The Dance Hall 8: Join the Maskerade 2020-2021

sap5

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I love musicals, but I'm not sorry to see the Finnstep go. It looked so grueling.
I loved the Finnstep when it was a CD, but hate the way it's been cut down to be a pattern. Plus the fact that no one can skate it properly also drove me crazy. It's not the Finnstep's fault, though.
 

sap5

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I seem to remember that the 2016-17 RDs were for the most part one of the better reviewed rhythms from the fans. There is always a worry about the cringe factor. I just think so long as the teams try their best to be themselves and pay respect to the rhythm without looking ridiculous, it should be ok. The ISU obviously wants safe SYTYCD safe-for-primetime television style of hip hop, so I don't see anything like this happening:

Good Vibrations

That said, the Shibs did do a shout-out to Blades of Glory when using Will Ferrell's quote: "We're going to skate to one song and one song only" leading up to Jay-Z's "Paris", which he also sampled for the song.
Respect to the rhythm is what is key for me. I don't care what skaters choose - hip hop, jazz, swing, etc. I want to see that the choreographers and skaters took the time to really understand what they're skating too, and not just making choices to fit the requirements. If they're really feeling their music and expressing in a way that's true to themselves and the rhythm, I think audiences will love it.

ETA: will always feel the Will Ferrell quote was a stroke of genius in that Shibs SD.
 

MsZem

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17,502
I loved the Finnstep when it was a CD, but hate the way it's been cut down to be a pattern. Plus the fact that no one can skate it properly also drove me crazy. It's not the Finnstep's fault, though.
Nothing is the Finnstep's fault. And nobody has been able to match the original to this day ;)
 

VGThuy

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38,306
The last time I truly loved the pattern in the SD/RD was the 2015-16 Ravensburger Waltz SD because they used the ENTIRE pattern (took out the SBS step) and the teams were actually able to find music (or edited music and adding sound effects) that really made whole programs. P/C had a masterful Waltz that felt like a FD, the Shibs had a brilliant Coppelia-themed SD that was full of content, WeaPo's waltz was wonderful as well, and we got the introduction to Hubbell/Donohue's brilliant march/waltz to "Hallelujah" that was way superior to their FD this past season. That was just some of the SDs I've enjoyed that season. I think 2015-2016 is seriously my favorite ice dance season when looking at the entire field and their programs in both the OD/SD/RD and FD portions.

Then the next year, with the hip-hop/swing Blues SD, they cut the Midnight Blues so heavily that it was only the opening steps and we didn't get into the substance of the actual CD. The SDs were fun for the most part, but that Midnight Blues massacre is almost unforgivable.

I don't like what happened to the Finnstep these past two seasons either. I loved how V/M were able to implement the FinnStep with their underscored (compared to D/W) foxtrot/quickstep SD that 2013-14 Olympic season, so I know it can be done very well. I think forcing a Broadway theme (which is actually NOT a genre of music but an industry and culture that is full of shows that run the gamut of musical genres depending on the play itself and the characters) forcing them to do a Finnstep to it was a bad idea because a lot of the teams seemed clearly UNFAMILIAR and UNCOMFORTABLE with performing the way actor-dancers-singers can perform on stage and the RD restrictions don't match Broadway at all.
 

morqet

rising like a phoenix
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2,590
Respect to the rhythm is what is key for me. I don't care what skaters choose - hip hop, jazz, swing, etc. I want to see that the choreographers and skaters took the time to really understand what they're skating too, and not just making choices to fit the requirements.
Agreed & I think this was where the RD fell down for the last two seasons. Lots of music choices that just about fitted the requirement in terms of timing and being from a musical, but didn't lend themselves to being skated to in a light and sparkling style. I guess that when the Broadway theme was picked, they had Golden Age musicals in mind rather than something heavy and bombastic like The Greatest Showman.
 

VGThuy

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38,306
Agreed & I think this was where the RD fell down for the last two seasons. Lots of music choices that just about fitted the requirement in terms of timing and being from a musical, but didn't lend themselves to being skated to in a light and sparkling style. I guess that when the Broadway theme was picked, they had Golden Age musicals in mind rather than something heavy and bombastic like The Greatest Showman.

Very good point. I bet they wanted something light and from the 1930s-50s style of dancing. Thinking of Fred and Ginger. However, what we got was a lot of heavy-footeded dances and dances that tried to be light were bogged down by music choices or the teams' inability to skate like that. Plus I do think the level 4 requirements in the footwork and the RD requirements in general sort of prevented a dance that would have been totally light on its feet and, as you said, "sparkling".
 

Bigbird

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2,757
I loved the Finnstep when it was a CD, but hate the way it's been cut down to be a pattern. Plus the fact that no one can skate it properly also drove me crazy. It's not the Finnstep's fault, though.
I find the RDs rather unfulfilling and watered down. Why not have them do the entire Finnstep? The second part truly was my favourite and it separated the boys from the men. Sigh. You really had to dance it with light and bouncy knees which practically no one has anymore. I didn't get the champagne bubbly sort of feeling, at worlds, best case scenario it felt like you were watching a cross between the waltz and the Finnstep at times. I wonder if we should just go back to the OD and CD? But that is a whole other conversation.
 

sap5

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10,242
Very good point. I bet they wanted something light and from the 1930s-50s style of dancing. Thinking of Fred and Ginger. However, what we got was a lot of heavy-footeded dances and dances that tried to be light were bogged down by music choices or the teams' inability to skate like that. Plus I do think the level 4 requirements in the footwork and the RD requirements in general sort of prevented a dance that would have been totally light on its feet and, as you said, "sparkling".
By not requiring that the Finnstep be done in a way that reflects its character, the requirement becomes nothing more than a bunch of required steps and KPs. It's meaningless.
 

Sylvia

Rooting for underdogs!
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71,588
Allison Reed's post today (Saulius also posted the same message on his Instagram): https://www.instagram.com/p/COlEWo2JP6n/
A huge honor to be creating a new dance for this upcoming Olympic season with such legends as Margarita Drobiazko and Povilas Vanagas! Excited to work on the things that we have created and to show it to you all 🙌🏼
Re-posting from the citizenship for the Olympics thread in GSD:
Posted today by the LTeam_official account of the Lithuanian National Olympic Committee: https://www.instagram.com/p/COkbzmvMyad/
Translated excerpt:
... Allison [Reed] will seek Lithuanian citizenship as an exception. [Saulius Ambrulevicius' quote:] "Regardless of what happens we will respect the decision. We will prepare and pursue our dreams further."
 

starrynight

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3,083
"Street Dance Rhythms" (such as hip hop, disco, swing, krump, popping, funk, etc.), jazz, reggae (reggaeton) and blues"

Honestly, I think I would just rather a much more structured short dance/rhythm dance with a bigger set pattern. Grand artistic choices that suit the styles of the teams can be done in the free skate.

I agree that ice dance does need a breath of fresh air (perhaps in part because the same teams and ideas have been circulating around the top for about a decade now).
 

mjb52

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5,995
I'm getting excited about the RD; there are a lot more options than I realized and I think it will be easier than I ad thought for teams to find something that they are excited about and that suits them. I'm hoping we see a pretty good diversity of styles and music choices.
 
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sk9tingfan

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5,061
"Street Dance Rhythms" (such as hip hop, disco, swing, krump, popping, funk, etc.), jazz, reggae (reggaeton) and blues"

Honestly, I think I would just rather a much more structured short dance/rhythm dance with a bigger set pattern. Grand artistic choices that suit the styles of the teams can be done in the free skate.

I agree that ice dance does need a breath of fresh air (perhaps in part because the same teams and ideas have been circulating around the top for about a decade now).
Get Nathan Chen to instruct them! :cheer2:
 

Wyliefan

Trying to appease the skategods
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35,506
I'm not very good at reading French, but as best I can make out, IAM has taken on Sandrine Gauthier/Quentin Thieren, the 2020 Canadian novice champions. (See stories.) I don't know who was coaching them before.
 
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Sylvia

Rooting for underdogs!
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I'm not very good at reading French, but as best I can make out, IAM has taken on Sandrine Gauthier/Quentin Thieren, the 2020 Canadian novice champions. (See stories.) I don't know who was coaching them before.
https://instagram.com/iceacademyofmontreal/
G/T's coaches as listed in their 2020-21 Team NextGen profile: Julien Lalonde, Mylene Girard

ETA that Sandrine Gauthier's Instagram story (original source) also tags/give thanks to Dominic Barthe: https://www.instagram.com/sandrine_.gauthier/

Also, Australia's Holly Harris has returned to Montreal (per her latest IG stories).

Kaitlin Hawayek posted today that she will be "back on the ice tomorrow" at IAM: https://www.instagram.com/p/COqagQ0pEYx/
 
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Colonel Green

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Olga Ermolina/Tatjana Flade's interview with Alexandr Zhulin for fsrussia.ru
[...]
The GP are not yet clear, but if all goes well we'd like to participate Moscow and China, but we'll see. Moscow - for the obvious reason, China - to understand what the scheduled will be like at the Olympics - the competition will be very early and the practices as early as 5am. Hence in Krasnoyarsk camp before the Olympics that our federation kindly organizes we'll wake up very early and have run through at 9am. We have to get used to it and not just got up, went and lost the Olympics, I don't remember a thing.
So I think that provides a lot of additional clarity for the Grand Prix events (assuming they happen in the normal fashion). So one might guess:

America: Hubbell & Donohue, Stepanova & Bukin
Canada: Gilles & Poirier, Chock & Bates
China: Sinitsina & Katsalapov, Stepanova & Bukin
Japan: Hubbell & Donohue, Guignard & Fabbri, [Papadakis & Cizeron]
France: Gilles & Poirier, Guignard & Fabbri, [Papadakis & Cizeron]
Russia: Sinitsina & Katsalapov, Chock & Bates

Not ideal return conditions for Papadakis & Cizeron, but they're kind of stuck based on which federations are likely to be interested in inviting them, so they kind of have to do it this way unless they decide to start the season taking on Sinitsina & Katsalapov in China (which would be an aggressive, interesting movie, to be sure), in which case Guignard & Fabbri would also go to China instead of Japan.

I'm also not entirely sold on both top Russian teams at the same event, but it's impossible, based on the way the top seeds are configured (and where P/C will presumably go) to avoid that unless Stepanova & Bukin are willing to risk being the bronze medalists at one of their events, which I would think both RusFed and the dancers themselves would also want to avoid.

Actually, now that I think about it, it's also possible that Chock & Bates could choose to do both North American events back to back (as Hubbell & Donohue did a couple of times), if they're angling to try to claw their way back over Hubbell & Donohue on the domestic side. Which would tighten Stepanova & Bukin's options even further.
 

Karen-W

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So I think that provides a lot of additional clarity for the Grand Prix events (assuming they happen in the normal fashion). So one might guess:

America: Hubbell & Donohue, Stepanova & Bukin
Canada: Gilles & Poirier, Chock & Bates
China: Sinitsina & Katsalapov, Stepanova & Bukin
Japan: Hubbell & Donohue, Guignard & Fabbri, [Papadakis & Cizeron]
France: Gilles & Poirier, Guignard & Fabbri, [Papadakis & Cizeron]
Russia: Sinitsina & Katsalapov, Chock & Bates

Not ideal return conditions for Papadakis & Cizeron, but they're kind of stuck based on which federations are likely to be interested in inviting them, so they kind of have to do it this way unless they decide to start the season taking on Sinitsina & Katsalapov in China (which would be an aggressive, interesting movie, to be sure), in which case Guignard & Fabbri would also go to China instead of Japan.

I'm also not entirely sold on both top Russian teams at the same event, but it's impossible, based on the way the top seeds are configured (and where P/C will presumably go) to avoid that unless Stepanova & Bukin are willing to risk being the bronze medalists at one of their events, which I would think both RusFed and the dancers themselves would also want to avoid.

Actually, now that I think about it, it's also possible that Chock & Bates could choose to do both North American events back to back (as Hubbell & Donohue did a couple of times), if they're angling to try to claw their way back over Hubbell & Donohue on the domestic side. Which would tighten Stepanova & Bukin's options even further.
Why would H/B choose to go to Japan (and still go up against P/C) when they could go to France? They get to pick before G/P and I can't see them schlepping halfway around the world rather than a quick flight to France.

I don't see the RSFS pitting S/B against S/K at any event - more likely S/B will wind up in Japan or France, IMO.

It's possible C/B could want SA to challenge H/D but I think they'd rather try and take out G/P at SC and save any showdowns with H/B for the GPF and Nationals - no point in possibly "baking in" a certain pecking order early in the season.

I'm also not sure I see P/C doing events back-to-back but they might not have a choice since I can't see SC wanting them there - that would put G/P at risk of winding up 3rd, but I suspect they would prefer Japan over China if they have to travel to Asia - hard to say, especially since CoC isn't the Olympic test event.

America: Hubbell/Donohue, Stepanova/Bukin
Canada: Gilles/Poirier, Chock/Bates
China: Sinitsina/Katsalapov, Guignard/Fabbri
Japan: Gilles/Poirier, Stepanova/Bukin, [Papadakis/Cizeron]
France: Hubbell/Donohue, Guignard/Fabbri, [Papadakis/Cizeron]
Russia: Sinitsina/Katsalapov, Chock/Bates
 

taz'smum

'Be Kind' - every skater has their own story
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America: Hubbell/Donohue, Stepanova/Bukin
Canada: Gilles/Poirier, Chock/Bates
China: Sinitsina/Katsalapov, Guignard/Fabbri
Japan: Gilles/Poirier, Stepanova/Bukin, [Papadakis/Cizeron]
France: Hubbell/Donohue, Guignard/Fabbri, [Papadakis/Cizeron]
Russia: Sinitsina/Katsalapov, Chock/Bates

There might be a problem with S/B getting a US visa unless the political situation improves between the US and Russia before then.
https://ru.usembassy.gov/visas/

I'd imagine that they Russian fed will try to avoid their skaters being allocated the US GP where possible, for this reason.
 

Colonel Green

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Why would H/B choose to go to Japan (and still go up against P/C) when they could go to France? They get to pick before G/P and I can't see them schlepping halfway around the world rather than a quick flight to France.
Because NHK Trophy is a much bigger and nicer event than IdF is; Japan is the center of global skating fandom for a reason.
I don't see the RSFS pitting S/B against S/K at any event - more likely S/B will wind up in Japan or France, IMO.
As I said, while it's not ideal to have your top teams at the same event, functionally S/B's chances at a gold medal at their second event are marginal at best, and with that out of the way, there's no real advantage to sending them to an event where they could easily end up third (indeed, based on momentum that would be the most plausible outcome) whilst spotting the Italians a silver medal in the process.
 

Debbie S

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I think C/B are more likely to go to China than Russia (with Russia being the last event), but we'll see.
 

Debbie S

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13,898
Back-to-back events plus the long haul to China would be rough also, though.
They did France and China back to back 2 seasons ago and said afterward that having 2 events together helped keep them in the competitive mindset, or something like that. SC is on the west coast, so if they do SC, the flight would be a little shorter than flying from Montreal. Of course, they may not want SC. We'll find out soon.
 

Belsornia

I bite because I like it
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2,956
Not sure if you are interested but we might see P/C compete before that in one of the smaller competitions. Guillaume seemed to imply that their season will start in September.
In that interview Zhulin also said that S/K are planning to do two Challengers and a Russian Cup event, which seems....a lot.

Of course, Zhulin says a lot of things.
 

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