Downton Abbey Season 6 - PBS broadcast

[maatTheViking]

Is there one episode + the Christmas special left, or just the Christmas special?

anyway, I think Carson is being way more stodgy to show him aging?

I always watch Monday at PBS.com

 

[Spun Silver]

^ Yes, aging and acutely aware of all the dreadful changes that he can no longer put a stop to.

 

[PDilemma]

^ Yes, aging and acutely aware of all the dreadful changes that he can no longer put a stop to.

I agree with this. The events of this season have cemented the fact that the old order he treasures is never going to be the same. The cook--and a woman at that--going into business is certainly indicative of that. And the idea of the family submitting themselves to publicity to save her business--well, that's the equivalent of the Queen today pausing to pose for the paparazzi and answer their questions. Of course someone like Carson is going to disapprove.

 

[Jenny]

One other thing I have often wondered about. The characters are always using the word "pregnant" including in very formal conversations. IIRC, even in the 50's and 60's one would say "expecting" or "with child" if you go back a bit further. The word pregnant was considered a bit crude, somewhat like one would never say a lady was "sweating", or even "perspiring" since women only every "glow" until the last couple of decades.

Can't speak for England, but in the US there was a major change in 1934. Before then, films depicted all kinds of things that would likely shock many even today. And along comes William Hays and the "Code," which banished a long list of "inappropriate" stories and dialogue from movies and eventually tv for decades to come. This famously included Lucille Ball's real life pregnancy, which necessarily had to be written into her popular 1950s sitcom - the word "pregnant" was never uttered. Another famous example is the Hellman play "The Children's Hour," which includes a lesbian character - in its first screen rendition, it was rewritten to make the character long for the man in the triangle, not the other woman. By the early 1960s, another version was made following the original play, and over time the Code eventually crumbled away leaving the free-for-all that is American big and small screen now, but it explains a lot in retrospect.

I don't know if the UK had something similar or was influenced by Hollywood, but it's possible that "pregnant" was entirely acceptable in the 1920s, and maybe it always was?

Carson's charaacter has been written as more of a stodgy buffoon since his marriage to Mrs. Hughes.

Agree - he's become a caricature this season, and I don't like it.

However, they've really stepped up with the writing for Violet - such a treat in the final season! - and I think they're also doing a great job with most of the other female characters - Edith and Isobel notably, even if Cora is still just a waste of time

As for Sprat - called it! Although I can't prove it to y'all - when Edith and Lady Editor were talking about Cassandra coming to meet them, I said aloud "oh my god it's going to be Sprat!" You will just have to take my word for it.

Anyway, loved that ep - way to make me really sad it's almost over. And I'm glad we have to wait two weeks - next Sunday is the Oscars and I think PBS would have been foolish to put it up against that, and many of us would have spent Monday avoiding all media until we watched our dvr.

 

[skatesindreams]

I agree with this. The events of this season have cemented the fact that the old order he treasures is never going to be the same. The cook--and a woman at that--going into business is certainly indicative of that. And the idea of the family submitting themselves to publicity to save her business--well, that's the equivalent of the Queen today pausing to pose for the paparazzi and answer their questions. Of course someone like Carson is going to disapprove.

He can't even accept the "modern" behaviour of his wife.

And I'm glad we have to wait two weeks

There will be a "behind the scenes" program next week.

 

[cygnus]

Yes, the totally enlightened view of the main characters that Thomas did not chose to be as he was is totally out of sync with the times in which he lived.

One other thing I have often wondered about. The characters are always using the word "pregnant" including in very formal conversations. IIRC, even in the 50's and 60's one would say "expecting" or "with child" if you go back a bit further. The word pregnant was considered a bit crude, somewhat like one would never say a lady was "sweating", or even "perspiring" since women only every "glow" until the last couple of decades.

I remember reading in Jilly Cooper's book "Class" about the British class system that upper class people are less likely to use euphemisms- it's the middle classes that tend to use the genteel terms. The aristocracy is confident in itself and doesn't care about offending people and calling a spade a spade, whereas the less self-assured and more aspirational lower classes don't want to offend anybody and tread much more carefully with their language. Paul Fussell's book on the US class system says more or less the same thing about the US upper classes.

The word "Pregnant" is discussed, and yes, the upper class would use the term. Similarly with "Dead"- the upper classes say "died", while the middle would say "Passed on" and the lower "Asleep with Jesus" or something like that.

Both books are good reading and were written in the 1980s.

 

[ChelleC]

Matthew's grave marker said Matthew Reginald Crawley and gave the years of his birth and death.

 

[Skate Talker]

Thanks for the comments, @Jenny & @cygnus. Very interesting.

 

[skatingfan5]

Is there one episode + the Christmas special left, or just the Christmas special?

The last episode, broadcast on March 6, is the "Christmas special" -- which appears to run longer than the usual episodes. My PBS station guide shows a 2 hour block, though I'm not sure that it will be that long. I'm guessing it will be at least 90 minutes long -- those who have seen the UK broadcast (or have the DVD or otherwise know) can clarify.

 

[Jenny]

Christmas in March! Kinda weird, but we're just going to go with it - might even dig out my Downton Abbey Christmas CD to enjoy over a holiday-worthy feast before tucking into the finale.

 

[skatingfan5]

Christmas in March! Kinda weird, but we're just going to go with it - might even dig out my Downton Abbey Christmas CD to enjoy over a holiday-worthy feast before tucking into the finale.

I don't think that the DA "Christmas special" episodes in the past have been about Christmas (I think that one may have featured the holiday) -- but I believe that the season finales have been broadcast in the UK at Christmas. But any excuse to have a "holiday-worthy feast" seems like a great idea, especially since this is the series finale.

 

[Artemis@BC]

There were a lot of lazy-writing-predictable things in that episode, but a couple of bits of really excellent writing and character development too. The first was how everyone told Mary some home truths about herself. I'm not thrilled with the Henry match, and not really convinced of their passionate love for each other, but I loved how Mary got there. I've never thought Michelle Dockery had any great chops as an actor, but I loved seeing her reactions to Tom's, Edith's, and Violet's speeches.

But the very best scene, perhaps the best of the season, was the pre-wedding scene between Edith and Mary. Edith's speech about shared experiences overcoming personal antipathy was heartfelt, insightful, realistic, and a lovely summation of so much of the whole series. I got more than a little teary about that.

 

[Artemis@BC]

I don't think that the DA "Christmas special" episodes in the past have been about Christmas (I think that one may have featured the holiday) ...

At least 2 of them were. The first "Christmas episode" took place at Christmas, and included the Matthew & Mary in the snow scene. And last year's, though it started as summer in the moors, ended with the Christmas party (and Robert's drunken toasts, and Bates' return).

 

[skatingfan5]

At least 2 of them were. The first "Christmas episode" took place at Christmas, and included the Matthew & Mary in the snow scene.

Thanks for the reminder. So there wasn't a "Christmas special" for season 1? Matthew & Mary in the snow was the season 2 finale, wasn't it?

 

[Artemis@BC]

Thanks for the reminder. So there wasn't a "Christmas special" for season 1? Matthew & Mary in the snow was the season 2 finale, wasn't it?

No, there was no "special" for season 1. Season 1 ended with the announcement of WWI, Season II jumped right in with the war well underway (1915?).

I'm guessing part of the reason there was no special the first year was that they had no idea how incredibly popular the show would be, so hadn't planned for it in their scheduling of everyone's time.

 

[berthesghost]

i dont find Cora to be a waste of space, certainly not this season! In a show that at times teeters on the edge of a silly faux-Austin obsession with rich young girls desperate to find the right husband, the time they take to view a middle aged marriage in struggle in interesting. Robert basically bought Cora, and didn't even seem to like her at first. The kids drew them together but like many women her age, once child rearing is done she's bored. Bored by a dullard husband trapped in a decaying world order. She continually seeks meaning outside of her marriage and he continually acts like a petulant child whenever she isn't there to coddle and praise him. It's commendable that they are able to work through their issues, especially since she could do so much better than him and probably would have had she been born a few generations later.

 

[skatingfan5]

^ Austen! Austin is a town in Texas. And for women of a certain social order in a certain time and place, making a "good" marriage was of the highest importance, as silly as we might consider it today. Glad that Cora has taken on responsibilities outside her usual realm.

 

[danceronice]

No, Matthew's grave marker was not blank. I believe it had Reginald as one of his names. I think Sybil's was, though (at least on the sides). But I agree about the writing for Carson being unduly mean, as if Mrs Hughes made him miserable. Impossible!

No, Sybil's has her name on the side, I only figured out whose it was because I caught the "Branson" on the bottom line. They both are kind of obviously out of place (where did they import that stone from? None of the other markers are made from it, therefore it's not local.)

 

[Jenny]

But the very best scene, perhaps the best of the season, was the pre-wedding scene between Edith and Mary. Edith's speech about shared experiences overcoming personal antipathy was heartfelt, insightful, realistic, and a lovely summation of so much of the whole series. I got more than a little teary about that.

That scene really hit home for me. Years ago when my grandmother died, her brother gave a really touching speech at the service in which he recounted some childhood stories - at the end he was in tears, saying he's the last person alive who remembers any of that.

i dont find Cora to be a waste of space, certainly not this season! In a show that at times teeters on the edge of a silly faux-Austin obsession with rich young girls desperate to find the right husband, the time they take to view a middle aged marriage in struggle in interesting. Robert basically bought Cora, and didn't even seem to like her at first. The kids drew them together but like many women her age, once child rearing is done she's bored. Bored by a dullard husband trapped in a decaying world order. She continually seeks meaning outside of her marriage and he continually acts like a petulant child whenever she isn't there to coddle and praise him. It's commendable that they are able to work through their issues, especially since she could do so much better than him and probably would have had she been born a few generations later.

Robert basically bought Cora? Isn't it the other way around? She had the money, and he married her to secure his family's home and name. Even more so, she ended up with no right to her own money - much of which he frittered in stupid investments.

If it really was about a middle-aged marriage then I'd be thrilled as I enjoy stories like that, but I don't see that story being told here. Robert's story is being told in the context of his family's name, house and legacy, but we've had very little character insight or development for Cora IMO.

I'm also not buying the idea that she's bored because she's finished child rearing. It's well established that she was like other mothers of the day - she saw her children for an hour at tea time and otherwise left their upbringing to nannies, nursemaids, governesses and other servants. Much has been made for example about how Mary is like a daughter to Carson, and he like a father - and this was echoed this week in George's developing relationship with Barrow. Even Edith in her special situation is shown spending very little time with Marigold, and we almost never see Tom with Sybbie, so there's no reason to think that Cora was any more hands on than anyone else.

In fact, I'd say that her biggest job as a mother of the day is happening now. Cora would be most concerned about having two unmarried daughters - the years beginning with each daughter's season in London through their marriages is the time when she'd be a major force in her children's lives.

I can see her being at a loss once the Downton-as-hospital years were over, but we're long past that now.

 

[danceronice]

their language. Paul Fussell's book on the US class system says more or less the same thing about the US upper classes.
The word "Pregnant" is discussed, and yes, the upper class would use the term. Similarly with "Dead"- the upper classes say "died", while the middle would say "Passed on" and the lower "Asleep with Jesus" or something like that.

Wasn't there an episode where Violet is talking to someone and they say something about how the elder Lord Grantham (her husband/Robert's father) 'was taken' or some other middle class euphemism and Violet says "Lord Grantham wasn't 'taken.' He died." Which sounds very blunt even to modern middle/working class American audiences.

I'm not really sure I'd buy Cora as being worried about unmarried daughters at this point. Two of three DID marry and one (the one they always pegged as an old maid) is a relationship disaster area. Sybil's dead, Mary is widowed and despite being young she's now exempt from the old-maid worries and since they expected Edith to 'care for them in their dotage' AND every single attempt Edith's made at marriage has ended in total catastrophe (seriously, 600 years before this they'd have made her take the veil and it would probably be best for all concerned as she has the Worst Karma Ever; of course if Edith became a nun her abbey would probably get struck by lightning AND found to be a font of corruption through no fault of hers just because Edith can't be happy), at this point one would think she'd focus on the grandchildren and charity. You'd think the discomfort would really be the kind of grim realization that she's closer to being the next Violet. And, really, Violet's constant presence has to be a little hard--it really has been easy to forget that CORA is the Countess. It's her house, her village, her responsibility to be the charity/social face of the family, but up until the hospital brings things to a head, Violet is still the reigning queen of the county.

 

[maatTheViking]

btw I loved seeing Edith, the editor and the spunky secretary. Nice little 'professional' woman thing they got there. Edith really seems the happiest when she is working.

I may or may not have been yelling at her to just TELL HIM ALREADY every time they were alone in this episode. The man is head over heels with her, and the romance was totally believable.

 

[Jenny]

Agree that Cora didn't seem all that concerned with matchmaking, and perhaps that was an effort to show her American side - let them find their own love etc. I was more trying to make the point that the idea that marriages sometimes face stress when the kids are grown up and the roles of the parents are less actives doesn't necessarily apply in a world where the most active time for a parent wasn't when they were children, but rather when they were marriageable age.

And you're right, as Countess Cora would have - in theory - had a wider role as patron in the county/village, not to mention running the household and a busy social life both in the country and in London. But aside from the hospice years and then being thrown into the new hospital role at the 11th hour, we haven't seen much of that either. There have been many hints that that's the role Violet played in her day - she still knows everyone, and has often told stories of parties and travel etc. At the same time, I have had the impression that she knows her place in society, and hasn't caused too many problems for Cora.

 

[clairecloutier]

Silly quiz. Which Downton Abbey Character Are You?: http://www.buzzfeed.com/justinabarc...racter-are-you?utm_term=.jfJkmR9B4#.wse2XyMkQ

 

[berthesghost]

^well, it's a point, just not the point I was making. They've presented their marriage as initially more of a business transaction than a love match, but love and companionship was found once they started having kids. Now that the kids are grown, they continuously drift in and out... The war hospital, sibel's death, the art consultant, now the hospital merger... It's about Cora finding meaning and a roll... Not what her daily chores and tasks are.

I would venture to suggest that it's Cora being a buckaneer that gave her daughters the wherewithal to survive in changing times while similar families around them sink. For all the banging on the Robert does about duty, he really is totally inept and its Cora and later Mary who really save the place for future generations.

 

[skatesindreams]

I would venture to suggest that it's Cora being a buckaneer that gave her daughters the wherewithal to survive in changing times while similar families around them sink.

Since she IS American and not "born to the role", her internal POV and expectations are different; even if she has had to adapt to the "insular" society.
Her daughters have been exposed to, and influenced by that, for the better.

 

[Artemis@BC]

Re: language, I didn't think that use of the word "pregnant" was problematic for time & place. I did, however, find Edith's calling Mary a "bitch" to be rather jarring. Not just because the language on Downton had up until that point been purely family friendly, but because I didn't think "bitch" was used in that particular context (as opposed to its earlier usage to mean slut) until later in the century.

However I did a little research and found that it was in the 1920s was when the word really started to rise in usage in that way. So ... you learn something new every day.

Also re: language, I thought it was interesting that George called Thomas "Mr. Barrow." He's just Barrow to the upstairs grownups, so interesting that they'd think the future earl would need to be respectful in that way. I wonder what George calls Anna?

 

[Jenny]

Re: language, I didn't think that use of the word "pregnant" was problematic for time & place. I did, however, find Edith's calling Mary a "bitch" to be rather jarring. Not just because the language on Downton had up until that point been purely family friendly, but because I didn't think "bitch" was used in that particular context (as opposed to its earlier usage to mean slut) until later in the century.

However I did a little research and found that it was in the 1920s was when the word really started to rise in usage in that way. So ... you learn something new every day.

If it was becoming "fashionable" then it makes sense that Edith would be the one to use it. At the same time, for that scene, it almost felt like Edith was playing the role of everyone who has been yelling at Mary from their couches - a satisfying little gift from Fellowes I thought.

 

[maatTheViking]

Also re: language, I thought it was interesting that George called Thomas "Mr. Barrow." He's just Barrow to the upstairs grownups, so interesting that they'd think the future earl would need to be respectful in that way. I wonder what George calls Anna?

I would think that in general, until adults, kids of that age always needed to call adults Mr/Mrs/Miss and that the future rank of the kid would not matter much. I'm guessing here, though. I think he would even call Daisy for Miss Daisy, just because she is an adult? I don't know if Anna would be Mrs Anna or Mrs Bates to him.

Interesting question - I am wondering if he calls the nanny for 'Mrs/Miss Name' or just simply Nanny. When the kids get a governess/tutor (shouldn't Sibyl already?), they will surely call them Mrs LastName.

 

[Artemis@BC]

Interesting question - I am wondering if he calls the nanny for 'Mrs/Miss Name' or just simply Nanny. When the kids get a governess/tutor (shouldn't Sibyl already?), they will surely call them Mrs LastName.

If I recall correctly from the various books, TV shows, and movies I've seen (and if they were accurate), the normal address for a nanny would be "Nanny Lastname." Both children and grownups would use that. Though I'm sure if there's just one nanny, calling her simply Nanny would be fine.

And yes, governess/tutor would definitely be Mr/Miss Lastname. (Unlikely to be a Mrs.)

 

[Cachoo]

Silly quiz. Which Downton Abbey Character Are You?: http://www.buzzfeed.com/justinabarc...racter-are-you?utm_term=.jfJkmR9B4#.wse2XyMkQ

I was curious so I picked my favorites first and came up with Anna. But then I picked my least favorite in each category and Mrs. Patmore appeared.