & Cry. Protocols and TES/PCS marks have not been posted yet on the official site. (And they are important because many of the teams who competed here need the senior tech minimums). Some of the TES/PCS breakdowns are here:

https://www.facebook.com/icedancecom/

I'm not finding the FD breakdowns yet. If you don't have access to the Kiss & Cry and there is an SD or FD score you would like to know from the international event, just let me know which team(s) you are interested in and I can check for you.
 
Last edited:

Users who are viewing this thread

Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information