The Dance Hall 9: Bring the Bling or No Beijing 2021-2022

Dobre

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This is a general discussion thread for all things ice dance. A place where fans of all ice dance teams have the chance to discuss their favorite heart-stopping moments, tear-inducing mistakes, costume malfunctions, and whatever else the ice dance world throws at us.

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michalle

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Is there any word on programs from Svinin/Zhuk squad? I think I know roughly where Zhulin team is at, inasmuch as they know themselves. :)
 

Dobre

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GP assignment predictions? What poor 4-6th seeded team is likely to wind up *&^!ed because P&C and another top 3 team are at (probably) NHK? Are the Italians getting *&^!ed again?
 

Sylvia

U.S. Qualifying season is underway!
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Team Japan's program music announcements:

Kana Muramoto & Daisuke Takashashi
Rhythm Dance: Soran Bushi by Maia Barouh & Koto by CloZee
Choreographer: Marina Zoueva, Ilia Tkachenko, 矢内康洋 [Koyo Yanai]
Daisuke's IG clip: https://www.instagram.com/tv/CQFNV5IgxY_/
Kana's IG clip: https://www.instagram.com/p/CQFNvEdFBVw/
News Clip with English Subs - Kana MURAMOTO 村元哉中 & Daisuke TAKAHASHI 髙橋大輔 New RD Soran Bushi ソーラン節 & Koto
Kana Muramoto confirmed 3 days ago that their Free Dance will be "La Bayadere to be continued": https://www.instagram.com/p/CQFPXOXM-O6/

Misato Komatsubara & Tim Koleto
RD: Funk and blues medley of 3 songs: "Le Freak" by CHIC / "What You Won't Do For Love" by Bobby Caldwell / "You Make Me Feel (Mighty Real)" by Sylvester; choreo. by Romain Haguenauer
https://twitter.com/Timkoleto/status/1405322074223267840 & https://www.instagram.com/p/CQM6xgLJ21e/

Free Dance: Memoirs of a Geisha by John Williams, performed by Yo-Yo Ma; choreo. by Marie-France Dubreuil
"Sayuri" [Sayuri's Theme]: https://twitter.com/Timkoleto/status/1405327294315438081 & https://www.instagram.com/p/CQM7FJSJO8e/
 

Colonel Green

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GP assignment predictions? What poor 4-6th seeded team is likely to wind up *&^!ed because P&C and another top 3 team are at (probably) NHK? Are the Italians getting *&^!ed again?
Between being in sixth seed and not having a home event, yes, Guignard & Fabbri seem destined for both of P/C’s events (France and NHK, virtually guaranteed).
 

Dobre

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Between being in sixth seed and not having a home event, yes, Guignard & Fabbri seem destined for both of P/C’s events (France and NHK, virtually guaranteed).
Do you think Canada will invite Chock & Bates? (The last time they did, it didn't go over that well).
 

Dobre

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As they’re the #4 seed, Canada wouldn’t have a choice if that’s what C/B want (as I expect they will).
While the wishes of the top two medalists are taken very seriously, sometimes the wishes of the next tier are not taken as seriously. It would be more affordable for Canada to invite C&B than any of the other teams. But Canada could protect F-B&S a bit from P&C by inviting F-B&S to Canada. And if Canada invites them + Gilles & Poirier, then Chock & Bates are not the most attractive option for SC.
 
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Debbie S

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Do you think Canada will invite Chock & Bates? (The last time they did, it didn't go over that well).
:confused:

Last time C/B were at SC, they were seeded 3rd so basically had no choice. I'm sure they would have preferred not to compete against V/M in their comeback season but the top 2 seeds didn't either, so... And V/M won, so it probably went over well for SC and the audience.

In normal times, it would probably be better for C/B to go to China and Russia (no P/C, likely at least 2nd, barring disaster) but with YKW and the less effective Chinese and Russian vaccines, Delta variant and who knows what else by then, I hope they don't go there. P/C will be in France and likely at NHK, so it seems like the best/safest option for C/B is SA and SC. We'll see what happens.

In terms of other teams, S/K will likely want China as their 2nd event so both H/D and G/P will need to compete against P/C. And yes, I assume G/F will be at P/C's events.
 

Karen-W

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:confused:

Last time C/B were at SC, they were seeded 3rd so basically had no choice. I'm sure they would have preferred not to compete against V/M in their comeback season but the top 2 seeds didn't either, so... And V/M won, so it probably went over well for SC and the audience.

In normal times, it would probably be better for C/B to go to China and Russia (no P/C, likely at least 2nd, barring disaster) but with YKW and the less effective Chinese and Russian vaccines, Delta variant and who knows what else by then, I hope they don't go there. P/C will be in France and likely at NHK, so it seems like the best/safest option for C/B is SA and SC. We'll see what happens.

In terms of other teams, S/K will likely want China as their 2nd event so both H/D and G/P will need to compete against P/C. And yes, I assume G/F will be at P/C's events.
C/B aren't going to be assigned SA. That will go to H/D and the USFS isn't going to want a head-to-head between their top two teams, both of which are strong medal contenders in Beijing. They'll most likely wind up at SC and RC.
 

Colonel Green

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C/B aren't going to be assigned SA. That will go to H/D and the USFS isn't going to want a head-to-head between their top two teams, both of which are strong medal contenders in Beijing. They'll most likely wind up at SC and RC.
Also, it would leave the US with only one other host pick.
 

Debbie S

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Also, it would leave the US with only one other host pick.
Well, they always have 3 picks for SA, and it's not like there are a lot of Senior teams that aren't already going to get 2 GPs. I agree that it's unlikely that C/B will be at SA, but this isn't a normal year, so I suspect there will be some unusual assignments (didn't someone post in the other thread that the U.S. won't give visas to Russian athletes, which would mean S/B couldn't be at SA, or is that no more?).
 

Karen-W

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Well, they always have 3 picks for SA, and it's not like there are a lot of Senior teams that aren't already going to get 2 GPs. I agree that it's unlikely that C/B will be at SA, but this isn't a normal year, so I suspect there will be some unusual assignments (didn't someone post in the other thread that the U.S. won't give visas to Russian athletes, which would mean S/B couldn't be at SA, or is that no more?).
My understanding is that the US State Dept isn't issuing visas from it's Russian embassy or consulates which makes it more difficult to obtain visas for Russian citizens - they need to go to Belarus or some other neighboring country to complete the paperwork, etc. I don't think it's impossible but it certainly complicates any GP assignments - the easiest Russian team to assign to SA would be Z/G since they have British and Australian passports and won't have nearly as much difficulty obtaining visas.

Possible assignments with neither of the seeded Russian teams at SA could look something like this:
SA - H/D, G/F
SC - G/P, S/B
CoC - S/K, C/B
NHK - H/D, S/B, P/C*
IdF - G/P, G/F, P/C*
RC - S/K, C/B

I can't see either the USFS or RFSF wanting their seeded teams facing each other at any point before the Final. I don't know that C/B would want to go up against S/K twice in the GP, but it might make more sense to have them assigned to CoC and RC with S/B getting the SC assignment, since it would guarantee C/B, at worst, two silver medals and a spot in the Final, especially if S/B and G/F each have a bronze medal from their 2nd event.

I'm not sure H/D would want to travel all the way to Japan for a possible second place finish against P/C. If you're likely to finish second, why not opt for the shorter trip to France? But, they've had good success in Japan in the past and they might consider it more neutral ground to take on P/C than going up against them with the French home crowd in the stands.
 
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Dobre

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I can't see either the USFS or RSFS wanting their seeded teams facing each other at any point before the Final.
Russia might do it. They chose to do so 4 years ago. S/K and S/B were pretty close earlier in this quadrennium & that makes a head-to-head less likely, but Russia might do it. (More likely if they can't send S/B to SA, which would probably wind up being a pretty safe top-2 finish over a likely H/B).

As for USFS, I don't see it happening.
 

Debbie S

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My understanding is that the US State Dept isn't issuing visas from it's Russian embassy or consulates which makes it more difficult to obtain visas for Russian citizens - they need to go to Belarus or some other neighboring country to complete the paperwork, etc. I don't think it's impossible but it certainly complicates any GP assignments - the easiest Russian team to assign to SA would be Z/G since they have British and Australian passports and won't have nearly as much difficulty obtaining visas.
Thanks for the info. But re Z/G, I think GP/ISU rules specify that skaters have to travel on the passport/visa reqs of the country they are representing.
 

Karen-W

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Thanks for the info. But re Z/G, I think GP/ISU rules specify that skaters have to travel on the passport/visa reqs of the country they are representing.
No, they only have to have that passport when they check in at the competition. I think they can travel on any passport/visa.

Russia might do it. They chose to do so 4 years ago. S/K and S/B were pretty close earlier in this quadrennium & that makes a head-to-head less likely, but Russia might do it. (More likely if they can't send S/B to SA, which would probably wind up being a pretty safe top-2 finish over a likely H/B).

As for USFS, I don't see it happening.
That's true - they could bite the bullet and give S/B a head-to-head with S/K at either RC or CoC if they can't send S/B to SA. But, the thing is, S/B are seeded behind C/B, so if C/B are looking screwed into two silvers, they'll choose SC and one of either CoC or RC. I don't see any way, unless S/B can get the SA assignment that they're going to be guaranteed two silvers - they are going to wind up as the third team at one of the events with P/C, same with G/F.

My guess is that the Russians are doing whatever they need to do in the way of soft diplomacy to guarantee that visas come through for S/B and at least one of their ladies, and probably at least one pairs team, for SA.

SA - H/D, G/F
SC - G/P, C/B
CoC - S/K, S/B
NHK - H/D, G/F, P/C*
IdF - G/P, S/B, P/C*
RC - S/K, C/B
 
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Colonel Green

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Possible assignments with neither of the seeded Russian teams at SA could look something like this:
SA - H/D, G/F
SC - G/P, S/B
CoC - S/K, C/B
NHK - H/D, S/B, P/C*
IdF - G/P, G/F, P/C*
RC - S/K, C/B

I can't see either the USFS or RFSF wanting their seeded teams facing each other at any point before the Final.
Neither would want that ideally, but in this scenario where S/B going to SkAm isn't possible, facing off against S/K is to my mind easily preferable to putting them in a situation where they would be favoured to come third (and handing the Italian team a silver medal on a platter).
 

Karen-W

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Neither would want that ideally, but in this scenario where S/B going to SkAm isn't possible, facing off against S/K is to my mind easily preferable to putting them in a situation where they would be favoured to come third (and handing the Italian team a silver medal on a platter).
But, they aren't going to have a choice since C/B are seeded ahead of them. Sure, facing off against S/K would be preferable than coming in 3rd but the only way that works is if Russia deliberately chooses to have S/K and S/B face each other in both events, and I'm not sure they could manage that.

1st - S/K - RC and CoC
2nd - H/D - SA & NHK/IdF *
3rd - G/P - SC & NHK/IdF (whichever one H/D don't select) *
4th - C/B - two of SC, CoC and RC
5th - S/B - ideally - SA & whichever one of SC, CoC and RC C/B don't select, if SA isn't an option then they're going to wind up with either NHK or IdF because C/B won't pick an event where bronze is a possibility
6th - G/F - whatever is left (possibly SA?)

* P/C will be at IdF and probably NHK - though there is a remote possibility that either SC or SA could invite them (I wouldn't but stranger things have been known to happen).
 

Dobre

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I'd guess G&P for IDF and H&D for NHK. If H&D have to go up against P&C, why do it in France? Especially when NHK tends to be more lucrative in the long run.

There is an advantage of one week of preparation time if they choose France.

(I guess it's possible that P&C could go to China).
 
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Karen-W

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(I guess it's possible that P&C could go to China).
That is a possibility - it would give them a week between competitions also. I wonder what S/K would choose if P/C wanted to go to CoC. Maybe choose NHK instead? I know Zhulin has said they like competing in China so I expect they'll want it but it would certainly make things interesting if there was an early S/K and P/C match.
 

VGThuy

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Although it would be totally against USFS’s interest to invite P/C to Skate America, it would be awesome for the attendees there if they did. Imagine what a surprise it would be for those who already bought tickets not expecting to see them there. Of course, I totally predict to see P/C at IDF and NHK.
 

Dobre

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That is a possibility - it would give them a week between competitions also. I wonder what S/K would choose if P/C wanted to go to CoC. Maybe choose NHK instead?
As far as H&D go, though, I don't think it changes things.
it would certainly make things interesting if there was an early S/K and P/C match.
I don't picture the Chinese Fed doing this without clueing in the Russian Fed. (Japan, yes. Hence, of course Zhulin thinks COC is a better idea).
 

Karen-W

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As far as H&D go, though, I don't think it changes things.

I don't picture the Chinese Fed doing this without clueing in the Russian Fed. (Japan, yes. Hence, of course Zhulin thinks COC is a better idea).
I agree. I think H/D will probably want NHK regardless of whether they're facing S/K or P/C; and not doubt the Chinese fed will likely clue the Russian fed in if they were inviting P/C and let S/K make a choice of a different event if they want.
 

taz'smum

as @Jesche says - мама knows best
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No, they only have to have that passport when they check in at the competition. I think they can travel on any passport/visa.
That is correct!

When Z/G travel to the US, they get the ESTA visa for their French/Australian passports.
So, those are the passports that they show on arrival at the US airport.
They then need to show their Russian passports at the competition itself.

When they are boarding the flight to the US, they are asked for their Russian passports.
When the check-in can see there is no US visa in their Russian passport, they ask if they have another passport.
The same happens in reverse, returning to Russia.
 

litenkyckling

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It could be in SC's best interest to invite P/C - having G/P go head to head with them there and in France would put them in a likely to silver medal route to the final, which might not be the worst way? Idk - the possible assignments this year are so hard to predict!
 

Colonel Green

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It could be in SC's best interest to invite P/C - having G/P go head to head with them there and in France would put them in a likely to silver medal route to the final, which might not be the worst way?
Why exactly would that be in Skate Canada’s interest to invite P/C? If they don’t, G/P are gold at best and silver at worst; if they do, it’s silver at best, bronze at worst.
 

Karen-W

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Why exactly would that be in Skate Canada’s interest to invite P/C? If they don’t, G/P are gold at best and silver at worst; if they do, it’s silver at best, bronze at worst.
It depends on which of the 4-6 seeded teams is also assigned to SC. I can’t see G/P losing to G/F and probably not to S/B either. The only risk for a bronze would be if C/B are also there, IMO.
 

Colonel Green

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It depends on which of the 4-6 seeded teams is also assigned to SC. I can’t see G/P losing to G/F and probably not to S/B either. The only risk for a bronze would be if C/B are also there, IMO.
Regardless of who is assigned as the second seed, inviting P/C is still Skate Canada throwing away its team's chance at the gold medal for...what?

S/B are the Russian #2; they're always going to be a threat to win (they beat Hubbell/Donohue in the free dance at SkAm the last time it was held in a proper Grand Prix).
 

Dobre

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I could totally picture SC inviting G&F and the judges putting them behind F-B&S.
(Note: See Gilles & Poirier finishing over Cappellini & Lanotte in 2016-17).

But who knows? Maybe SC will invite that team that beat Virtue & Moir in the FD the last time they were there.
 
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Colonel Green

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But who knows? Maybe SC will invite that team that beat Virtue & Moir in the FD the last time they were there.
As they are the fourth seed, if they want to go it would by custom be their invitation.

Moreover, they're coached by I.A.M., who are a major part of Skate Canada's web of alliances in the ice dance world.
 

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