Canadian Pairs 2018/2019 Season News and Updates

[mag]

I think Charlie and his team should have remained and should remain silent until they have a partner confirmed. I know they don’t mention names, but this mulling things over in the press seems a tad disrespectful to the prospective partner.

 

[skatingguy]

I think Charlie and his team should have remained and should remain silent until they have a partner confirmed. I know they don’t mention names, but this mulling things over in the press seems a tad disrespectful to the prospective partner.

Yeah, but he's picking a skating partner, not a Vice President. The speculation is natural, and will continue until a name is announced - and then we'll speculate on the potential of the new partnership - and then we'll speculate about how long they'll stay together.

 

[mag]

Yeah, but he's picking a skating partner, not a Vice President. The speculation is natural, and will continue until a name is announced - and then we'll speculate on the potential of the new partnership - and then we'll speculate about how long they'll stay together.

I understand the speculation, I just think Charlie shouldn’t be adding to it. He is in a position power and feeding the speculation to keep himself relavent at the expense of hard worker skaters who want a partner just rubs me the wrong way.

 

[Rock2]

The main thing is that Charlie shouldn't be telling the media something he hasn't discussed with her. If she's on a different page based on their conversations that would certainly be starting a potential partnership off on the wrong foot.

 

[starrynight]

I understand the speculation, I just think Charlie shouldn’t be adding to it. He is in a position power and feeding the speculation to keep himself relavent at the expense of hard worker skaters who want a partner just rubs me the wrong way.

Depends who it is. If it’s Lubov, I’d say that he needs her more than she needs him at the moment.

 

[blue_idealist]

Is it just me, or is Charlie maybe growing an ego that's quite large?

 

[dramagrrl]

Is it just me, or is Charlie maybe growing an ego that's quite large?

Not just you.

 

[Mad for Skating]

Is it just me, or is Charlie maybe growing an ego that's quite large?

I agree. I loved Julianne and Charlie since the beginning, but I think it's awfully preposterous of him to think he's going to leave Julianne and get someone who's oh-so-much better. She wasn't Savchenko, but she was a solid skater who usually did a good job, and I don't think she was below his level.
A once-in-a-lifetime female pair skater like Wenjing Sui is not going to just fall from the sky and skate with him with no strings attached. Unless he plans on changing countries, he's not going to get a high-level partner without jumping through tons of hoops. Julianne was his best option out of the Canadian citizens (unless he could wrestle Kirsten Moore-Towers away from Marinaro, and I don't think that's gonna happen anytime soon). If he wants to get some amazing partner from another country, it'll be nearly impossible to get her released. China is not going to give up Xiaoyu Yu. Valentina Marchei ain't leaving Italy. And Stolbova seems to have her mind made up about skating with Andrei Novoselov whether the feds allow it or not. Not to mention, he'd have to get released from Canada - Mervin Tran managed to do that, but it's still one more hurdle.

So in short, Lubov would be a gift from heaven for him and he'd better count his lucky stars if she really agrees to this deal.

I really hope Charlie gets a reality check and realizes his mistake, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[insideedgeua]

I can’t reveal my source but I was told today that it is definitely Lubov. You can take that or leave it but I’m told that the decision was only made 2 days ago.

I know some people won’t believe anything without the source being known, but I can’t help that. I don’t bet, but if I did, I’d put money on this.

Personal speculation- I wonder how long this will last.

 

[starrynight]

A once-in-a-lifetime female pair skater like Wenjing Sui is not going to just fall from the sky and skate with him with no strings attached. Unless he plans on changing countries, he's not going to get a high-level partner without jumping through tons of hoops.

I think the arrangement of Savchenko/Massot had a big impact on the world of skating. For starters, it has inspired lots of skaters to keep competing. But it also showed how a good partner can lift you from 15th at Worlds to iconic Olympic gold in a just a quad. Although Bruno went through hell and back to get that release from France.

Maybe Bruno's dramatic change in fortunes got people thinking. The last two pairs OGMs have been one quad arrangements too. Volosozhar and Trankov came 8th and 7th respectively with different partners at the 2010 Olympics and won in 2014. In pairs it seems like if you get the good partnership, things can change very quickly indeed.

For Charlie, I think it's more that there wasn't a grand plan involving an actual Volosozhar/Savchenko-like option. I'm presuming that if he had been focused on Lubov from the beginning he would have contacted her to discuss a partnership before she signed up for Cirque?

I'm not sure what to think. I just do remember everyone saying Savchenko was crazy back in 2014, so perhaps I will not jump to conclusions so quickly.

It's also interesting that in ice dance all of a sudden this quad Sinitsina/Katsalapov are being lauded as the next big Russian thing when he spent the whole last quad being lashed for allegedly ruining Russian ice dance for splitting with Ilinykh.

I think I will reserve my judgement to when we see Bilodeau and new partner compete.

After all, we don't know what health issues / sporting issues / personal issues were going on behind the scenes.

I remember being so impressed by Sequin/Bilodeau when they first started. Although, they kind of stagnated a bit artistically towards the end in my opinion because they kept doing very similar free skates each year (the textbook Montreal Mush stuff)

By the way, I think these are the last videos we have of Seguin/Bilodeau skating together in April 2018:

https://youtu.be/2GybMYm0Us4?t=598
https://youtu.be/2GybMYm0Us4?t=372

 

[barbarafan]

Is it just me, or is Charlie maybe growing an ego that's quite large?

Well......let's just say if he and KMT got together one of their biggest problems would be fighting over mirrors.

 

[Capella]

So I watched most of novice and jr pair short programs last night from Challenge.
Overall, wasn't as ssssssssssessssssssssssssssssss of skating.

Only one clean team in jr pairs, Choinard/Ostiguy and they can't go to jr worlds. Patricia Andrew has the potential to be a star but not sure if she's done growing so won't get excited about her prospects till she's oldu u,,onooooo uukjuu m llllllllllllk. Uuúkuupppppkopppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppoouuumbmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm er. S
And thanks skate Canada foreea doing a great job of archiving the comps.

SASSSSssssssssssssssesssssssssss

 

[skategal]

The last two pairs OGMs have been one quad arrangements too. Volosozhar and Trankov came 8th and 7th respectively with different partners at the 2010 Olympics and won in 2014. In pairs it seems like if you get the good partnership, things can change very quickly indeed.

Sale/Pelletier is an example of this too which I'm sure is in the back of every Canadian pair skater's mind.

There definitely seemed to be a difference in pair skater's taking more risks to find the right partner after V/T won in 2014. Even more so now with S/M winning in 2018.

 

[Wyliefan]

That's pretty funny when you think of all the times we've been told that American pairs aren't successful because they don't stay together.

 

[honey]

Sale/Pelletier is an example of this too which I'm sure is in the back of every Canadian pair skater's mind.

There definitely seemed to be a difference in pair skater's taking more risks to find the right partner after V/T won in 2014. Even more so now with S/M winning in 2018.

I see a distinct difference though in all of the above cases (with the exception of Massot perhaps), compared to Charlie and Lubov. All of Sale, Pelletier, Volosozhar, Trankov and Savchenko we’re clearly exceptional pair skaters and it was clear that they could do exceptional things with the right partner.

While I think Charlie and Lubov both are excellent pair skaters, I don’t look at them individually and think “ugh, if only they had the right partner”. I think they are both lacking in some qualities to make that happen, and I certainly don’t see it happening together. Actually I see this as a bit of a step down for each of them. Charlie is not as strong a partner as Dylan was (IMO, of course ). Lubov, despite her many abilities that Julianne didn’t have, lacks a vital piece of skill and that is jumping. In my view, Charlie isn’t going to get where he wants with Lubov either because of this. I don’t really see this as a win for either of them.

But no harm in trying I guess, and I welcome more senior pairs in Canada.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Sand won world bronze with Kuchiki before pairing with Meno with whom he won world bronze (twice)and silver. Rodnina and Dmitriev won Olympic gold with two different partners, and neither of their second partners was previously a world contender. (Rodnina/Zaitzev competed against a pair consisting of a World and Olympic #1 and #2, and she is the original Queen.) Berezhnaia and Sikharulidze had very fast success after being paired together, which is lightning-fast considering her recovery from a near-fatal injury. Siharulidze's former partner, Petrova, won Worlds within two years of pairing with until-then journeyman (at the senior level) Tikhonov. Kavaguti became a world medallist only after teaming with Smirnov. It took longer after teaming up for Zimmerman -- four years -- to win World bronze with Ina, who had the stronger international record with Dungjen, and after Sale and Pelletier, Duhamel had greater success with Buntin than her previous partner -- his record was about the same with Duhamel and Marcoux -- and then ultimate success with Radford, who had little international success before then despite his abilities.

It's not every day that switches work to this degree, but it's more common than we remember. And skaters ' obvious brilliance can become more obvious in hindsight, especially when they can shine with someone else.

 

[Andora]

I see a distinct difference though in all of the above cases (with the exception of Massot perhaps), compared to Charlie and Lubov. All of Sale, Pelletier, Volosozhar, Trankov and Savchenko we’re clearly exceptional pair skaters and it was clear that they could do exceptional things with the right partner.

While I think Charlie and Lubov both are excellent pair skaters, I don’t look at them individually and think “ugh, if only they had the right partner”. I think they are both lacking in some qualities to make that happen, and I certainly don’t see it happening together. Actually I see this as a bit of a step down for each of them. Charlie is not as strong a partner as Dylan was (IMO, of course ). Lubov, despite her many abilities that Julianne didn’t have, lacks a vital piece of skill and that is jumping. In my view, Charlie isn’t going to get where he wants with Lubov either because of this. I don’t really see this as a win for either of them.

But no harm in trying I guess, and I welcome more senior pairs in Canada.

I think you have a point, but I have to disagree in a few spots...

I don't think anyone was considering Sale to be exceptional before she paired up with Pelletier. In fact, I'm pretty sure there are plenty on FSU who still don't think she was exceptional. But she had excellent potential and met it because she had an exceptional partner. This is why I think KMT has world-class potential, partner-dependent. But without the right fit, they aren't exactly a Volosozhar or Savchenko, who could make a metal pillar good.

Also, I think you're underselling Charlie a bit. Dylan was a great lifter who became an even better skater in order to "skate up" to Lubov. Charlie isn't a slouch lifting either. My complaint with he and Julianne was her lack of stretch and line. That's not going to be an issue with Lubov, and I think their chemistry/packaging has much more potential than either did with previous partners.

If skating wasn't a business, I'd be as upset as everyone else over great partnerships breaking up. However, these breakups have often led to new skating greats. Without the loss of Anassina & Averbukh, we never would have had Anassina & Peizerat. Or the greatest pair example: Irina Rodnina rebounding with Zaitsev after Ulanov unceremoniously dumped her.

 

[chantilly]

What’s the age difference between Lubov and Charlie?

 

[chantilly]

Also very curious about what happened behind the scenes between Charlie and Julianne for him to make this seemingly drastic decision.

I’m not sure if he had someone particular in mind, but personally I consider Lubov a step down from Julianne.

I agree Julianne lacked stretch and line comparatively to Lubov. But IMO she is better at everything else.

 

[Alvyne]

What’s the age difference between Lubov and Charlie?

Charlie is 25 and Lubov is 27.

 

[skategal]

I see a distinct difference though in all of the above cases (with the exception of Massot perhaps), compared to Charlie and Lubov. All of Sale, Pelletier, Volosozhar, Trankov and Savchenko we’re clearly exceptional pair skaters and it was clear that they could do exceptional things with the right partner.

But no harm in trying I guess, and I welcome more senior pairs in Canada.

I don't disagree with you.

I'll add Artur Dimitriev to the list of exceptional pair skaters who won 2 OGM with two different partners.

I think when you are an athlete, you have lofty aspirations and opinions of one-self which you absolutely need to have to get to the top of the podium. But these opinions may not always be reality based.

I do think Lubov and Charlie will make a beautiful pair. They shouldn't have trouble making World & Olympic teams (which I think is Lubov's goal.)

And if they can solve the SBS jump issue (BIG if, I know) they could be spectacular.

So yeah, no harm in trying.

And for them, I'm sure they would rather try and possibly fail than have regrets about not trying at all.

 

[honey]

I don't think anyone was considering Sale to be exceptional before she paired up with Pelletier. In fact, I'm pretty sure there are plenty on FSU who still don't think she was exceptional. But she had excellent potential and met it because she had an exceptional partner. This is why I think KMT has world-class potential, partner-dependent. But without the right fit, they aren't exactly a Volosozhar or Savchenko, who could make a metal pillar good.

Also, I think you're underselling Charlie a bit. Dylan was a great lifter who became an even better skater in order to "skate up" to Lubov. Charlie isn't a slouch lifting either. My complaint with he and Julianne was her lack of stretch and line. That's not going to be an issue with Lubov, and I think their chemistry/packaging has much more potential than either did with previous partners.

Ah, yes Sale never fails to be divisive, does she. I’m keeping her on my list. I saw her in 94 and thought, why is this star wasting her time with a guy who can barely lift her. Even at 16 she had star quality and a pretty solid mastery of pair elements. Just my view, but I think she was an exceptional partner. Not the skating skills of the others on that list, but they were adequate. She had plenty of other fine qualities that that some of the others didn’t. Cue the posts about how she sucks.

And no, I don’t think I’m underselling Charlie. He has some posture issues that aren’t magically going to be fixed because Lubov is beside him. It actually might magnify them. He doesn’t have a ton of charisma, and while a decent performer, I don’t even think of that as something he’s known for. Just as an all around skater, I don’t see him as Dylan’s equal. Others may disagree.

Maybe Charlie and Lubov will be fabulous together, but I’m not holding my breath. Will be pleasantly surprised if they are though. Canada needs more teams, and whatever shortcomings I think either of them have, they are still undoubtedly two of the best Canada currently has competing.

 

[Andora]

I’m not sure if he had someone particular in mind, but personally I consider Lubov a step down from Julianne.

I agree Julianne lacked stretch and line comparatively to Lubov. But IMO she is better at everything else.

Now I know people are letting their heartstrings do their thinking. Honestly...????

I remember Julianne before she paired with Charlie, as a singles skater, and she was a bit of a mess artistically. I wish I could remember the FSUer who said she needed to go in to pairs to cover up her very distinct artistic/packaging disadvantages, because they were bang on. I think Julianne has more potential than I would have expected, and she was great for landing jumps.

But, honestly, better that Lubov?

 

[puglover]

I totally agree in regards to Jamie Sale. I first saw her at the Edmonton Nationals where she and her partner made it to the Olympics. I remembered her. She had that ability to reach up to the last row in the arena. I also saw Julianne and Charlie in Vancouver before this Olympics and felt they cast a very nice spell with their long program. It is tough to stand out now in pairs and I think each team is going to need something or things to create a bit of a buzz about them. I guess we will continue to scratch our heads until we finally know what direction Charlie is going.

 

[Rock2]

Also very curious about what happened behind the scenes between Charlie and Julianne for him to make this seemingly drastic decision.

I’m not sure if he had someone particular in mind, but personally I consider Lubov a step down from Julianne.

I agree Julianne lacked stretch and line comparatively to Lubov. But IMO she is better at everything else.

They were such a great personality match. When I saw S/B in their first year in junior I thought what in the fresh h*ll is this and didn't see this going anywhere past juniors. They should be proud of their accomplishments.

I'm not here to say precisely why they broke up -- because I can't -- but I can say with some grounding that Julianne could have helped her cause with a higher level of fitness notwithstanding concussion issues. Charlie's abilities over their last two seasons together made many things look easier than they were.

Meagan has said publicly that this is where she was brought in to help. She thought she was the right person for the job because in her view they had similar body types so she could lead her down a safe and realistic path to optimal fitness. Never got that far.

So I'm a bit hesitant to go down the path of giving Charlie a hard ride. We also don't know what's happening with his alleged new partner. If it's Lubov it's conceivable they had a tryout and it went great and said it's a match, so let's put plans in place. Charlie's mistake to me was mentioning at that moment he found someone. They might have subsequently hit snags in logistics and other operational matters causing them to pause a little. Who knows? Point is, it's not necessarily Charlie messing everything up, so I wouldn't go directly to that place.

 

[chantilly]

Now I know people are letting their heartstrings do their thinking. Honestly...????

I remember Julianne before she paired with Charlie, as a singles skater, and she was a bit of a mess artistically. I wish I could remember the FSUer who said she needed to go in to pairs to cover up her very distinct artistic/packaging disadvantages, because they were bang on. I think Julianne has more potential than I would have expected, and she was great for landing jumps.

But, honestly, better that Lubov?

No problem with my heartstrings.
I think Julianne was a better skater and more athletic, a way better jumper and I think her and Charlie had more interesting and complex programs,especially in terms of content and story.

Lubov and Dylan stuck to romance for the most part.

I also generally found Julianne to have stronger landings in her throws and IMO had some lovely dance abilities in her footwork.

Lubov has more charisma for sure and was probably a better actress, but I felt they actually should have highlighted her flexibility more then they did.

 

[Erin]

I don't think anyone was considering Sale to be exceptional before she paired up with Pelletier.

I know a few people have already contradicted this, but I'll point out that there was a lot of buzz about Sale after her singles performance at 1998 Canadians, where Barb Underhill was gushing about how Jamie was competing in singles, but her heart was really in pairs and Barb really wanted to see Jamie find the right pairs partner. Jamie landed a triple toe and double axel in both programs at that competition and that spring, there was a lot of discussion online about who would be a good partner for her. Pelletier's name came up a lot, although people thought it might not work because they had already tried out in 1996 and it didn't work out then.

Also, I think you're underselling Charlie a bit.

I agree with you on this. Charlie has a ton of charisma and has shown a real ability to interpret music. Julianne & Charlie were also one of the few Canadian teams with a decent triple twist. Whether it will turn out to be a trade up/trade down for Lubov will probably depend on their overall chemistry together. And whether it is for Charlie also depends on whether Lubov can get her jumps together in competition.

 

[Andora]

I know a few people have already contradicted this, but I'll point out that there was a lot of buzz about Sale after her singles performance at 1998 Canadians, where Barb Underhill was gushing about how Jamie was competing in singles, but her heart was really in pairs and Barb really wanted to see Jamie find the right pairs partner. Jamie landed a triple toe and double axel in both programs at that competition and that spring, there was a lot of discussion online about who would be a good partner for her. Pelletier's name came up a lot, although people thought it might not work because they had already tried out in 1996 and it didn't work out then.

I absolutely agree with this. Sale & Pelletier remain one of my favourite pairs, and she has been massively underrated, imho, over the years. (During their amateur days, I mean) It's not that she wasn't a great skater, but I think she really needed the right partner to make it to the top, which she found. I don't think she could have done what Aliona did with Bruno Massot, is all.

Also, didn't she have a triple flip as well when she competed singles that season (with a dreadful short, '90s-era haircut)?

 

[honey]

I absolutely agree with this. Sale & Pelletier remain one of my favourite pairs, and she has been massively underrated, imho, over the years. (During their amateur days, I mean) It's not that she wasn't a great skater, but I think she really needed the right partner to make it to the top, which she found. I don't think she could have done what Aliona did with Bruno Massot, is all.

Also, didn't she have a triple flip as well when she competed singles that season (with a dreadful short, '90s-era haircut)?

She kinda-sorta had a flip. She tried it in the short, but it was well under and on two feet. I’m assuming she probably landed them sometimes or it wouldn’t have been in the program. Though at that point with Canadian women, who knows.

 

[Erin]

It's not that she wasn't a great skater, but I think she really needed the right partner to make it to the top, which she found. I don't think she could have done what Aliona did with Bruno Massot, is all.

Oh yeah, I agree that she needed the right partner. But in 1998, Pelletier also looked like a diamond in the rough at best where he was finishing 6th at Canadians with Caroline Roy and having one 15th place finish at Worlds in 1995. One could argue that the Aliona-d each other.

Also, didn't she have a triple flip as well when she competed singles that season (with a dreadful short, '90s-era haircut)?

She kinda-sorta had a flip. She tried it in the short, but it was well under and on two feet. I’m assuming she probably landed them sometimes or it wouldn’t have been in the program. Though at that point with Canadian women, who knows.

yeah, who knows is right. I'm guessing the triple flip was a hail Mary based on how underrotated it was and given that back then, you would often get some credit for trying the jump and standing on your feet.