The Dance Hall 6: We're All Off Our Rockers 2018-2019

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starrynight

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So it sounds like the ‘make your own pattern’ idea was shelved. Probably due to concerns not dissimilar to the ones raised on here.

Sensible decision to keep ice dance legitimate as a sport. But at the same time a small part of me was interested to watch what happened.

Finnstep is interesting because pretty much everyone competing now did a short dance to it not that long ago.

Will it still be broadway/musical themed or are we back to the usual RD format?

Although I recall a lot of the Finnsteps were to musicals in 2013/2014.
 

Bigbird

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So it sounds like the ‘make your own pattern’ idea was shelved. Probably due to concerns not dissimilar to the ones raised on here.

Sensible decision to keep ice dance legitimate as a sport. But at the same time a small part of me was interested to watch what happened.

Finnstep is interesting because pretty much everyone competing now did a short dance to it not that long ago.

Will it still be broadway/musical themed or are we back to the usual RD format?

Although I recall a lot of the Finnsteps were to musicals in 2013/2014.

But probably couples will need to create an original step sequence in hold using key points from the Finnstep? Similar to the approach taken in the 2014/15 season?
 

starrynight

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I really hope that they stream the technical committee meeting at Worlds this year again. I want to hear what they have to say.

The complicated tango romantica pattern really threw the cat among the pigeons. If they hadn’t changed the GOE, the whole rankings would be on disarray due to top teams not being able to handle the pattern.

I just hope they don’t dumb down the use of the Finnstep next season to try to protect the status quo.
 

Colonel Green

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Will it still be broadway/musical themed or are we back to the usual RD format?

Although I recall a lot of the Finnsteps were to musicals in 2013/2014.
Since the plan was always to have the juniors do the Teatime Foxtrot within the Broadway/musical framework, I don’t think adding the Finnstep to the senior requirements would affect that.
 

starrynight

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Since the plan was always to have the juniors do the Teatime Foxtrot within the Broadway/musical framework, I don’t think adding the Finnstep to the senior requirements would affect that.
So still musicals?

Although the nature of the Finnstep means that certain musicals just won’t fit with the mood of the pattern.

I can’t imagine The Phantom and Christine doing a Finnstep for example.
 

Michalle

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Oh man I see the aesthetic appeal of this pattern in theory but this only enhances the worst aspects of using Broadway/Musical for the theme for me personally toward the smily/jazz hands end of the spectrum, this whole thing is like my worst nightmare come to life at this point. On the other hand, my expectations are pretty low, so maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.
 

Dobre

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Also, Weaver/Poje chose to skip the grand prix. (Other teams who didn’t do a full GP season had mitigating circumstances such as injury). Will judges care? Might they be influenced by the perception that teams who exposed themselves to the rigors of a full competitive season are somehow more deserving?
Like they consequenced Yuna Kim for only skating one international in 2012-13 by letting her win Worlds by only 20 points? And Kwan in 02-03? And V&M for taking off two seasons?

Whether it hurts W&P to have done fewer run-throughs in front of international panels this season or not (I personally think there's a lot of value in putting yourself up against the best as you build throughout the season), I do think it was the right choice for Weaver & Poje. They probably needed the break. It's quite something that they have elected to continue to skate & compete considering how long they have been in it and some of the disappointments of the last couple years.

Anyway, they didn't sit out the whole season. They went & did Autumn Classic to get that early season feedback first. It's not like putting yourself up against the international field on the GP; but it was smart nonetheless. I think missing out on the tour probably would have made it hard to dedicate themselves this season so in the end, they made a good compromise. They can strive for a medal, but they can also help control the destiny of the Canadian teams for next season. (With them, Canada has decent odds for three berths. Without them, the odds would be a lot steeper).

All I know is G&P better make a move quick, Lajoie and Lagha are coming up fast for a Canadian team to win world juniors they must be amazing only 2nd time in history, I can easily see them doing a V&M or P&C and move up very fast.
How about we don't hype Lajoie & Lagha up the same way Soucisse & Firus were last season. Acknowledge the giant challenge that is the transition up to seniors and appreciate young teams as they tackle it. They do not have to be V&M any more than the U.S. ladies have to be Kwan. There are three very competitive senior teams in Canada right now. L&L have time to learn the ropes and grow.
 
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Spun Silver

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So still musicals?

Although the nature of the Finnstep means that certain musicals just won’t fit with the mood of the pattern.
Don't be too sure. I once saw a tap routine to Phantom. With capes and everything.
It could be the season of voids to end all voids. Finnstep Rent, Finnstep Gypsy, Finnstep Oklahoma... I can hardly wait!
 

caseyedwards

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All I know is G&P better make a move quick, Lajoie and Lagha are coming up fast for a Canadian team to win world juniors they must be amazing only 2nd time in history, I can easily see them doing a V&M or P&C and move up very fast.
Yeah. Lots of Russian teams win and you never hear from them again and they might be very bad in seniors like y/m or s/a or m/k or s/s or are totally mediocre like s/b but when a non Russian team like Americans or Canadians that means something
 
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starrynight

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How about we don't hype Lajoie & Lagha up the same way Soucisse & Firus were last season. Acknowledge the giant challenge that is the transition up to seniors and appreciate young teams as they tackle it. They do not have to be V&M any more than the U.S. ladies have to be Kwan. There are three very competitive senior teams in Canada right now. L&L have time to learn the ropes and grow.
Yes the step from juniors to seniors is a huge gulf.

People were seriously hyping Hawayek/Baker in the same way and it has taken a quad and the Shibs sitting out of competition to get a foothold in seniors. It isn’t straight forward transferring to seniors - this is not Russian ladies skating.
 

marbri

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All I know is G&P better make a move quick, Lajoie and Lagha are coming up fast for a Canadian team to win world juniors they must be amazing only 2nd time in history, I can easily see them doing a V&M or P&C and move up very fast.
I'd hold back a bit on that. I don't think they possess what those two teams had when they entered seniors. But I think they are in the right place to develop that. I think they will certainly threaten their fellow Canadian teammates but seniors is a different ballpark and they need to find that special something that will set them apart from the other top teams. I don't think they have it yet and with this ridiculous GOE range any advantage they have technically could easily be nullified for a team that gives the judges more feels. But it will be a battle next season within Canada for sure. Well if W/P continue of course.
 

starrynight

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I also think that Virtue/Moir and Davis/White had an edge going into seniors because they were coming in on the new judging system and were young enough to have been trained in it from an earlier age.
 
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Dobre

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I don't think they have it yet and with this ridiculous GOE range any advantage they have technically could easily be nullified for a team that gives the judges more feels.
Typically speaking, GOE & PCS tend to drop regardless. At least that was the result I got when I compared the three highest-scoring & highest-placing transitioning teams' scores a couple seasons ago. (Even the Shibs and Papadakis & Cizeron's GOE was limited during their debut seasons). This season such a comparison would be pointless because the range has changed between last year & this year, but we can compare the GOE for top teams that just started seniors with the GOE for the top junior teams this season--who have never defeated those transitioning senior teams.

Even at Tallinn Trophy, where scoring was more generous than on the GP, Carreira & Ponomarenko earned 0 plus 4s in the RD and 3 in the FD. Skoptcova & Aleshin, whose scores were much higher at Tallinn than elsewhere this season, earned 2 plus 4s in the RD and 8 plus 4s in the FD.

At Junior Worlds, Lajoie & Lagha earned 12 plus 4s in the RD and 24 plus 4s and 3 plus 5s in the FD.
Khudaberdieva & Nazarov earned 5 plus 4s in the RD and 8 plus 4s and 1 plus 5 in the FD.
Shevechenko & Eremenko earned 5 plus 4s and 1 plus 5 in the RD and 9 plus 4s and 3 plus 5s in the FD.
Nguyen & Kolesnik earned 10 plus 4s and 5 plus 5s in the FD.
Ushakova & Nekrasov earned 8 plus 4s and 1 plus 5 in the RD and 11 plus 4s and 1 plus 5 in the FD.

That kind of GOE just isn't given to transitioning senior teams.
 
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sharsk8s

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I agree no one can predict what l/l will do. I see a ton of potential in them and they will be a fresh face on the canadian scene. They have the right coaches (which I think might help them out next year) and I see skate canada trying to build them up over the next quad because all the canadian teams are older and will all leave after 2022 (if not earlier) along with most of the international top teams. I think many of the young senior/aging out juniors will be the top teams for 2026
 

marbri

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Typically speaking, GOE & PCS tend to drop regardless. At least that was the result I got when I compared the three highest-scoring & highest-placing transitioning teams' scores a couple seasons ago. (Even the Shibs and Papadakis & Cizeron's GOE was limited during their debut seasons). This season such a comparison would be pointless because the range has changed between last year & this year, but we can compare the GOE for top teams that just started seniors with the GOE for the top junior teams this season--who have never defeated those transitioning senior teams.

<snip>.
For context. I was responding to someone who predicted a swift rise for L/L like the one V/M and P/C experienced. I was disagreeing pointing out that while I think they are very talented and strong technically I don't think they possess the quality of those other two teams that make panels swoon. AND that any technical advantage they might have over current senior teams could be lost in the GOE range panels can play with now (ie...we have seen lower levels scoring same/similar as higher levels) I never once considered their Junior GOE/PCS would carry through to senior.
 
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yurokis40

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My assessement is based on the fact that Lajoie and Lagha already look like seniors and their warsaw concerto skated with maturity was impressive technically very strong, P&C did not look impressive in their senior debut it was only after they moved to montreal and Marie-france Mozart program that they had a breaktrough.
 

Colonel Green

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Obviously it’s impossible to know how swiftly a team’s reputation will rise, since sudden, dramatic leaps do happen, though they’re definitely the exception to the rule.

I don’t personally expect L/L to move up that quickly, at least based on right now. I think they’re well-positioned to be national #4 next year, which would be a clear path to being #3 in the 20/21 season depending on what Weaver/Poje decide to do — if the latter stick around, then I think passing Fournier Beaudry/Sørensen will be a bigger lift, though I’d say it’s doable by the Olympics, certainly.

L/L are going to be in the same spot as the current troika of recently-moved-up American teams, sort of chafing at the bit beneath more well-established star teams that are looking to stay on top through 2022.

In the long-term I’m also interested by how the non-L/L teams that are coming up through the lower ranks of Canadian dance handle the three years until the expected big changeover post-Beijing. For the ones with some years of junior eligibility left there’s solid international assignments on offer, but there’s a bunch being pushed out of junior at the end of this season (e.g., Fabbri/Ayer) for whom the next few years are looking a bit grim as far as what they can realistically hope to get if they want to stick it out.
 

Peepsquick

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My assessement is based on the fact that Lajoie and Lagha already look like seniors and their warsaw concerto skated with maturity was impressive technically very strong, P&C did not look impressive in their senior debut it was only after they moved to montreal and Marie-france Mozart program that they had a breaktrough.


They actually already had the goods but were not in a set-up where they could train all day like in Montréal. Being able to focus just on skating in Gadbois was jut the trigger they needed to improve on their already impressive skills. L/L have already benefitted for some time from training in this amazing center. I expect them to improve steadily but not drastically.
 

yurokis40

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They actually already had the goods but were not in a set-up where they could train all day like in Montréal. Being able to focus just on skating in Gadbois was jut the trigger they needed to improve on their already impressive skills. L/L have already benefitted for some time from training in this amazing center. I expect them to improve steadily but not drastically.
Gabriella was a weak skater before she moved to montreal, they really helped her.
 
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