Korean skating news & updates

[Theatregirl1122]

Just to be clear - yes, the news reports DO confirm that there were photos taken. Not necessarily of the incident in the dorm between female A and male C, but that female B took photos of female A without her consent and then showed them to male C.

Correct. B has been sanctioned for taking sexually explicit photos of A. There is no reporting that there were photos of the incident.

 

[Allskate]

Correct. B has been sanctioned for taking sexually explicit photos of A. There is no reporting that there were photos of the incident.

An article I read said "A allegedly invited C, a junior of the opposite sex, to his dormitory and acted in a way that made him feel sexually uncomfortable, and B took a sexually offensive photo of A without her consent and showed it to C."

But some people are talking about sexual assault - a term which embraces a wide array of actions including rape - and are talking about "sexually explicit" images, which IMO is not necessarily the same as "sexually offensive."

What actually happened - or even allegedly happened - is very unclear. So, I don't see how it is possible to have an informed opinion about the proper punishment. I'm not sure we really should find out all the details as there is a minor involved and this is not directly related to skating and could get quite explicit, including a possible sexual assault, details of a possible non-consensual photo, and details of a possible relationship between one of the women and the junior skater. But, if the true details are not nearly as bad as what is being claimed by many about the female skaters, I could see why the female skaters would think it unfair if they were not allowed to publicly defend themselves.

 

[Allskate]

This news report, based on blurred video, makes it pretty clear who athlete A is: https://n.news.naver.com/article/422/0000666654?sid=161

while also mentioning that (per Google translate), "It is known that the two players were once in a romantic relationship."

Google translate is really not good, which is one more reason we should be careful what we rely on.

This is part of the translation I got from this article. This quote refers to A as a male, which pretty clearly isn't true. It also suggests that A's violation was sexual harassment, which consisted of inviting the male junior skater to the female dormitory. That doesn't seem to be what others are suggesting happened. Someone/something is reporting and/or translating incorrectly.

"Last month, a member of the women's singles national figure skating team was investigated by the Ice Skating Federation after it was revealed that she had been drinking alcohol at her hotel during a training camp in Italy.

During the investigation, additional allegations of sexual harassment of a male junior who was a minor came to light.

The federation found that A had sexually disturbed player B by inviting him to his dormitory, and the case was handed over to the Sports Integrity Commission.

The two players were reportedly in a relationship at one point.

On the 20th, the committee imposed a three-year suspension on A and a reprimand on B for violating the training regulations by visiting a dormitory of the opposite sex." [/unquote]

 

[Theatregirl1122]

The pronoun issues are very common with google translate.

 

[canbelto]

Many Asian languages do not have a "he" or "she" pronoun.

 

[Allskate]

Many Asian languages do not have a "he" or "she" pronoun.

I think you're missing my broader point. I have seen reports of quite different alleged behavior - from "sexual assault," (which has been interpreted to be molestation by some) to a very different report of "sexual harassment" that consisted of skater A "sexually disturbing" the minor skater simply by inviting him to the female dormitory. There is something wrong with at least some of the reporting/translating.

 

[On My Own]

I think you're missing my broader point. I have seen reports of quite different alleged behavior - from "sexual assault," (which has been interpreted to be molestation by some) to a very different report of "sexual harassment" that consisted of skater A "sexually disturbing" the minor skater simply by inviting him to the female dormitory. There is something wrong with at least some of the reporting/translating.

Sources? I don't know about others, but I made sure to stick to AnythingGOE and Kteam translations for the allegations regarding behaviour.

The only thing I used google translate on was Stephanie's link earlier, and I did not use it for my knowledge of the allegations.

 

[Karen-W]

I think you're missing my broader point. I have seen reports of quite different alleged behavior - from "sexual assault," (which has been interpreted to be molestation by some) to a very different report of "sexual harassment" that consisted of skater A "sexually disturbing" the minor skater simply by inviting him to the female dormitory. There is something wrong with at least some of the reporting/translating.

I don't know that there is necessarily anything wrong with the translations. There are, in my opinion, at least three other possible reasons why you are perceiving there to be some discrepancy in the alleged behavior.

1) there original Korean word used in the KSU press release does not have a direct translation into English and is, therefore, itself ambiguous - maybe it means 'sexual assault' or maybe it means 'sexual harassment' or maybe some combination of the two. The English language has certainly evolved with respect to our understanding and usage of the two terms and while we understand them to mean two different things, especially from a legal perspective, Korean law may not have that same level of nuance.

2) you are reading news stories from multiple Korean news outlets and those sources may be using two different words which Google translate is correctly translating into 'sexual assault' in one article and 'sexual harassment' in another article.

3) different media outlets are providing different levels of detail surrounding the allegations per the guidance of their legal departments.

There are at least two different Xwitter accounts which have been linked in this thread over the past few days that have provided what seem to be more accurate translations of different print news reports than what we're going to get by relying upon Google Translate to do it's usual not-quite-there job. Trust me, I get it. I use the Google & Meta translate feature a lot for translating the Portuguese and Spanish social media of the youth group I was involved with because there are a lot of chapters spreading throughout South America and if I didn't understand the nuances of the organization I'd get lost with some of the translations that Google and Meta provide.

 

[On My Own]

I don't know that there is necessarily anything wrong with the translations. There are, in my opinion, at least three other possible reasons why you are perceiving there to be some discrepancy in the alleged behavior.

1) there original Korean word used in the KSU press release does not have a direct translation into English and is, therefore, itself ambiguous - maybe it means 'sexual assault' or maybe it means 'sexual harassment' or maybe some combination of the two. The English language has certainly evolved with respect to our understanding and usage of the two terms and while we understand them to mean two different things, especially from a legal perspective, Korean law may not have that same level of nuance.

2) you are reading news stories from multiple Korean news outlets and those sources may be using two different words which Google translate is correctly translating into 'sexual assault' in one article and 'sexual harassment' in another article.

3) different media outlets are providing different levels of detail surrounding the allegations per the guidance of their legal departments.

There are at least two different Xwitter accounts which have been linked in this thread over the past few days that have provided what seem to be more accurate translations of different print news reports than what we're going to get by relying upon Google Translate to do it's usual not-quite-there job. Trust me, I get it. I use the Google & Meta translate feature a lot for translating the Portuguese and Spanish social media of the youth group I was involved with because there are a lot of chapters spreading throughout South America and if I didn't understand the nuances of the organization I'd get lost with some of the translations that Google and Meta provide.

Google translating into English is also just bad with Korean, as another point.

 

[Allskate]

Sources? I don't know about others, but I made sure to stick to AnythingGOE and Kteam translations for the allegations regarding behaviour.

Huh? The sources I have relied upon are from this very thread, including South Korean news sources. One of them is in the post I quoted. I'm not sure why AnythingGOEs or KTeam are experts (and at least some of the posts don't explain what their specific sources are) and I don't think they even pretend to have details about what even allegedly happened. There is a wide range of potential conduct that can fall within these "reports" and I'm not confident that anyone or anything is translating specific legal/rule terms in ways that have the same meaning that Americans use. I question anyone here who thinks they know what the specific conduct was by any of the skaters and therefore what the penalties should be. What did HL do? What was in the photo taken by YY and what was done with it? What was the context of all of this? I don't think anyone here knows.

 

[On My Own]

The sources I have relied upon are from this very thread, including South Korean news sources. One of them is in the post I quoted.

Do you know Korean?

The post you quoted is a machine translation of a Korean news report. Do you know how to vet Korean news sources?

I'm not sure why AnythingGOEs or KTeam are experts

They have translators who have knowledge of Korean on their teams, which is more than many of us can say, and it is they who pointed out the different sets of characters being used for skaters A and B's offenses.

I do not see them making legal claims. They are only providing translations of news reports. If they're comfortable with translating the characters to English in that way knowing who their audience is when they do so, then I'm not sure what else is to be said.

You are free to get @EdgyIceMarks or @seabm7 to confirm.

There is a wide range of potential conduct that can fall within these "reports" and I'm not confident that anyone or anything is translating specific legal/rule terms in ways that have the same meaning that Americans use. I question anyone here who thinks they know what the specific conduct was by any of the skaters and therefore what the penalties should be. What did HL do? What was in the photo and what was done with it? What was the context of all of this? I don't think anyone here knows.

There has been little discussion on here about the legal nature of the terms used. While people shouldn't be jumping to conclusions, it's not off-base to rationalize that the term translated as sexual assault led to the more severe penalty.

There is a wide range of potential conduct that can fall under "sexual assault" and "sexual harassment" even in English.

 

[Allskate]

They have translators who have knowledge of Korean on their teams, which is more than many of us can say, and it is they who pointed out the different sets of characters being used for skaters A and B's offenses.

From what documents and sources? They don't always say. And more importantly, I don't see them explaining any particular conduct. I'm not willing to assume any particular conduct based on the penalty. IMO, penalties (or lack thereof) aren't always commensurate with the severity of the particular conduct. At least one of the skaters is reportedly claiming that the penalty is too severe. Who knows if that is true? Not us. Because we don't know what the conduct was. Again, what was HL's specific conduct? What was in the photo and what did YY do with it? We know the specific allegations against Sorenson. This is quite different.

There is a wide range of potential conduct that can fall under "sexual assault" and "sexual harassment" even in English.

Yes. That's one of my points.

 

[On My Own]

From what documents and sources?

They have literally linked them in their tweets.

And more importantly, I don't see them explaining any particular conduct.

Because it's not mentioned. They are translating news. It's not in their place to "explain" conduct when it's not mentioned.

The skaters do have the right to appeal, and again it makes sense to not jump to condemning them until we know all the details and what the result of their appeals is, but that's not what happens on the internet whenever cases like these come to surface, no matter for who.

Yes, that's exactly what I feel when I read your posts.

 

[seabm7]

My two cents: The articles from the Korean news agencies are carefully worded to restrict the amount of information available to general public. Usually,

• "성추행" covers a broad range of problems
• "성희롱" is sexual harrassment

A minor is involved. The Korean laws require strict protection. It is highly likely the details of what happened will not be revealed ever. Trying to translate the articles via various angles will not reveal them.

 

[LoisAGOEs]

They have translators who have knowledge of Korean on their teams, which is more than many of us can say, and it is they who pointed out the different sets of characters being used for skaters A and B's offenses.

I do not see them making legal claims. They are only providing translations of news reports. If they're comfortable with translating the characters to English in that way knowing who their audience is when they do so, then I'm not sure what else is to be said.

We (AnythingGOEs) do have some translators in our team, we don’t have a Korean translator so we were relying on google translate at first (though we do our best to comb through things to get things as close as possible before posting). That is why we added to the Twitter thread with the more accurate translation from someone who knew the language in that it wasn’t just sexual harassment but more accurately sexual assault/molestation.

Ultimately, we’re always just trying our best to get the news out there for people.

 

[On My Own]

We (AnythingGOEs) do have some translators in our team, we don’t have a Korean translator so we were relying on google translate at first (though we do our best to comb through things to get things as close as possible before posting). That is why we added to the Twitter thread with the more accurate translation from someone who knew the language in that it wasn’t just sexual harassment but more accurately sexual assault/molestation.

Ultimately, we’re always just trying our best to get the news out there for people.

Then I have to suggest putting this information in your tweets the next time you dispatch important news like this, and question why you didn't this time.

And I suggest making a carrd containing this info and sticking it into your bio with what languages your translators are fully comfortable with, if not your website. You are a source of news for a lot of skating fans online, so your word will be taken as gospel in many cases. I even saw screenshots of your tweets being posted on some Chinese social media.

 

[LoisAGOEs]

Then I have to suggest putting this information in your tweets the next time you dispatch important news like this, and question why you didn't this time.

And I suggest making a carrd containing this info and sticking it into your bio with what languages your translators are fully comfortable with, if not your website. You are a source of news for a lot of skating fans online, so your word will be taken as gospel in many cases. I even saw screenshots of your tweets being posted on some Chinese social media.

We always post the sources of where the information is coming from, and there is almost always more information in those links because the character limit on Twitter minimises how much you can post. What we’re posting is a summary, and if we make something that could be considered an error, we post a correction or add things so it’s clarified.

Unless we claim to be the source of something, with an exclusive or one of our interviews/mixed-zone quotes, etc., we’re not the source.

 

[On My Own]

We always post the sources of where the information is coming from, and there is almost always more information in those links because the character limit on Twitter minimises how much you can post. What we’re posting is a summary, and if we make something that could be considered an error, we post a correction or add things so it’s clarified.

Unless we claim to be the source of something, with an exclusive or one of our interviews, etc., we’re not the source.

And I'm saying you could end your tweet threads with the words that it's at least partly based on machine translation when that's the case. That's it. Ultimately, most aren't going to post what Mavhanna said, as was the case here: https://www.douban.com/group/topic/307671695/?_i=9308163lYAqOVz

Whether you're a source or not, it's still going to be the case your translations of news are going to be considered gospel. I'm not trying to minimize the work you do, but it's certainly an additional thing you ought to be doing, given your reach within the fandom.

 

[airgelaal]

Hae-in interview

뉴스 : 네이버스포츠

m.sports.naver.com

 

[Willin]

Guess we finally have some more official confirmation about who athlete A is.

It's interesting to see her use the same defense a lot of male offenders use when in the same position - being in a relationship does not mean you can't commit sexual misconduct.

 

[Vagabond]

Guess we finally have some more official confirmation about who athlete A is.

It's interesting to see her use the same defense a lot of male offenders use when in the same position - being in a relationship

The Internet translation refers to what she admits to as a "light skinship," which also sounds like something a man might admit to when accused of inappropriate behavior with a minor.

ETA:

skinship, n. meanings, etymology and more | Oxford English Dictionary

skinship, n. meanings, etymology, pronunciation and more in the Oxford English Dictionary

www.oed.com

 

[Rukia]

The Internet translation refers to what she admits to as a "light skinship," which also sounds like something a man might admit to when accused of inappropriate behavior with a minor.

lol skinship is a term I see in reference to kdramas all the time when fans are talking about wanting to see more physical manifestations of the relationship

idk if that applies here though it's just funny to see that term on here

 

[EdgyIceMarks]

Haein Lee's Instagram post

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

 

[Karen-W]

Guess we finally have some more official confirmation about who athlete A is.

It's interesting to see her use the same defense a lot of male offenders use when in the same position - being in a relationship does not mean you can't commit sexual misconduct.

She's also, apparently, trying to use her own age when the relationship began as part of her defense - that it is excusable because she was 17 (and he was 13 ). Uhm, that makes it even worse, IMO. 17-yr olds have no business being in a romantic relationship with 13-yr olds, full stop.

 

[aemeraldrainc]

The instagram translation isn’t very good so I used my iPhone’s translate feature:

I'm so sorry. I'm just at a loss as to what to say to many fans who will be disappointed in me.
As a national team, I should have devoted myself to training diligently, showing a better appearance to the junior players and not participating in the field training, but I made a big mistake in a short thought.
What I drank was something I shouldn't do even if I think about it now, and I'm deeply reflecting on it.
Since then, I've been regretting every day why I made such a mistake.
But the article says that I molested or sexually molesed a minor, but this part is not true.
It was the boyfriend I had when I was in high school last year, and I broke up with my parents' opposition, and I met him again in this field training.
Maybe because we had feelings that we liked each other, we started dating again there, but I decided to keep it a secret because I didn't want to tell my parents.
When I was investigated by the Ice Federation this time, I couldn't say that I was actually dating that friend, but when I heard that I sexually molesed a minor like this, the world seemed to collapse.
I thought it was a joke or expression of affection between lovers, but even if we didn't reveal that we were dating, I couldn't imagine that we would get such a misunderstanding.
I've received too much expectation and love since I was young, but I'm so sorry for showing such a lack.
No matter what discipline is imposed by the Korean Sports Association, I will deeply reflect on it and try not to make this mistake in the future.

From Lee Hae-in

 

[Rukia]

i do not have words to explain my thoughts right now

 

[airgelaal]

She's also, apparently, trying to use her own age when the relationship began as part of her defense - that it is excusable because she was 17 (and he was 13 ). Uhm, that makes it even worse, IMO. 17-yr olds have no business being in a romantic relationship with 13-yr olds, full stop.

Did she mention his age? And why 17 years?

 

[Willin]

@airgelaal No one's naming names, but some fans found the instagram of athlete C, and it showed pictures of him and Haein together during their relationship. I'm assuming that's where people are getting the age from.

13 is really gross. Most boys have barely even started their growth spurt at 13, while most girls are near done with puberty at 17.

 

[airgelaal]

In Korea, you are a minor under the age of 19, as far as I remember

 

[EdgyIceMarks]

Did she mention his age? And why 17 years?

Neither Lee's interview in the Naver/YTN article nor her Instagram post mentions age or other explicit details of the identity of Skater C. This is separate from the question of whether bringing up the context of the two supposedly having dated/having resumed dating (as Lee claims) is revealing on its own right.