Survivor: Winners at War

[tony]

Here we go. 20 previous winners. $2 million to the winner.

 

[jkl]

I would have voted Boston Rob off without hesitation.

 

[tony]

I thought Rob, Amber, Parvati, and Kim would be among the first to go because of the connection and the amount of ads surrounding the latter two. Good editing with the Natalie exit-- didn't see it coming. I would've absolutely gotten rid of Rob but I'm sure all of them feel like he's their protective pillow as the bigger target-- which is fine in theory until they all get voted out.

It was a really interesting moment seeing Kim break down over being on the 'other side' this time around. She was one of the most dominant winners starting in the very beginning of her season, and everyone pretty much listened to everything she said. I do like her though and hope she gets out of this rut.

Amber seems like a lovely woman, but I can still remember the day 16 or however many years ago its been at this point when I saw the cast list for All-Stars, and even then, couldn't figure out how she was on it especially coming from a season FULL of big personalities. So, in short-- I'm okay with her going early

My favorite three winners are probably Yul, Sarah, and Denise. I hope Sandra and Tony stay around a while for their scheming, but I think Sarah would be in trouble the longer they are there.

Sophie might be able to coast through a lot of this. I don't really remember her, and it seems like no one else does either. I don't even remember Michele all that well during her season... and it wasn't long ago!

Edge of Extinction at least is a lot more exciting this year, but I'd imagine with Amber's early exit, this is going to give Rob more than one cushion moving forward.

 

[smurfy]

Good points Tony!
I enjoyed the episode. So nice to know almost everybody from the beginning. A few I am having trouble remembering - and I have watched every season.
I do wonder if the bigger targets will be gone early and a quiete/not a big threat will end up winning (like Michelle or ?).

Yul! One of my favs. I like Sarah too. Also I love Sandra - she amuses me. Bummed Natalie is gone.
And I like Jeremy and Ben. I have grown to appreciate Parvarti. And I do like Tyson.
Amber - seemed a bit out of her element.
Ethan also seems a bit out of the play. He may be too nice to play anymore.
Interesting how they put Natalie/Jeremy on the same tribe - and Sarah, Sandra and Tony.
And yes - vote out Boston Rob. People really seem to defer to him - even with Amber gone - vote him out- and I like him. But if these are the best players - to me - Rob and Sandra should go - and probably Yul.
Yul is so bright and they showed how he was adapting.
He will always be at the top of my list.

 

[smurfy]

One question - do you think Sandra did not know Rob would be playing?
Or is she lying that he lied to her to deflect - everyone knows they spent all that time together and would suspect they have a strong bond?
Just a thought?

 

[Jenny]

I didn't watch it (yet) but read a summary - what's the deal with those voted off? Will they have a chance to come back? Because that would make a huge difference in strategy.

Agree that Boston Rob and Sandra should be the biggest targets, but they are also great shields, and because they are (arguably of course ) the best players, for some it might not hurt to learn from them and ride their coattails for a time at least.

I wonder how much some of these players realize that just because they all won, they are not even close to equal.

 

[tony]

Jenny, It’s Edge of Extinction again, this time with the opportunity for those who are there to give advantages to those still in the game if they so choose (via this token system that also applies to players still in the game who win challenges). I’m sure at least twice in the season someone will get back into the game just like before, I’m just hoping it’s not so late causing that train wreck last time.

 

[Habs]

Yul and Ethan are two of my favourite players of all time and I'm so happy they're back. Yul is so smart. It's amazing how quickly he was able to adapt and to draw attention to the "poker alliance."

I'm kind of bummed Amber was voted out. I never really cared for her as a player when she played before (and she didn't deserve to win, IMHO), but she seems like a lovely person and I'm fascinated to see how the old school players adapt to the quicker, more intense game.

 

[Lacey]

Even before Rob, Sandra. Sandra. Sandra. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!

 

[love skating]

Go Yul! I also like Wendell so I'm glad they are allies (at least for now). It would have been funny if they had voted out Rob and he and Amber were on Extinction together. However if they had voted him out first, maybe it could have helped Amber?

I don't think Sandra's lying about Rob cause she mentions it when she's just talking to the camera alone. Unless the producers wanted it as a storyline and everyone's lying to us (which is always possible).

Anyway, so far it's fun. I'm always cautious about all returnee seasons because of the built in connections and pre show alliances, but hopefully these guys won't let any one group dominate. It is interesting that so many because they are winners hadn't really dealt with some of the hardships of the game (being on the outs, being voted out!, losing an immunity challenge!)

 

[Sparks]

One question - do you think Sandra did not know Rob would be playing?
Or is she lying that he lied to her to deflect - everyone knows they spent all that time together and would suspect they have a strong bond?
Just a thought?

She did not know. Rob explained he didn't tell anyone but Amber.

 

[Lacey]

Rob will end up with Amber on Extinction.

But someone has got to recognize that Sandra is too strong to leave in, she could probably get out of Extinction too. But remove her from the crowd, she is setting up others to get the aim off of herself.

 

[Jenny]

But surely anyone would assume that in an all winners season, on the assumption both wanted to do it, that both Sandra and Rob would be there.

I'd be more concerned if I was one of the other players that Sandra and Rob are so far into this now - having been part of the production last season - that they'd have an even greater advantage. Not that producers would do them any favours, but that they'd seen and overheard all kinds of things along the way, maybe have friends on the crew, and that both are smart enough to take it all into consideration. Especially for the winners from early seasons who have watched how much the game has changed, they are now playing with two experts in not only the game, but in today's game.

 

[Lacey]

But surely anyone would assume that in an all winners season, on the assumption both wanted to do it, that both Sandra and Rob would be there.

I'd be more concerned if I was one of the other players that Sandra and Rob are so far into this now - having been part of the production last season - that they'd have an even greater advantage. Not that producers would do them any favours, but that they'd seen and overheard all kinds of things along the way, maybe have friends on the crew, and that both are smart enough to take it all into consideration. Especially for the winners from early seasons who have watched how much the game has changed, they are now playing with two experts in not only the game, but in today's game.

Yes, that's what I meant, you expressed it perfectly, both Sandra and Rob might know too much about how to win.

 

[smurfy]

The more I think about it - I hope the Boston Rob and Parvarti alliance holds. That would be entertaining!!!
Part of me is rooting for the old school. Yul!!!!

 

[tony]

I rewatched a lot of the previous seasons leading up to this to remind myself of many of the players and games, but I have to say that Sandra's first season did absolutely nothing for me in terms of her gameplay or overall strategy. She wasn't winning challenges, she was on the outside of several of the big votes, and Lill picked her to go to the final over Fairplay ('my Grandma died') and IIRC during the reunion Jeff did the show of hands to see the result of her winning had she taken Jon. I think Sandra re-wrote the narrative, saying it was all part of her grand plan and it did her well in her second season, no doubt. But I don't think she's nearly as big of a threat in this particular crowd as someone like Yul, who may be my all-time favorite.

 

[Jenny]

It's long ago for me so perhaps Tony's a better resource here, but what I recall about Sandra the first time round was that she was one of the first not to rely on solid alliances or worry about loyalty or things like that. Her strategy was simply "anyone but me," which I think allowed for a certain freedom of play not really seen before as people got caught up in the importance of integrity, loyalty and all that.

It was particularly good given that she had so little chance of winning immunity idols, which at the time where there were no HII or other advantages was something players had to consider carefully in planning their games. (I recall as well that Fairplay said he learned to swim before coming on the show, and since then how many times have we all been surprised when a player comes into the game without knowing how to make fire?)

The other thing I remember was her hiding in the bushes and listening to other players strategize - I don't remember a lot of that sort of thing before her either. Maybe it stood out though because of two other memorably bold acts in a similar category that season - Fairplay's grandmother story, and Rupert stealing the other team's shoes to barter with in the initial scramble for supplies. I think it might have been the first season where lying, cheating and stealing (all within the rules of course) really came into play. Before that, it was all about either alliances or challenge ability.

Which also reminds me of something else with Sandra - again not a physical threat at all, but she knew herself and was ready to play her own game - including taking advantage of the fact that she spoke Spanish when the tribes were getting supplies from the local villagers.

When Sandra played the second time, it amazed me that no one seemed to think she was a threat, especially since she essentially played the exact same game. Maybe too many egos that season, but in the end, maybe there's a subtly to her gameplay that is harder to define.

 

[tony]

It's long ago for me so perhaps Tony's a better resource here, but what I recall about Sandra the first time round was that she was one of the first not to rely on solid alliances or worry about loyalty or things like that. Her strategy was simply "anyone but me," which I think allowed for a certain freedom of play not really seen before as people got caught up in the importance of integrity, loyalty and all that.

It was particularly good given that she had so little chance of winning immunity idols, which at the time where there were no HII or other advantages was something players had to consider carefully in planning their games. (I recall as well that Fairplay said he learned to swim before coming on the show, and since then how many times have we all been surprised when a player comes into the game without knowing how to make fire?)

The other thing I remember was her hiding in the bushes and listening to other players strategize - I don't remember a lot of that sort of thing before her either. Maybe it stood out though because of two other memorably bold acts in a similar category that season - Fairplay's grandmother story, and Rupert stealing the other team's shoes to barter with in the initial scramble for supplies. I think it might have been the first season where lying, cheating and stealing (all within the rules of course) really came into play. Before that, it was all about either alliances or challenge ability.

Which also reminds me of something else with Sandra - again not a physical threat at all, but she knew herself and was ready to play her own game - including taking advantage of the fact that she spoke Spanish when the tribes were getting supplies from the local villagers.

You bring up some excellent points especially about the big shift the game took that season. She did, from the very beginning, set herself apart in that town where they were buying goods. I remember one of the local townswomen had a crush on one of the other girls, and Sandra was enjoying understanding everything she had to say.

She did start to spy on the others-- I think at least twice, and brought someone else with her at least once if my memory serves me right. I may have just seen the season recently, but I saw a lot of the other ones too so it's all blending together. Either way, in at least one instance, she heard what she needed to hear and I can't fault her for that. Especially, as you point out, that was not the norm back then.

So she wasn't a terrible player that slid in for the win (I can name a few of those, who luckily were not invited this time), but I think she's damn lucky Lill was quirky as she was and picked Sandra to go with her. Of course everyone has to be lucky throughout their season to win, but I really started enjoying her the second time around.

ETA- just a completely random side-note here. I rewatched season 1 for about the 10th time recently, and things we take for granted so much with this game now were just not obvious at all back then. Going into the merge, the two tribes had even numbers and Richard/Sue/Kelley had the idea of the alliance while the Pagong tribe literally EACH. VOTED. FOR. SOMEONE. DIFFERENT that night. 5 different people getting votes from the 5 of them. What did they expect was going to happen? And I know, I know. Some of them had the mindset that it should be the weakest player. Some of them were making confessionals saying 'well I haven't voted for this person before.' I get that most of them didn't come up with the ideas that Richard and Sue had- but not even working as a group to figure out what their best bet would be?! FIVE different names written down?!

 

[Prancer]

ETA- just a completely random side-note here. I rewatched season 1 for about the 10th time recently, and things we take for granted so much with this game now were just not obvious at all back then. Going into the merge, the two tribes had even numbers and Richard/Sue/Kelley had the idea of the alliance while the Pagong tribe literally EACH. VOTED. FOR. SOMEONE. DIFFERENT that night. 5 different people getting votes from the 5 of them. What did they expect was going to happen? And I know, I know. Some of them had the mindset that it should be the weakest player. Some of them were making confessionals saying 'well I haven't voted for this person before.' I get that most of them didn't come up with the ideas that Richard and Sue had- but not even working as a group to figure out what their best bet would be?! FIVE different names written down?!

No one took the game seriously in the first season; for one thing, a lot of them just thought they were doing some kind of adventure show about survival. I will always remember Colleen saying that they used to vote for Jeff all the time until he went ballistic on them.

I haven't seen the first episode yet, but I did read some preview articles and saw that Jeff singled out Danni Boatwright as one to watch. I really liked Danni, but no one else ever seems to remember her. But Jeff singling her out indicates to me that she will go pretty far (because no one is paying any attention to her, I'm guessing) but will not win (because Jeff would NEVER give away a winner).

 

[Winnipeg]

Doesn't 2 mil seem a tad low for all the time they have to spend on this and for what they have to go through?

 

[jamesy]

I don’t think so, they were all willing to play when they thought it was 1M. If anything, the extra million seemed to light a fire under some of them.

I think the bragging rights of winning this is a big motivation as well.

 

[Winnipeg]

Wow, bragging rights to put up with all that wold not do it for me. I guess the 2 mil is ok though.

 

[Prancer]

Doesn't 2 mil seem a tad low for all the time they have to spend on this and for what they have to go through?

They also get paid for appearing on television.

But yeah, I think bragging rights matter a lot.

 

[tony]

They each get a minimum $25,000 for being on the show and another $10,000 for the finale. Not all of the previous winners have went on to really great stardom or opportunities, so a month for a minimum $35k sounds good to me.

 

[Colleen]

I think this is going to be a really interesting season. Boston Rob seems to have some sort of magic skill; getting Ben to blab (although maybe that wasn't so difficult given that Ben seemed star struck), getting Danni to back off of throwing his name in the hat. I think they would be wise to vote him off asap, despite his dominance at challenges. But he would probably survive the other island easily and have a shelter built overnight and fish jumping out of the sea at him. He is still one of my favourites and I'd be sad to see him go.

Yul is one of my all time faves - I hope he goes far and adapts to the 'new' Survivor.

I've watched every season, with the exception of Season 2, and have no memories of some of these people. There are some pretty big ego's out there - I agree with those who say that bragging rights are a big motivation.

 

[Jenny]

But he would probably survive the other island easily and have a shelter built overnight and fish jumping out of the sea at him.

but true!

 

[Sparks]

Yul is a genius.

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[tony]

Yul's technique of pointing out the obvious but subtly hinting towards it so that others take credit worked wonders for Derrick, one of the most popular winners of Big Brother. He essentially said the same thing- he would question things that would lead other people to think they were coming up with master plans-- but they would take the hit for it, and he could get what he wanted while laying low. The thing about Derrick doing it was that he was working with some not-so-bright people, so it was very easy for him to pull it off. I think many of them in this all-winners group will catch on to Yul pretty early on, unfortunately. But I love the way he thinks and I have a feeling many of us die-hards would have similar thought processes towards just about every facet of the game if we were cast.

 

[BaileyCatts]

Its amazing how few of these people I actually remember. All I know is I am rooting for Sandra and I want her to win. But I don't think she will because I think there will be just enough pettiness during voting to not allow Sandra to be a 3 time winner even if she gets to the Finals. But go Sandra.

 

[ryanj07]

This is my first season to watch since fans vs. favorites, except occasionally popping in to watch when they have Cirie back (I’m still bitter that she’s never won and can’t be on this season)! That said, I have no idea who most of the new winners are so this is kind of like a fans vs. favs season for me as I’m just learning half of the cast.

I quite liked Amber her first two seasons but I’m not too sad to see her go, anything to weaken Rob lol! I hope he follows her out soon. It’s great to see Sandra, Yul, Danni, Parvati and Ethan again. I’ve been a Danni fan prior to her even competing on Survivor (her Miss USA days) so definitely rooting for her to win! Sandra being a triple winner would be fun too!