The Dance Hall 6: We're All Off Our Rockers 2018-2019

PRlady

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I also think that Virtue/Moir and Davis/White had an edge going into seniors because they were coming in on the new judging system and were young enough to have been trained in it from an earlier age.
Very true. Not to mention that as juniors those two teams, along with I/K, had amazing charisma. L/L do not.
 

chantilly

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Ugh. Grease! Sorry if you knew how many tines I’ve seen that show/ movie. And heard the songs from it at many karaoke bars.I just find it a bit of a safe choice. And other then the fun of it the songs aren’t that great. Fun but not great.

Having said that, fun RDs after all the tangoes and the fact that the world is in a dark place these days, it seems like it might be just the thing I need.
 

angi

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Very true. Not to mention that as juniors those two teams, along with I/K, had amazing charisma. L/L do not.
I have to say, this is very much in the eyes of the beholder. I think L/L have a lot of Charisma (Marjorie especially) while Charisma is probably one of the last words I would use to describe junior D/W (in fact I personally think they realized how to come off as charismatic in the 2010-14).
 

Dobre

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I think many of the young senior/aging out juniors will be the top teams for 2026
Many?

A very low percentage of each year's "crop" of junior dance teams make it long term. Intriguingly 6 of the top 7 dance teams at the Olympic Games did all stick together after placing among the top 10 at a Junior Worlds. I don't think it's an accident that those particular teams stuck it out, made it to 2018, and placed high. And 2026 seems like a very logical target for the current top junior teams. Seven years out. Considering how few junior teams actually make it long term, though, your comment struck me as something worth looking back at, relative to the teams that just were teams at the 2018 Olympics. So . . . scrolling back 7 years prior would have been 2011.

-None of the top 10 teams at the 2011 Junior Worlds existed as of last year.
-The Shibs made it out of the top 10 from 2009 & 2010.
-No one from the top 10 in 2008.
-Weaver & Poje and Bobrova & Soloviev made it out of the top 10 from 2007.
-Virtue & Moir and Cappellini & Lanotte made it out of 2006. (There were two other teams in the top ten there that made it to an Olympics, just not 2018).

In the other direction (from those Junior Worlds closer in time following the 2011 Junior Worlds:
-Papadakis & Cizeron from 2012 and 2013.
-No one from 2014.
-Nazarova & Nikitin from 2014 and 2015.
-Lauriault & Le Gac from 2016.
-No one from 2017 or 2018.
Obviously some of the top junior dance teams from 2012-2018 are together and still working their way up the Nationals ranks (and Stepanova & Bukin would have qualified for the Olympics had they not been banned).

But 0-2 out your average Junior Top 10.

There’s something very dazzle dazzle big grins about the Finnstep isn’t there? I don’t think it’s a pattern you can do with a serious or sexy face lol.
It's a quickstep. Per the following article, which is citing a description from icedance.com rather than any formal description from the ISU: https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/02/quick-guide-ice-dance/358117/

"The Finnstep is, according to Ice-Dance.com, "a ballroom type Quickstep, and should be danced very lightly, so to speak 'over-the-top.' This dance is not serious, so it can even be performed a bit comically."

(I think you could have a sexy quickstep, as it's totally possible to have fun fast-paced numbers with a flirtatious sexy side to them. You have to have a quickstep hold, though, so that's probably why the word "flirty" works better than "sexy" when I think about a quickstep. As far as serious goes, it doesn't strike me as likely to work in the standard way we think of a serious look, but a tongue-in-cheek type of seriousness might).

Sales/Wamsteeker already announced that they are doing a Mamma Mia RD, by the way: https://www.instagram.com/halessales/
That's nice. Different for them.

For context. I was responding to someone who predicted a swift rise for L/L like the one V/M and P/C experienced. I was disagreeing pointing out that while I think they are very talented and strong technically I don't think they possess the quality of those other two teams that make panels swoon. AND that any technical advantage they might have over current senior teams could be lost in the GOE range panels can play with now (ie...we have seen lower levels scoring same/similar as higher levels) I never once considered their Junior GOE/PCS would carry through to senior.
Understood. I think it was still worth clarifying, though, for anyone reading the thread that just because teams earn lower GOE and PCS the year they move up doesn't mean they've regressed or that politics are at work. It just implies that the standards for GOE and PCS are higher in seniors. On the plus side for all of the teams moving to seniors, the base value in the FD goes up.
 
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sharsk8s

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Many?

A very low percentage of each year's "crop" of junior dance teams make it long term. Intriguingly 6 of the top 7 dance teams at the Olympic Games did all stick together after placing among the top 10 at a Junior Worlds. I don't think it's an accident that those particular teams stuck it out, made it to 2018, and placed high. And 2026 seems like a very logical target for the current top junior teams. Seven years out. Considering how few junior teams actually make it long term, though, your comment struck me as something worth looking back at, relative to the teams that just were teams at the 2018 Olympics. So . . . scrolling back 7 years prior would have been 2011.

-None of the top 10 teams at the 2011 Junior Worlds existed as of last year.
-The Shibs made it out of the top 10 from 2009 & 2010.
-No one from the top 10 in 2008.
-Weaver & Poje and Bobrova & Soloviev made it out of the top 10 from 2007.
-Virtue & Moir and Cappellini & Lanotte made it out of 2006. (There were two other teams in the top ten there that made it to an Olympics, just not 2018).

In the other direction (from those Junior Worlds closer in time following the 2011 Junior Worlds:
-Papadakis & Cizeron from 2012 and 2013.
-No one from 2014.
-Nazarova & Nikitin from 2014 and 2015.
-Lauriault & Le Gac from 2016.
-No one from 2017 or 2018.
Obviously some of the top junior dance teams from 2012-2018 are together and still working their way up the Nationals ranks (and Stepanova & Bukin would have qualified for the Olympics had they not been banned).

But 0-2 out your average Junior Top 10.
This is a very interesting analysis, thank you! In my comment I just meant the top junior teams from this year/next along with some of the teams that recently turned senior. I think the group of top jr skaters from jr worlds between 2017-2020 (roughly) will be the teams that we will likely see at the top of the senior ranks for 2026. This is just a guess but I know very few of the top junior teams make it successful as seniors. I really enjoy some of the juniors I have recently seen, so hopefully they can pull it off.
 

Colonel Green

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A certain percentage, of course, generally make it with new partners. (That would require a whole other post. Maybe tomorrow;)).
Among the current top eight teams, the only partnership where neither was notable as a junior is Guignard/Fabbri.

Papadakis/Cizeron, Stepanova/Bukin and (albeit briefly) Weaver/Poje were together as juniors and were Junior Worlds medalists.

Chock/Bates and Sinitsina/Katsalapov are two teams where everybody won the Junior World title with previous partners.

And then with Gilles/Poirier and Hubbell/Donohue you have two partnerships where one partner was a Junior Grand Prix Final/Junior World medalist in a previous partnership and the other two used to be a more modestly successful partnership.

Sales/Wamsteeker already announced that they are doing a Mamma Mia RD, by the way: https://www.instagram.com/halessales/
Heh, now that I think about it, should pop songs count for the Broadway/musical mandate just because decades after they came out they were incorporated into a jukebox musical?
 
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Dobre

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Heh, now that I think about it, should pop songs count for the Broadway/musical mandate just because decades after they came out they were incorporated into a jukebox musical?
If they didn't, a HUGE chunk of the early classic musical era would be discounted by the same rule of thumb. A plethora of "popular" songs were retooled for early musicals in which there was precious little plot and a vast array of dancing reflecting various genres & styles. There's going to be a gray area, for sure, but Mama Mia is clearly a musical. Might get a bit trickier if you are looking at films that only have one musical number, for example. I do think it's possible we may ultimately get some clearer guidelines.
 

Dobre

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Random Fun Fact:
(Whilst researching musicals).

Did you know the original Funny Face starred Fred Astaire & his sister, Adele Astaire, on Broadway? I'm sure some of you did, but I never realized that Astaire, himself, was part of a sibling dance team. From basically 1905 to 1932.

ETA: No, this does not mean I want more Fred & Ginger.
 
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cocotaffy

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Somebody's gonna do a Frank Sinatra medley, right?
I'd rather have a Dean Martin one. As for sexy finnstep, the only team I can see pull this off are Chock and Bates. For the goofy side of things, I trust Gaby to do her best faces, like in the first version of their Lindy hop SD back in 2017, she was great. And the good news for Katsalapov is that he'll be able to recycle his tango suit to play the lounge lizard on a Sinatra tune. Anyway, I'm not anticipating it with much joy, musicals are definitely not my cup of tea.
 

Bigbird

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On a side note, does having a bit of good weight help with power and glide? I was watching last years S/B programs and I must say their flow was much better and she was more solid, she wasn't so choppy. Or was this simply due to the choreography? I just think that sometimes these girls sacrifice these things for aesthetics but ultimately they lose out. Or am I just imagining things?
 

sharsk8s

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On a side note, does having a bit of good weight help with power and glide? I was watching last years S/B programs and I must say their flow was much better and she was more solid, she wasn't so choppy. Or was this simply due to the choreography? I just think that sometimes these girls sacrifice these things for aesthetics but ultimately they lose out. Or am I just imagining things?
I think it is a mixture. I have noticed the russian's seem to like their female dancers to be slim with long legs (which stepanova is a perfect example of). I think there is a benefit to being really strong and sturdy and to having more of a ballerina body type. For example Madi H has a very muscular body type which I think makes her more powerful and strong which suits her well in most of their programs. While someone like Gabi P has a naturally slim body frame (especially if you look back to when they were juniors) and long libs which I think helps her look flowy and elegant which suits the p/c style. I think any body type as long as they are healthy is good, they just need to have a style/choreography that best suits them. But I do agree that if the skater's are very slim it seems they sometimes have a harder time generating speed especially compared to the more muscular skaters
 

Bigbird

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I think it is a mixture. I have noticed the russian's seem to like their female dancers to be slim with long legs (which stepanova is a perfect example of). I think there is a benefit to being really strong and sturdy and to having more of a ballerina body type. For example Madi H has a very muscular body type which I think makes her more powerful and strong which suits her well in most of their programs. While someone like Gabi P has a naturally slim body frame (especially if you look back to when they were juniors) and long libs which I think helps her look flowy and elegant which suits the p/c style. I think any body type as long as they are healthy is good, they just need to have a style/choreography that best suits them. But I do agree that if the skater's are very slim it seems they sometimes have a harder time generating speed especially compared to the more muscular skaters
Hmm....it's all in how you package, the presentation.
 

The Accordion

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Random Fun Fact:
(Whilst researching musicals).

Did you know the original Funny Face starred Fred Astaire & his sister, Adele Astaire, on Broadway? I'm sure some of you did, but I never realized that Astaire, himself, was part of a sibling dance team. From basically 1905 to 1932.

ETA: No, this does not mean I want more Fred & Ginger.
A lyric from another musical, Annie: "Like Fred and Adele, they're walking on air now". These lyrics are the reason I knew about the sibling dancers for so long. I had to go and find out why it wasn't Fred and Ginger in the lyrics.
 

suki

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A lyric from another musical, Annie: "Like Fred and Adele, they're walking on air now". These lyrics are the reason I knew about the sibling dancers for so long. I had to go and find out why it wasn't Fred and Ginger in the lyrics.
Adele led a full life. She married into the British aristocracy (Lord Cavendish) in addition to being a well-known dancer.
 

starrynight

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I went back and looked through the music choices at 2014 Worlds for the Finnstep.

Interestingly, it might as well have been a musical/broadyway theme anyway. Almost everyone had choices in that department.

Lots of Broadway musicals ... 42nd Street, Chicago, Burlesque, Annie, Cabaret, Gentlemen Prefer Blondes, The Mask .... Lots of Sing Sing Sing, Gershwin, Fred Astaire... some Glee soundtrack choices.

Basically no one skated to anything that wasn't already in the genre of musical/broadway.

But what we've seen this season is that the most important thing in choosing RD music is that the music helps you hit the key points of the pattern dance.

Everyone loves to wail and moan about teams choosing predictable music for the RD... but the important thing is having music where the rhythm works for the key points. So it helps you, rather than you having to skate 'through' it because you tried to ram a square peg into a round hole.

I think that some teams have created problems for themselves with the Tango Romantica by trying to choose *different* music that actually doesn't help them pick out the key points for the pattern dance.
 

Dobre

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As promised, here are the members of the top ten teams at Junior Worlds that repartnered and made it to the 2018 Olympics from the Junior Worlds events between 2006 and 2018:
(Please feel free to correct me if you find that I have missed someone).

2006-Bates
2007-Hubbell, Poirier
2008-Same three athletes, Guerreiro, Agafanova
2009-Hubbell, Guerreiro, Chock, Mysliveckova
2010-Guerreiro, Khaliavin, Gilles, Donohue
2011-Guerreiro, Khaliavin, Zahorsky, Hurtado, Csolley
2012-None
2013-None
2014-None
2015-None
2016-None
2017-None
2018-None

0-5 repartnered athletes per year. In this case, there are two years with 5 athletes, both years in which no intact teams went on to 2018. There are also 7 years with none--all immediately prior to and/or including the Olympic year.

I did find that I missed one more top-10 team from Junior Worlds that made it to the 2018 Olympics in my previous post:

2015-Kaliszek & Spodyriev

The ultimate count I get (feel free to correct me if you see a mistake) is:

-18 athletes that had finished top ten & remained with the same partner.
-13 repartnered athletes that had finished top ten with previous partners at Junior Worlds.

The most "successful" junior seasons for 2018 were 2006-2011. (All qualified 5 or 6 top-10 athletes, the equivalent of 2 1/2 to 3 teams. Of course there is some overlap there as several athletes competed in more than one of those junior seasons).
 
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