Jonesing for GP 2018-19

[Tinami Amori]

People are always complaining about Ashley spending a "lot of time" doing advertising

Wagner and other skaters need to spend time on doing adverts to earn extra money, if they have such option, it is needed to pay for skating. . That's not an issue. Wagner had a lot of "celebrity" activities that were not commercial, naked foto shoot to promote "athletes bodies" (gosh know what for....), shot a film about her self "lalaland in the making" part 1 and then part 2, made public appearances unrelated to skating, went on to talk shows, twitted stuff not related to her skating, and what else... That is her right to do such things.... but it was time and mind away from skating.

 

[Wyliefan]

We're talking about what went on during Olympic season. Most of that stuff took place before Olympic season. Aside from the tweets, which really are not all that time-consuming. And the LLL videos were shot during training sessions.

 

[PRlady]

Shooting video, I know from experience, alters what you’re doing even if it’s supposed to be cinema verite. Her training sessions had to be altered to get the right footage, and you perform differently when you’re being filmed. So those promotional videos had an impact....

Clearly she wasn’t in good shape for the GP and her program-switching indicates she wasn’t sure what she wanted. I didn’t think she should have been picked for the team and don’t see her getting an SA host spot now unless there are no other US ladies that make sense. USFS has to look forward, not back.

 

[Mad for Skating]

How she was scored at Nationals has nothing to do with her position on the SB and WS lists. Nationals scores don't count. That's all on her.



When was the last time she went to 4CC? She hasn't been in years. Don't use "she was disappointed/angry" as an excuse. Two men with just as much right to be disappointed/angry went and blew the house down. She could have gone to Worlds. She chose not to. Her position on the WS/SB lists is on her, and no-one else.

As I said, it's her choice where she wants to compete. She's never been a 4CC girl and that's not a crime. Ross Miner skipped 4CC too. Next topic?
(Btw, I was blown away by Jason's performances at 4CC; still brings me to tears)

If Wagner had been scored differently at US Nationals and had made the Olympic team, and had she placed 15th or higher at the Olympics, she would have been at least Top 24 WS. She didn't skate well enough at US Nationals to leave any doubt that she had earned a spot outright, she was scored the way she was, and there was no body of work argument for her.

Wagner knows what happens to her body over the course of a season, and, yes, she's organized her season around that. Maybe she did the math and knew where her SB and WS would likely land after the general historical upward trend of championship and Olympics scores, or maybe she was taken by surprise. (I don't have a snapshot of the SB and WS lists at the time to be able to assess whether it should have been a surprise.) The Euros and 4C's rosters were available by US Nats and the post-Euros WS points, available soon after, would have been a good indication, since Olympics and Worlds points can be only incremental, with one championship/season counting.

She may also have been considering whether or not she would continue skating or have had more pressing issues in her life than whether she'd be selected for GP in 2018-19.

Agree! That was my point in the beginning - if she had qualified to the Olympics, her WS would be high enough to guarantee two GPs.

Basically, I'm just saying I'm a little upset that Ashley isn't likely going to get two GPs, because I really like her skating and wanted to see her at two events. Case closed.

 

[misskarne]

Basically, I'm just saying I'm a little upset that Ashley isn't likely going to get two GPs, because I really like her skating and wanted to see her at two events. Case closed.

Except that wasn't what you were saying. You were blaming USFS for Ashley not being high enough up the lists, when really, USFS gave her every opportunity to move up them.

As I said, it's her choice where she wants to compete. She's never been a 4CC girl and that's not a crime. Ross Miner skipped 4CC too. Next topic?

But in the same breath as you blaming USFS, you say it's her choice where she wants to compete. You can't have it both ways. 4CC and Worlds could have been valuable ranking points for her to move up the lists.

For the record, I also thought Ross Miner's decision to skip was not a great one too. Max and Jason went and dragged themselves off the canvas and turned in brilliant skates, and garnered a lot more respect than sitting at home.

Agree! That was my point in the beginning - if she had qualified to the Olympics, her WS would be high enough to guarantee two GPs.

And if she had gone to 4CC/Worlds, her WS could be high enough to guarantee two GPs too. But she chose not to.

 

[Mad for Skating]

Except that wasn't what you were saying. You were blaming USFS for Ashley not being high enough up the lists, when really, USFS gave her every opportunity to move up them.



But in the same breath as you blaming USFS, you say it's her choice where she wants to compete. You can't have it both ways. 4CC and Worlds could have been valuable ranking points for her to move up the lists.

For the record, I also thought Ross Miner's decision to skip was not a great one too. Max and Jason went and dragged themselves off the canvas and turned in brilliant skates, and garnered a lot more respect than sitting at home.



And if she had gone to 4CC/Worlds, her WS could be high enough to guarantee two GPs too. But she chose not to.

All right, let's try to discuss this calmly.

I do personally believe Ashley was gypped at Nationals. That, COMBINED with her decision to skip 4CC, led to this situation. Neither party is 100% guilt-free.
As for Ross, it was his decision and I won't judge, but I'm happy Jason and Max had their great skates and I'm proud of how they handled it.
Anyway, I'm not asking you to love Ashley or anything, I'm just saying it takes two to tango.

 

[misskarne]

Anyway, I'm not asking you to love Ashley or anything, I'm just saying it takes two to tango.

Except in this case, it really doesn't.

Even if her WS is low, what about her SB? She had plenty of opportunity to put that up nice and high. Max remained at SB13 by the end of the season with a score from September but also scored within a few points of that score twice more that season. Ashley chose not to do any Challenger events. It's really all on her.

 

[mysticchic]

I don't see how she was "gypped" at nationals. She should know not to take nationals for granite. She skated like a person who hadn't put in the work and figured there was no way USFS was going to leave her off the team because of her national exposure and TV commercials. Yes, the judges could have given her higher PCS. But for years we have been talking about jacking up skaters and how unfair it was to those (Ross Minor)that were held back. After Ross, I didn't see how they were going to do that again.
Ashley wasn't going to make the podium at the Os. So why not send some girls that might in the future. Bradie deserved to go. So did Nagasu. I still am on the bubble about Karen.
PRLady is right. A commercial shot is not a few minute thing. Not to mention Ashley was all over the place doing this shoot and that interview. Even her own coach was put off with her lack of work.

 

[mysticchic]

Ashley can still get 2 GP. If she shows she is willing to work, USFS will get her out there. SC, Russia, China will all take her.

 

[Mad for Skating]

Except in this case, it really doesn't.

Even if her WS is low, what about her SB? She had plenty of opportunity to put that up nice and high. Max remained at SB13 by the end of the season with a score from September but also scored within a few points of that score twice more that season. Ashley chose not to do any Challenger events. It's really all on her.

So yeah, she sort of sucked at one event, got an infection at the other, and next thing you know, she's off the team. I know how it goes, but it's just tough for Ashley stan nation over here.

I don't see how she was "gypped" at nationals. She should know not to take nationals for granite. She skated like a person who hadn't put in the work and figured there was no way USFS was going to leave her off the team because of her national exposure and TV commercials. Yes, the judges could have given her higher PCS. But for years we have been talking about jacking up skaters and how unfair it was to those (Ross Minor)that were held back. After Ross, I didn't see how they were going to do that again.
Ashley wasn't going to make the podium at the Os. So why not send some girls that might in the future. Bradie deserved to go. So did Nagasu. I still am on the bubble about Karen.
PRLady is right. A commercial shot is not a few minute thing. Not to mention Ashley was all over the place doing this shoot and that interview. Even her own coach was put off with her lack of work.

Well, tbh I'm still Ashley-over-Karen at Nats but it's not like I can change it so I think I'll just put it behind me and look forward to next season.

 

[MAXSwagg]

Does Wagner really deserve a second event?

 

[mysticchic]

Another thing. She couldn't decide all season to keep a new program or skate to a program a 3rd year. I think that might have played a roll of how much she really wanted to win. To me the spark wasn't there

 

[Tinami Amori]

Another thing. She couldn't decide all season to keep a new program or skate to a program a 3rd year. I think that might have played a roll of how much she really wanted to win. To me the spark wasn't there

Wagner kept both, SP and LP from previous seasons, and i would think the expectations of her being able to perform them well were quite high from all judges.

 

[mag]

@Mad for Skating, “gypped” is a slur. Perhaps “ripped off” would be a better choice of words.

 

[mysticchic]

I'm guilty of quoting that word also @mag. I agree, ripped off sounds better. I went back and looked a bit at Ashley's year. I forgot who the airline was that gave free trips to the skaters. But Ashely went on a bunch of them. She was promoted by the airlines when she did.
There was the SI layouts. The NBC O shoots, make up, openings, tours and a bunch of other things. Ashley has a very healthy ego.

 

[Lanie]

I'm guilty of quoting that word also @mag. I agree, ripped off sounds better. I went back and looked a bit at Ashley's year. I forgot who the airline was that gave free trips to the skaters. But Ashely went on a bunch of them. She was promoted by the airlines when she did.
There was the SI layouts. The NBC O shoots, make up, openings, tours and a bunch of other things. Ashley has a very healthy ego.

Ashley needed to support herself when she had the opportunities.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Does Wagner really deserve a second event?

Did Xiangjing Li, Nicole Rajicova, Rika Hondo or Mae Berenice Meite last season, all of whom performed worse in their qualifying season than Wagner did this past season? Did Nicole Schott, who got two alternates spots? I'd say she's better than them all by quite a lot.

Wagner kept both, SP and LP from previous seasons, and i would think the expectations of her being able to perform them well were quite high from all judges.

La La Land was new for this season, and that was her FS at US Nationals. She competed Moulin Rouge at Skate Canada and started to at Skate America.

 

[mysticchic]

If Ashley shows she is ready they will get her 2 GP events. She might sit out the gp. She is in Hawaii now.

 

[MAXSwagg]

Did Xiangjing Li, Nicole Rajicova, Rika Hondo or Mae Berenice Meite last season, all of whom performed worse in their qualifying season than Wagner did this past season? Did Nicole Schott, who got two alternates spots? I'd say she's better than them all by quite a lot.


La La Land was new for this season, and that was her FS at US Nationals. She competed Moulin Rouge at Skate Canada and started to at Skate America.

She's shown minimal effort as of late...

 

[Enchanted]

Did Xiangjing Li, Nicole Rajicova, Rika Hondo or Mae Berenice Meite last season, all of whom performed worse in their qualifying season than Wagner did this past season? Did Nicole Schott, who got two alternates spots? I'd say she's better than them all by quite a lot.


La La Land was new for this season, and that was her FS at US Nationals. She competed Moulin Rouge at Skate Canada and started to at Skate America.

Li, Rajicova and Hongo all competed at worlds and 4CC/euros during 2016-2017 season. An opportunity Wagner decided to skip this past season.

 

[Mad for Skating]

@Mad for Skating, “gypped” is a slur. Perhaps “ripped off” would be a better choice of words.

Okay then, I'll say she was "ripped off".

 

[kwanfan1818]

She's shown minimal effort as of late...

Li, Rajicova and Hongo all competed at worlds and 4CC/euros during 2016-2017 season.

Li and Rajicova didn't make the FS at Worlds in Milano, and that was without the people who skated the Olympics and skipped Worlds.

 

[euterpe]

Didn't Ashley say she was taking this season off? So she probably wasn't interested in the 2018 GP anyway.

 

[Enchanted]

Li and Rajicova didn't make the FS at Worlds in Milano, and that was without the people who skated the Olympics and skipped Worlds.

But we have no idea whether they will be in GP or not. The assignments for the next season have not even been announced yet. Last season they earned their assignments fairly.

 

[Sylvia]

Didn't Ashley say she was taking this season off?

She has yet to say anything publicly about her plans, AFAIK. Arutunian reportedly said something to a Russian journalist about her making a decision later this summer: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/u-s-ladies-22-no-more-carrots.103716/page-10#post-5359578

 

[kwanfan1818]

But we have no idea whether they will be in GP or not. The assignments for the next season have not even been announced yet. Last season they earned their assignments fairly.

You don't "earn" spots by whether or not you competed at Worlds unless you are Top 12 (singles) or Top 10 (pairs/dance).

The original question was whether Wagner deserves *two* spots. Rajicova earned/was guaranteed one spot as Top 24 WS at the end of 2016-17. Otherwise, she was SB39 from 2017 Euros. Li was SB40 -- earned at WTT, not Worlds or 4C's or GP -- and wasn't guaranteed any spots. Each got two in the initial selection, Li a host spot.

Wagner is SB38 from Skate Canada. I don't see what makes her less worthy is terms of the lists, ie, absolute points/scores, based on recent assignment history. In terms of selections, there are many reasons why hosts would give Li (SB48), Rajicova (SB47), Meite (SB55), etc. more than one spot and skip Wagner: hosts with few other options (Li, Meite), none are likely to be a true contender -- Wagner still is much more of a threat, if not to the hosts' #1's, then to their other picks -- horse trading, ties between Feds, etc. The only thing Wagner has in common with Li and Meite is that their Feds can be equally ephemeral, and, yes, USFS can decide that Wagner is unmotivated and deserves no consideration based on turning down 4C's and Worlds, since no one has argued that doing so conflicts with USFS rules and policies.

 

[Tinami Amori]

She (Wagner) has yet to say anything publicly about her plans, AFAIK.

that /\ /\ /\

 

[tony]

If the USFS wants Ashley to go away, they will make it happen. The message was very clear at Nationals following Skate America/the ‘laziness’ if you will, and I really don’t see why she would stay in at this point. I think she was banking on having the post-Olympic ventures that Mirai and Adam have gotten, and she knows a 10th or so at Worlds 2019 is going to get next to no attention because everyone goes back to forgetting about skating.

I felt bad for her for all of five minutes at Nationals. She was once again judged generously with the jumps (albeit, most of them are), but then it was like she believed immediately after that a sub-par skate was definitely deserving of an Olympic ticket.

 

[alchemy void]

If Ashley shows she is ready they will get her 2 GP events. She might sit out the gp. She is in Hawaii now.

All this analysis over Ashley’s Grand Prix status and she probably doesn’t even want to do it.

However, if she somehow was really serious about competing next season, she could try for a Grand Prix event. If that doesn’t happen, and the USFS sees she’s training well, I guarantee she would have her pick of Challenger events to make a comeback and prove she’s serious.

 

[mysticchic]

for Skate America, I am guessing Hubbell and Donohue (seeded), Bradie, Nathan (seeded), and Alexa and Chris.