What if Russia were at 2024 Worlds

[olympic]

Congrats to all winners and participants on what I think is a successful Worlds.

So just speculation, in what disciplines would Russian skaters have made an impact on the podium (or not)?

**FTR, I believe the Russian ban is correct, so I'm not politicking or suggesting anything in re to Russia, I just was interested in pure speculation:

I think 'no' on Ice Dance. Stepanova / Bukin may have had trouble finishing 4th in this field.

I think 'yes' on Pairs. Maybe Mishina / Galliamov and Boikova / Kozlovski 1-2, but don't know if there was a #3 pair to sweep the podium. Deanna may still have made history

I think possibly in Men - No Russian man would've touched Ilia or Yuma, but due to Adam's SP / brilliant LP, someone like Gummenik may have been fighting for the Bronze (?) . The yawning gap between 3rd and 4th after the SP at Worlds meant that Gummenik and Semenenko may have made the final group. Gummenik's inflation in the Russian competitions mean those scored of 300 aren't really comparable to anything in the ISU comps.

I think 'yes' in Women, but not the wipe out as in recent years - Petrossian and Muravieva may have made the podium but Kaori was more equal to them than previous Russian elite women. But this discipline is tougher because of the question of who is doping.

Thanks for any input!

 

[irenemulindwairen]

Congrats to all winners and participants on what I think is a successful Worlds.

So just speculation, in what disciplines would Russian skaters have made an impact on the podium (or not)?

**FTR, I believe the Russian ban is correct, so I'm not politicking or suggesting anything in re to Russia, I just was interested in pure speculation:

I think 'no' on Ice Dance. Stepanova / Bukin may have had trouble finishing 4th in this field.

I think 'yes' on Pairs. Maybe Mishina / Galliamov and Boikova / Kozlovski 1-2, but don't know if there was a #3 pair to sweep the podium. Deanna may still have made history

I think possibly in Men - No Russian man would've touched Ilia or Yuma, but due to Adam's SP / brilliant LP, someone like Gummenik may have been fighting for the Bronze (?) . The yawning gap between 3rd and 4th after the SP at Worlds meant that Gummenik and Semenenko may have made the final group. Gummenik's inflation in the Russian competitions mean those scored of 300 aren't really comparable to anything in the ISU comps.

I think 'yes' in Women, but not the wipe out as in recent years - Petrossian and Muravieva may have made the podium but Kaori was more equal to them than previous Russian elite women. But this discipline is tougher because of the question of who is doping.

Thanks for any input!

 

[irenemulindwairen]

Stepanova/Bukin? Please don't make me laugh. She is as wooden as a plank. Even during the 21/22 season, judges already had enough of them.

 

[caseyedwards]

I agree with all posted! Paris and ladies but isu permanently expelled Russia so Russia era is over

 

[alexikeguchi]

Congrats to all winners and participants on what I think is a successful Worlds.

So just speculation, in what disciplines would Russian skaters have made an impact on the podium (or not)?

First of all, I have not followed the Russian internal competitions at all and barely paid attention to any postings. My impression based on very limited knowledge, though, is that the men are still wildly inconsistent and that multiple dance partnerships have come and gone. I don't think Russian skaters would have had any impact whatsoever in these disciplines. Pairs would be most likely, but I don't think they would have more than one team on the podium since the gold and silver medalists were so strong and polished. As for women, I also doubt more than one on the podium. It doesn't sound like any of their age eligible women have stable quads any more, and GOE on the other elements if judged without reputation bias would not be in the range of Kaori or Loena.

Separately, the impact of not having Russians is seen in medalists actually being thrilled with their placements, good camaraderie between competitors, and programs with actual artistic vision rather than tackiness.

 

[Karen-W]

I'd guess that there would have been two Russian pairs teams on the podium here - Mishina/Galliamov and Boikova/Kozlovskii are still competing and insanely talented. I haven't followed Russian skating at all the past couple years so I can't comment about the depth of their pairs program beyond M/G and B/K but I do think that Stellato-Dudek/Deschamps would have been in the medal mix even with a 3rd Russian team.

Stepanova/Bukin would have been, rightly or wrongly, in the medal hunt. They were, what, 6th in 2021? Whether we would have liked it or not or thought they deserved it, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say they would have beaten GuiFab for bronze this week.

Russian men are the men-iest of all men, even more than our US guys. But one of them could have easily slipped past Adam and Shoma for bronze too because of the way the competition played out over both the SP and FS segments.

Women? Who knows? I don't even know who of them are age-eligible and who are not let alone what sort of jump content they have these days but I'm sure one of them would have been good enough to beat Chaeyeon for at least bronze - mostly because Chaeyeon wasn't so completely amazing.

 

[SkateGuard]

The impact of not having Russians is seen in medalists actually being thrilled with their placements, good camaraderie between competitors, and programs with actual artistic vision rather than tackiness.

You deserve like a chocolate cake or something because you nailed it.

If they want to compete at Worlds, then they can look at the wonderful example all of the clean skaters from around the world set in Montreal and change... because that's the direction the sport is headed.

 

[rfisher]

Two or even 3 Russian women could have been on the podium. All have the same content as Sakamoto and Levito and some have more. Sinitsina, Frolova, Petrosian, Mura (both have 3As and Petrosian has a quad), and several others who did very well this season. Besides B/K and especially M/G who are way ahead of any other pair teams, there are at least 3 others on par with those on the podium at Worlds depending on the day. Step/Buk could have contended for a dance medal. The rest of Russian dance are maybe top 10, but not medal contenders at this point. As for the men, given what happened, Semenenko (who would have been sent if only 1 could go) could have medaled. Aliev top 5 if he was on. Vlad Dikidzhi is a wild card. He's landed a clean 4A in practice but hasn't jumped it in competition yet, but I suspect he will by next season. He's on a real upward trajectory in his skating. A lot of the younger men are looking at Malinin and see that is the direction to go. The only one with strong skating skills is Aliev who is a contender if he's landing his quads. So, he would have been a maybe. The others who might have been sent if there were more than one spot (Kondrutyk or Gumennik) are on the same level as the remaining top 10. It's pretty funny how many are commenting having not watched any of the Russian skaters and have no clue who is doing what.

 

[caseyedwards]

First of all, I have not followed the Russian internal competitions at all and barely paid attention to any postings. My impression based on very limited knowledge, though, is that the men are still wildly inconsistent and that multiple dance partnerships have come and gone. I don't think Russian skaters would have had any impact whatsoever in these disciplines. Pairs would be most likely, but I don't think they would have more than one team on the podium since the gold and silver medalists were so strong and polished. As for women, I also doubt more than one on the podium. It doesn't sound like any of their age eligible women have stable quads any more, and GOE on the other elements if judged without reputation bias would not be in the range of Kaori or Loena.

Separately, the impact of not having Russians is seen in medalists actually being thrilled with their placements, good camaraderie between competitors, and programs with actual artistic vision rather than tackiness.

Is this a joke? Have you never heard of 1994 Surya Bonaly. 2009 Brian Joubert?!?! As this seemingly blames Russians for all problems to ever exist I’m sure they were responsible for sale and Pelletier hissy fits!

 

[olympic]

I appreciate the responses by all and agree that nefarious politick may have elevated S/B to an Ice Dance bronze, although G/F had the FD of their lives.

Interesting @rfisher that Semenenko is #1 in RUS right now (?) I would have assumed Gummenik, who had 3 different quads and probably a level better on PCS. If Semenenko at a theoretical Worlds could have made the podium; I don't know if he could have reached 285-290 pts. in NA

Sadly, I don't think Isabeau would have been on the podium w/ RUS presence, but I do believe that Kaori could have been in the fight for the top spot cuz the RUS women are not as overwhelming as they have been in the recent past.

Pairs definitely would have been RUS dominated as already stated.

 

[rfisher]

I appreciate the responses by all and agree that nefarious politick may have elevated S/B to an Ice Dance bronze, although G/F had the FD of their lives.

Interesting @rfisher that Semenenko is #1 in RUS right now (?) I would have assumed Gummenik, who had 3 different quads and probably a level better on PCS. If Semenenko at a theoretical Worlds could have made the podium; I don't know if he could have reached 285-290 pts. in NA

Sadly, I don't think Isabeau would have been on the podium w/ RUS presence, but I do believe that Kaori could have been in the fight for the top spot cuz the RUS women are not as overwhelming as they have been in the recent past.

Pairs definitely would have been RUS dominated as already stated.

Personally, I think Gumennik has better PCS than Semenenko, but he's not as consistent with the quads. The real stars among the Russian men are two juniors who are amazing. Sakamoto could have been on the podium, but not as a winner against Petrosyan. Muraieva is a nervy skater, but if she's on, she'd have been in podium contention. Sinitsina, however, is stunning this year. No Ultra-C but her skating skills are excellent. She could easily have won against the Korean women. The skater who would have been the most likely winner has been injured this year and is just now back on the ice. The question would have been who would have been sent from the women (aside from Petrosyan). Semenenko for sure, B/K, M/G and Step/Buk would have been given. If only one pair team then it would have been M/G. A third pair team would be curious as there are several who would have been in contention. If the Russians are allowed at Worlds next season, they could earn 3 spots in pairs, and at least 2 but likely 3 for women for the Olympics. If they had to send only one skater/discipline to the Olympics, it will be a brutal season to pick that one among all but dance.

 

[Vagabond]

This subject is almost too horrible to contemplate.

Still, unless we are going to rewrite last season too, there would have been no more than one Russian entry per discipline.

 

[Karen-W]

Personally, I think Gumennik has better PCS than Semenenko, but he's not as consistent with the quads. The real stars among the Russian men are two juniors who are amazing. Sakamoto could have been on the podium, but not as a winner against Petrosyan. Muraieva is a nervy skater, but if she's on, she'd have been in podium contention. Sinitsina, however, is stunning this year. No Ultra-C but her skating skills are excellent. She could easily have won against the Korean women. The skater who would have been the most likely winner has been injured this year and is just now back on the ice. The question would have been who would have been sent from the women (aside from Petrosyan). Semenenko for sure, B/K, M/G and Step/Buk would have been given. If only one pair team then it would have been M/G. A third pair team would be curious as there are several who would have been in contention. If the Russians are allowed at Worlds next season, they could earn 3 spots in pairs, and at least 2 but likely 3 for women for the Olympics. If they had to send only one skater/discipline to the Olympics, it will be a brutal season to pick that one among all but dance.

They can't earn more than 2 spots in any discipline for the Olympics even if they're allowed to compete at Worlds 2025. Even if a lone entrant places 1st or 2nd, they're only allowed to enter one skater at the Oly Qualifying Competition to confirm additional entries. And the OQC entrant can't be the same one who competed in the Worlds 2025 FS. So, if they sent M/G to Worlds then B/K would certainly be their OQC entrant and easily secure a 2nd spot. Same with the women - whomever they send to the OQC would get the job done. Men are men, across the world but I'd like to believe that either Semenenko or Gummenik could easily secure a 2nd spot at the OQC - I mean, Sadovsky managed that for Canada in 2021. But it sounds like their dance teams after StepBuk would not necessarily be able to secure an Oly spot given the depth of ice dance internationally.

I'm going to bet they aren't allowed back for Worlds 2025 though. That will, in most all likelihood, effectively prevent Russia from qualifying for the TE and I suspect the IOC and ISU want no part of Russia participating in that in Milano-Cortina.

 

[caseyedwards]

They can't earn more than 2 spots in any discipline for the Olympics even if they're allowed to compete at Worlds 2025. Even if a lone entrant places 1st or 2nd, they're only allowed to enter one skater at the Oly Qualifying Competition to confirm additional entries. And the OQC entrant can't be the same one who competed in the Worlds 2025 FS. So, if they sent M/G to Worlds then B/K would certainly be their OQC entrant and easily secure a 2nd spot. Same with the women - whomever they send to the OQC would get the job done. Men are men, across the world but I'd like to believe that either Semenenko or Gummenik could easily secure a 2nd spot at the OQC - I mean, Sadovsky managed that for Canada in 2021. But it sounds like their dance teams after StepBuk would not necessarily be able to secure an Oly spot given the depth of ice dance internationally.

I'm going to bet they aren't allowed back for Worlds 2025 though. That will, in most all likelihood, effectively prevent Russia from qualifying for the TE and I suspect the IOC and ISU want no part of Russia participating in that in Milano-Cortina.

The isu and ioc would never choose Russians over Americans and Canadians and Ukrainians and others! If Russia is there in any way almost no other country in the world would be. Thats why Russia is never competing again in international skating

 

[vodkashot]

Separately, the impact of not having Russians is seen in medalists actually being thrilled with their placements, good camaraderie between competitors, and programs with actual artistic vision rather than tackiness.

I 100% support the ban on Russian skaters right now, but it's weirdly revisionist to pretend that figure skating without Russians is some sort of sublime paradise of good cheer, friendship and artistry . . .

For example, do Fear/Gibson's programs demonstrate actual artistic vision rather than tackiness? What about Ilia Malinin's? Or most of Benoit Richaud's oeuvre . . . even without Russians, this year's Worlds demonstrated that there is more than enough tackiness and artistically deficient programs going around.

 

[kwanfan1818]

But we're not claiming to be The Highest Form of Culture That Anyone Has Ever Reached in the History of Man.

 

[Vagabond]

Or most of Benoit Richaud's oeuvre

How dare you?!

 

[Frau Muller]

Congrats to all winners and participants on what I think is a successful Worlds.

So just speculation, in what disciplines would Russian skaters have made an impact on the podium (or not)?

**FTR, I believe the Russian ban is correct, so I'm not politicking or suggesting anything in re to Russia, I just was interested in pure speculation:

I think 'no' on Ice Dance. Stepanova / Bukin may have had trouble finishing 4th in this field.

I think 'yes' on Pairs. Maybe Mishina / Galliamov and Boikova / Kozlovski 1-2, but don't know if there was a #3 pair to sweep the podium. Deanna may still have made history

I think possibly in Men - No Russian man would've touched Ilia or Yuma, but due to Adam's SP / brilliant LP, someone like Gummenik may have been fighting for the Bronze (?) . The yawning gap between 3rd and 4th after the SP at Worlds meant that Gummenik and Semenenko may have made the final group. Gummenik's inflation in the Russian competitions mean those scored of 300 aren't really comparable to anything in the ISU comps.

I think 'yes' in Women, but not the wipe out as in recent years - Petrossian and Muravieva may have made the podium but Kaori was more equal to them than previous Russian elite women. But this discipline is tougher because of the question of who is doping.

Thanks for any input!

Pairs would’ve been completely different.

Women would’ve had to pass drug tests, so I think no.

 

[screech]

Russian men are the men-iest of all men, even more than our US guys.

How dare you minimize how men-y the Canadians are. Nobody comes close to touching the Canadian reputation for being the men-iest of men!

 

[olympic]

I did peek at the RUS scores at Russian Nationals in December and the Spartakiade in February.

As stated. It looks like Semenenko is currently the most consistent RUS man the past couple of months; seems like he was hitting clean programs including 4S and 4T [2 quad SP / 3 quad LP] regularly which likely would have put him in line for a bronze considering the yawning gap between Yuma and Adam, although both would have likely beaten him in the LP.

Petrosyan scored around 252 and likely would have won the women's comp even fi you knock off like 30 points, especially with a 3A, although her layout suggests she is not quite as dominant as past Eteri-bots, so maybe not too far ahead of Kaori. ETA - This goes down a rabbit hole cuz IF RUS was competing, would there be increased drug tests of the Eteri-bots? Would those have extended to non-Eteri Russian women like Sofia Muravieva?

Stepanova / Bukin achieved a score of 222 (?) at one of those comps, consider it would have been like at least 10 points lower at an international competition, and maybe they would not have even been on the podium. There doesn't appear to be any other remarkable team right now.

Scores suggest that Mishina / Galliamov and Boikova / Kozlovski are easily #1 and #2 in the world, although it looks like based on RUS #3 scores, Deanna would likely have held onto a bronze.

 

[olympic]

They can't earn more than 2 spots in any discipline for the Olympics even if they're allowed to compete at Worlds 2025. Even if a lone entrant places 1st or 2nd, they're only allowed to enter one skater at the Oly Qualifying Competition to confirm additional entries. And the OQC entrant can't be the same one who competed in the Worlds 2025 FS. So, if they sent M/G to Worlds then B/K would certainly be their OQC entrant and easily secure a 2nd spot. Same with the women - whomever they send to the OQC would get the job done. Men are men, across the world but I'd like to believe that either Semenenko or Gummenik could easily secure a 2nd spot at the OQC - I mean, Sadovsky managed that for Canada in 2021. But it sounds like their dance teams after StepBuk would not necessarily be able to secure an Oly spot given the depth of ice dance internationally.

I'm going to bet they aren't allowed back for Worlds 2025 though. That will, in most all likelihood, effectively prevent Russia from qualifying for the TE and I suspect the IOC and ISU want no part of Russia participating in that in Milano-Cortina.

I also think no dice on Russia being allowed to enter a team at 2025 Worlds. Putin has doubled-down on Ukraine and well everything else

 

[kirkbiggestfan]

Lord have mercy for these poor cashiers at Jean Coutu’s pharmacies in Montreal! They would have had to do all this extra work to fill old people’s prescriptions for these 18 yo athletes.

 

[Frau Muller]

I did peek at the RUS scores at Russian Nationals in December and the Spartakiade in February.

As stated. It looks like Semenenko is currently the most consistent RUS man the past couple of months; seems like he was hitting clean programs including 4S and 4T [2 quad SP / 3 quad LP] regularly which likely would have put him in line for a bronze considering the yawning gap between Yuma and Adam, although both would have likely beaten him in the LP.

Petrosyan scored around 252 and likely would have won the women's comp even fi you knock off like 30 points, especially with a 3A, although her layout suggests she is not quite as dominant as past Eteri-bots, so maybe not too far ahead of Kaori. ETA - This goes down a rabbit hole cuz IF RUS was competing, would there be increased drug tests of the Eteri-bots? Would those have extended to non-Eteri Russian women like Sofia Muravieva?

Stepanova / Bukin achieved a score of 222 (?) at one of those comps, consider it would have been like at least 10 points lower at an international competition, and maybe they would not have even been on the podium. There doesn't appear to be any other remarkable team right now.

Scores suggest that Mishina / Galliamov and Boikova / Kozlovski are easily #1 and #2 in the world, although it looks like based on RUS #3 scores, Deanna would likely have held onto a bronze.

Petrosyan should be skating for Armenia, IMO. She has a lot of skating beauty outside the Eteri/Sambo 70 tech. I’d like to see her with high-PCS qualities.

 

[fan]

If Russia was at worlds we would all enjoy it less.

 

[caseyedwards]

I also think no dice on Russia being allowed to enter a team at 2025 Worlds. Putin has doubled-down on Ukraine and well everything else

Like Russia would ever be chosen over Japan Korea America and Canada. None of those countries would go! None

 

[Ananas Astra]

If Russia was at worlds we would all enjoy it less.

That's racist!

 

[Kathryn2001]

I'm glad to have read all these comments and have not kept up with skating within Russia, but I knew Russian pairs would have had a big impact on the recent World podium. But I have pondered a great deal on whether there would be any chance at all that the ISU would let Russians in beginning next Fall with the GP series. That, because they are letting Russian athletes participate in Paris O's this summer and it means nothing that they can't be under their flag/anthem. Which is why I have worried the Russian Fed will somehow maneuver their skaters into the ISU events beginning in the Fall.

 

[Alilou]

I'm glad to have read all these comments and have not kept up with skating within Russia, but I knew Russian pairs would have had a big impact on the recent World podium. But I have pondered a great deal on whether there would be any chance at all that the ISU would let Russians in beginning next Fall with the GP series. That, because they are letting Russian athletes participate in Paris O's this summer and it means nothing that they can't be under their flag/anthem. Which is why I have worried the Russian Fed will somehow maneuver their skaters into the ISU events beginning in the Fall.

Recent IOC press releases

The maximum number, which is unlikely to be reached, would be 54 [from Russia] and 28 [from Belarus] respectively. These numbers have to be compared to the 330 athletes from the Russian Olympic Committee who took part in Tokyo, and the 104 athletes from the National Olympic Committee (NOC) of Belarus.

https://olympics.com/ioc/news/ain-eligibility-review-panel-established-by-ioc-eb-paris-games-time-protocol-elements-agreed-on

And this re the "Friendship Games"

For this purpose, the Russian government has launched a very intensive diplomatic offensive by having government delegations and ambassadors, as well as ministerial and other governmental authorities, approaching governments around the world. To make their purely political motivation even more obvious, they are deliberately circumventing the sports organisations in their target countries. This is a blatant violation of the Olympic Charter and an infringement of the various UN resolutions at the same time.

It is a cynical attempt by the Russian Federation to politicise sport.

https://olympics.com/ioc/news/declaration-by-the-ioc-against-the-politicisation-of-sport

Seems to me the IOC is plenty pissed off with Russia atm

 

[fan]

That's racist!

Is it? I have nothing against Russian people, I just enjoy how quality skaters are now being rewarded rather than those with small jumps, questionably rotated ultra c elements, and those with major politicking behind them

 

[caseyedwards]

Is it? I have nothing against Russian people, I just enjoy how quality skaters are now being rewarded rather than those with small jumps, questionably rotated ultra c elements, and those with major politicking behind them

Yep no politics in America Canada or Japan