From Russia with Love [#33]: Summer 2019

Status
Not open for further replies.

hanca

Values her privacy
Messages
11,370
I agree with this completely. It's the 'Bambi Lutz' that I hate the most. You know, bend right down at the waist and then toothpick legs hammering down into the ice and legs flailing in the air. I never understand how one of Liza's lutz jumps isn't a million points higher than a Bambi Lutz. No amount of steps into a Bambi Lutz should justify the points some of them are given.

Mocking a skater’s technique will not make the jump magically disappear. If the skater landed the jump, they deserve the points for the jump. Who was the unfortunate skater that earned your nickname Bambi?
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Three A's, T&M, P&C
Messages
50,688
Yep, with current scoring system it won’t be enough, but I always wonder why she doesn’t get high GOEs for her absolutely wonderful jumps executed with great height and ease, when other skaters like all those Tutberidze juniors can easily get +4 only because they hold some ugly transition/position on the landing for like 1 second :rolleyes:

I mean, we all know that Liza doesn’t deserve high 8s or 9s in PCS , but nor does some of the up-coming juniors...
But at least give her the GOEs she deserves!

ITA. There must be differentiation between perfectly executed jumps and barely completed ones. That is supposed to be the purpose of GOEs.
 

starrynight

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,787
Who was the unfortunate skater that earned your nickname Bambi?

Several ones or maybe even lots over the last 5 years or so (I'm actually thinking of at least 6 or more skaters in my immediate mind). It's actually really common - to be honest far more common that a good quality lutz. Laboriously pitching at the waist and hammering down the leg into the lutz happens a lot. And then when the girls that do it are very very little, there's legs everywhere. Because they are so little, there’s big spaces between their legs as they rotate and it just adds to the visual impression of flying legs lol. But there’s some skaters who have grown out of it nicely though.

I think that a lot of people - especially those who mostly watch juniors- just believe that’s what a lutz looks like.
 
Last edited:

zebraswan

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,199
Kozlovsky lifts don't look secure to me, Galliamov lifts are strong, sure they stop a bit when putting her down but that is all. M/G throws and jumps are much bigger too. M/G actually have a higher ceiling potential, they are raw power skaters capable of huge upgrade than B/K.

None of that means they will be more successful this season. Judges don't judge based on potential and they aren't going to be doing side to side comparisons if they aren't in the same competition. There are also other factors that influence them like the packaging, artistry, etc. I saw M/G live 2x last season and they are solid, but I don't fully get the "two skating as one" vibe from them, not yet. The programs are fine, not masterpieces. The costumes look cheap and juniorish. They are more charismatic than P/K, but that's not saying much. B/K are definitely more charismatic and while the new programs didn't blow me away at the test skates, I trust Moskvina's team to make them as good as can be. B/K are quite sophisticated considering how young they still are.

We don't really know what will happen with any of these pairs, let's face it. The ones that last are few and far between.
 

zoe111

Well-Known Member
Messages
533
I feel like Tukt is a very one-dimensional skater who has staked everything on her jumps, esp the 3A. That by itself is not enough when current competitors can do both jumps and everything else.
This. It is my big issue with her skating. She has a triple axel but almost nothing else in the actual skating, choreography or spins realm. Even though you can’t really compare across competitions, Med with not the best technical performance in the free scored 2 points higher at Autumn classic, as well as in the short.
 

hanca

Values her privacy
Messages
11,370
She doesn't need all, she just needs one. Valieva would be enough, the As will be carrying her to the podium.
She needs two, just in case the main one get some last minute injury problems like Medvedeva did. It is always good to have one spare, and if both of them work out, it is nice to have a gold and silver medals. A bit greedy, but the competition may push them to work harder.
 

hanca

Values her privacy
Messages
11,370
Well, she has 4 right now and I see no reason why wouldn't she have 3-4 by 2022
I think there is a very good chance that she will have two healthy skaters ready for Olympics. There are not only four A, but there will be Kanysheva who could also do well, Khromykh and Usatcheva who may not be as good as the rest but many things can happen in two years time, and Valieva will be also senior eligible for the Olympics. So all Tutberidze needs is two out of those eight, that’s pretty likely thing to happen.
 

starrynight

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,787
The whole Russian ladies scene just needs to make sure they don't all cannibalise each other by 2022 lol.

Reading on other forums, all the fans are just shredding to bits all the skaters to prop one or the other up.

I'm just curious as to when all of the happy '4A harmony' will end. At the moment, I think a lot of the fans view the success of those girls as being entirely interchangeable. As in as long as an Eteri girl wins, it doesn't matter which one. Just curious to see if that changes by the end of the season and each of the girls gets their own uber fans, or if they will remain interchangeable.

Curious also to see if Zagitova's fans (and there are very vocal ones on here) will stand by her. Or if that was always more of an Eteri thing than a Zagitova thing.
 
Last edited:

Wyliefan

Trying to appease the skategods
Messages
30,595
I feel like Tukt is a very one-dimensional skater who has staked everything on her jumps, esp the 3A. That by itself is not enough when current competitors can do both jumps and everything else.
This. It is my big issue with her skating. She has a triple axel but almost nothing else in the actual skating, choreography or spins realm. Even though you can’t really compare across competitions, Med with not the best technical performance in the free scored 2 points higher at Autumn classic, as well as in the short.

You're not wrong, but to be fair, last season the judges indicated to her that what she was doing was enough. The content she had almost got her to Worlds in a crowded Russian field. It probably WOULD have got her there if not for pneumonia. Hard to blame her for relying on their assessments.
 

Perky Shae Lynn

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,319
She needs two, just in case the main one get some last minute injury problems like Medvedeva did. It is always good to have one spare, and if both of them work out, it is nice to have a gold and silver medals. A bit greedy, but the competition may push them to work harder.
The Heir and "the Spare". Who they are is irrelevant. Tutberidze will move on to the next batch when the Olympic cycle is over.
 

hanca

Values her privacy
Messages
11,370
The Heir and "the Spare". Who they are is irrelevant. Tutberidze will move on to the next batch when the Olympic cycle is over.
My guess is that it will be one of the ‘older ones’ e.g. Trusova or Scherbakova (who will be on the same timing as Medvedeva was, it will be their third senior season) against one of the new babies (e.g. Valieva or Usacheva) who will be in their first senior season (like Zagitova).
 

NAOTMAA

Well-Known Member
Messages
918
Well, she has 4 right now and I see no reason why wouldn't she have 3-4 by 2022

Has there ever been a coach who has had so many skaters at the top (or very close to the top) all at once from the same country? Some have had 2 but 4? :eek: The closest I can think of is Brian in the men's but they weren't all from the same country like Eteri has
 

zoe111

Well-Known Member
Messages
533
You're not wrong, but to be fair, last season the judges indicated to her that what she was doing was enough. The content she had almost got her to Worlds in a crowded Russian field. It probably WOULD have got her there if not for pneumonia. Hard to blame her for relying on their assessments.
I think though that it was ‘enough’ because Zagitova and Med generally had terrible seasons until the end. This year they both look better and you’ve got 3 new contenders in the Russian ladies field- not to mention other countries.
 

NAOTMAA

Well-Known Member
Messages
918
I think though that it was ‘enough’ because Zagitova and Med generally had terrible seasons until the end. This year they both look better and you’ve got 3 new contenders in the Russian ladies field- not to mention other countries.

That may be true for Med but Zagitova won silver or gold in every event she entered except Nationals. She was also solid in every competition except two. Granted those two featured huge meltdowns but she still skated part of those competitions well.
 

Polaris

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,250
I'm just curious as to when all of the happy '4A harmony' will end. At the moment, I think a lot of the fans view the success of those girls as being entirely interchangeable. As in as long as an Eteri girl wins, it doesn't matter which one. Just curious to see if that changes by the end of the season and each of the girls gets their own uber fans, or if they will remain interchangeable.

As soon as one or two of the 4As start getting "left behind", which is very very soon.

I laugh at how naive people are to keep romanticizing the 4A as bffs. They're competitors first and foremost, and it's everyone for themselves. Looking forwards to the inevitable drama and popcorn that will ensue.
 

Perky Shae Lynn

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,319
Real Housewives of Moscow. Complete with rival dogs.
And controlled by their own Botox-ed Svengali. Jokes aside, I feel for these girls. It's not a unique situation to have young (and sometimes unpopular) Olympic champions. Oksana, Tara, Sarah, Adelina all "came out of nowhere" to upset the favorites. Timing has always been a huge factor. But the factory feeling is new and unique. The level of talent is amazing, yet these girls aren't even percieved as individuals. Whoever falls back will be discarded like a dirty old shoe. There is no incentive for their team to stick with them through puberty. There is always the next little girl waiting in the wings.
 
Last edited:

Polaris

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,250
Everyone was raving about Kostornaia being the best thing since sliced butter last season, and now it's onto Valieva as the most ~~artistic~~ skater ever.

I'm having trouble telling them apart, in terms of both of their skating quality being so exquisite.
 

Polaris

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,250
And controlled by their own Botox-ed Svengali. Jokes aside, I feel for these girls. It's not a unique situation to have young (and sometimes unpopular) Olympic champions. Oksana, Tara, Sarah, Adelina all "came out of nowhere" to upset the favorites. Timing has always been a huge factor. But the factory feeling is new and unique. The level of talent is amazing, yet these girls aren't even percieved as individuals. Whoever falls back will be discarded like a dirty old shoe. There is no incentive for their team to stick with them through puberty. There is always the next little girl waiting in the wings.

Med has already gone through this, but the 3A haven't...yet. It'll be interesting to see how dynamics play out when this happens.
 

layman

Well-Known Member
Messages
283
Just watched Valieva's long program from Chelyabinsk. I am so impressed! That was a spectacular program, that she skated with so much speed and attack. Her technique is superior to most of the other girls. She gets so much lift and amplitude in her jumps. She skates so fast, with absolutely no fear. Plus, she takes the time to hold positions, stretch out her line, and point her feet. None of her team mates do this. As fast as Valieva skates, nothing looks rushed or thrown away. Valieva amazes me!
 
Last edited:

wickedwitch

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,877
Everyone was raving about Kostornaia being the best thing since sliced butter last season, and now it's onto Valieva as the most ~~artistic~~ skater ever.

I'm having trouble telling them apart, in terms of both of their skating quality being so exquisite.
Valieva is incredibly impressive, but in no way is she as artistic is Kostornaia. But to be fair to Valieva, you can count the women in the world who are on one hand with multiple fingers left over.
 

mjb52

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,769
Didn’t Medvedeva leave Eteri not the other way around? In what way she was discarded? There are legitimate things to criticize Eteri for, but sometimes it feels like people here are just making things up and then acting as though the thing that they just made up is a fact. None of us have any idea how she feels about these skaters. Has she dumped Alina because she has three new star seniors? That hardly appears to be the case.
 

muffinplus

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,918
Valieva is incredibly talented, and her spins and speed in her free are to die for, but she is really too focused on the elements and is skating through the music. I agree with the opinion that her short program has regressed since last year... if you watch how she performed it in shows last year, I feel like the program had better choreography and interpretation
 

Polaris

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,250
Didn’t Medvedeva leave Eteri not the other way around? In what way she was discarded? There are legitimate things to criticize Eteri for, but sometimes it feels like people here are just making things up and then acting as though the thing that they just made up is a fact. None of us have any idea how she feels about these skaters. Has she dumped Alina because she has three new star seniors? That hardly appears to be the case.

I interpreted discarded to mean discarded by fans as the "it" skater, who then move on to the next "it" girl. No one said anything about Eteri so you jumped right there.
 

muffinplus

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,918
Didn’t Medvedeva leave Eteri not the other way around? In what way she was discarded? There are legitimate things to criticize Eteri for, but sometimes it feels like people here are just making things up and then acting as though the thing that they just made up is a fact. None of us have any idea how she feels about these skaters. Has she dumped Alina because she has three new star seniors? That hardly appears to be the case.

Some people just have an anti-Eteri agenda /narrative, where she is this monster who starves children and doesn't care about anything but medals.
 

Finsta

Well-Known Member
Messages
338
It seems maybe Russian fans only like who is winning at that moment and then move on. The girls will be popular until they get second place. Then they become enemy like Medvedeva has become. I wonder how they will handle the second place backlash and hatred
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information