U.S. Men in 2017 - articles & latest news

[ilovepaydays]

I love Josh's S. List and his short in 2015, but I do admit he needed knee bend and edging compared to other world class skaters.

Agreed about the needed improvement - I do think that Josh’s overall skating skills were getting better - I hope that he is doing well and we will see him in shows if he can’t ever come back to competition.

 

[VGThuy]

I think Jason and Adam would be a USFS (or at least NBC and Team USA who seem to be more business-minded) dream in terms of marketing and audience entertainment and selling skating, but maybe not a total dream when it comes to medal potential, getting Worlds spots and such as Max and Vincent have more of a ceiling in terms of scoring potential (though they have to execute). I wonder if it becomes really close if the USFS will do the Oly/Worlds split again if certain rankings happen (like if both Jason and Adam end up in the top 3). Probably not because both Jason and Adam have been to Worlds before and done pretty well.

 

[aftershocks]

Aftershocks said "I doubt Nathan is looking over his shoulder."
Looking over one's shoulder is just a "saying" meaning the other men are chasing the leader, not that he is looking at the past. He has always been forward looking - he said he saw the state of US men's skating and decided to change that by learning the quads he now does.

I doubt he is unaware of what the other men are doing and earning point-wise. So yes, he and his coach are looking over their shoulders, strategizing and calculating, not only for the next US Nationals but also for Olympic podium placement.

Whatever way you want to look at it @DreamSkates. My feeling is that Nathan is not looking over his shoulder at what others are doing to catch up. He's looking at where he wants to be and what he needs to do to achieve his own goals.

It ain't actually a great idea to be looking over one's shoulder in any case (and I'm not talking about the past either). I'm thinking of the saying attributed to the great Satchel Paige: "Don't look back, something might be gaining on you."

None of the guys need to or should be 'looking over their shoulders.' They've got to be staying within themselves and doing as much as or more than they are capable of! Worrying about the opposition and what the judges might do and what the fed might think will get you nowhere. Champions bring it, and they learn from their mistakes and missteps.

 

[kwanette]

I think Jason and Adam would be a USFS (or at least NBC and Team USA who seem to be more business-minded) dream in terms of marketing and audience entertainment and selling skating, but maybe not a total dream when it comes to medal potential, getting Worlds spots and such as Max and Vincent have more of a ceiling in terms of scoring potential (though they have to execute). I wonder if it becomes really close if the USFS will do the Oly/Worlds split again if certain rankings happen (like if both Jason and Adam end up in the top 3). Probably not because both Jason and Adam have been to Worlds before and done pretty well.

That thought occurred to me today. Remembering when John/Caydee and Max were chosen for the World Team in 2014. #spot-getters

 

[Willin]

Wow! Adam's program gave me serious chills. If he can keep this up, I don't know how he can be left off the team. The 4Lz was definitely UR, but it was far better than it's been in years and he didn't fall. That was gorgeous! (Can't we have like 4 US men on the team please? I want Nathan/Max/Adam/Jason all on that team!) The music as well makes for an Olympic moment.

I think unless there's an injury or illness, this hurts Jason's chances. One of Jason's greatest strengths is his consistency, and here he did not look good. Lots of little bobbles and two falls - not even on quads! He could've won this if he didn't have bobbles - I wonder if he was nervous about that possibility? Either way, it hurts the consistency argument in his favor.

 

[olympic]

I think the NHK results are good news for Max and Vincent oddly. I think one of them is getting an Olympic spot and Adam and Jason are fighting for the same spot. If Jason had been better this weekend he and Adam might have had better odds to both make it, but I don’t see it happening now. Well unless the other 2 bomb next week which I don’t foresee.

In recent years, Max has shown a tendency to either do reasonably well all season (2015 - 16) or bomb throughout the season (last year). I am relieved he is back to 2015-16 form and then some.

ETA - Is a 4Z< standing up worth as much as a 4T?

 

[misskarne]

Probably the thing I'm most upset about right now is that Max could have the skate of his life next week at IdF and still not make GPF. And that in turn could hurt his Olympic chances, especially if Rippon, getting the advantage through the soft NHK field, does make GPF.

I haven't even begun to process what happened yesterday. It has my stomach tied in knots of worry because nothing about that performance was Jason. Jason doesn't give up on 3As. Jason doesn't make that error on the combo spin. Jason doesn't skate scared. And now I'm left fretting over if he's injured, or sick, or if something has made him unhappy.

 

[Firedancer]

No the base value of a 4T is 10.30. With the under rotation the base value of Adam’s 4Lz was reduced to 9.50 and he lost GOE.

 

[Willin]

@olympic I think one commentator said the problem was that since Adam had hurt his left foot (the foot you tap with for the 4T), that made it harder for him to tap back for the 4T than the 4Lz. I don't know if that will change (as in, if it's only a problem for this season), or if it's a more permanent change.

 

[4rkidz]

Just popped in to say how impressed I am with the US men this Olympic season. I can’t pick three men as all five are talented enough to go, although I would give the edge to Nathan. I know all the talk is about the Russian hunger games, but I think the closest competitor will be the US men. I just hope they are all healthy and skate their best. I’m so jealous of those going to US nationals, it will be epic! I will enjoy seeing the chosen ones in Milan at worlds.

 

[pinky166]

Probably the thing I'm most upset about right now is that Max could have the skate of his life next week at IdF and still not make GPF. And that in turn could hurt his Olympic chances, especially if Rippon, getting the advantage through the soft NHK field, does make GPF.

I haven't even begun to process what happened yesterday. It has my stomach tied in knots of worry because nothing about that performance was Jason. Jason doesn't give up on 3As. Jason doesn't make that error on the combo spin. Jason doesn't skate scared. And now I'm left fretting over if he's injured, or sick, or if something has made him unhappy.

To be honest, I wouldn’t be surprised if Jason is dealing with some kind of injury. These were unusual mistakes for him. When he’s healthy the biggest mistake we usually see for him is an occasional UR 3axel. The only other times he’s made mistakes like he did here, he was injured. I’m also wondering if he’s trying to make sure of the lutz edge and if that’s messing with his lutz and flip.

 

[olympic]

Probably the thing I'm most upset about right now is that Max could have the skate of his life next week at IdF and still not make GPF. And that in turn could hurt his Olympic chances, especially if Rippon, getting the advantage through the soft NHK field, does make GPF.

I haven't even begun to process what happened yesterday. It has my stomach tied in knots of worry because nothing about that performance was Jason. Jason doesn't give up on 3As. Jason doesn't make that error on the combo spin. Jason doesn't skate scared. And now I'm left fretting over if he's injured, or sick, or if something has made him unhappy.

I don't know if this is relevant, but I recall that the men's bronze in Sochi '14 suddenly seemed up for grabs and some thought Jason had a shot. He really tightened up badly in the LP and ended up 9th. I thought of that scenario when I saw his scores at NHK yesterday: Things got real and he had a shot at his 1st GP title / trip to the GPF, but was skating last after Voronov and Rippon both laid it down. Maybe it gets to him if the pressure is on for him to be foot perfect.

Has their been any FS news on Jason in the last 24 hours?

 

[aftershocks]

I was surprised to see Jason Brown off his game at NHK Trophy. He's such a great competitor. It seemed he was given a bit of a break in the sp because the judges respect his aesthetic talents and his competitiveness. But it was Adam who bit the bullet and brung it. Even Adam was not at his absolute best technically, but he made split second adjustments and landed everything in both programs, and his performance abilities are always top-notch.

Perhaps (as mentioned already) Jason felt some pressure of being considered top brass with Hanyu having to withdraw? Still, that's not like Jason though. What seemingly got overlooked is that even with Hanyu withdrawing, Voronov and Bychenko are journeymen with quadabilities who are known to be capable of piling on the numbers technically, despite neither being superb artists. But both are always threats for the podium in a weaker field. I'm not sure why it was felt that Jason should have necessarily won. Of course, Jason's always been a gamer and he did have the chance skating last. But the thing is, Jason would still have had to skate cleanly and win by 3 points higher than his best ever total points (which would seem to mean getting credit for quad rotations, even if with a fall). Bychenko was winded toward the end of his free program and Jason absolutely had a great opportunity to place at least second or third.

There's no way Jason can afford to fall on both of his 3-axels! I've never seen that from him before. Last season, it turned out that Jason was injured (ironically after not doing as well as expected at NHK). I dearly hope this is not a repeat. Unfortunately, Jason's history at NHK looks unlucky: he had to withdraw in 2015; came in 7th last year with an injury later diagnosed; and 4th this year when he had a good chance to at least make the podium. The fact that Jason made no attempt to go for a quad is a bit troubling. Is it the pressure?; is it the Olympics season and he wants it so much? Or God forbid, is there another nagging physical issue resulting from his training the quad? Hopefully, that's not the case this time, and Jason will be able to regroup ahead of U.S. Nationals. What a missed opportunity though, especially since Jason started out the season so well with a silver at Skate Canada. I'm bummed for Jason. But he's never been someone who stays down. The fact that Jason can land those quads in practice means he can do them in competition. And in any case, I think Jason loves performing in Japan (so NHK is probably one of his preferences for the GP).

I'm happy for Adam. Way to go AdaRipp! It's a tough field for Adam at Skate America though. Just skating his best and weathering it will be good. The pressure in the Olympics season for U.S. guys is way heavier than for most top contenders, because it will be such a battle to make it out of U.S. Nationals. In the end, while the GP season has importance, it will be Nationals that everyone wants to head into at full fighting strength.

Meanwhile, Jason tweeted 9 hours ago:
"Today's a new day!"
https://twitter.com/jasonbskates/status/929469574474432512

Next week in France, Max and Vincent certainly have chances to battle for at least 3rd/ 4th. But it's not an easy field with Uno, Fernandez, Samarin, Ten, Kvitelashvili, Bychenko, and a consistent/artistic Misha Ge.

 

[olympic]

Meanwhile, Jason tweeted 9 hours ago:
"Today's a new day!"
https://twitter.com/jasonbskates/status/929469574474432512

One of his followers tweeted something to the effect of 'see ya at the the exhibition'. Did he skate in the exhibition? That would be some indication of a serious injury or not. I'd think he would skip if he had serious concerns of an injury in an Olympic year.

 

[kwanette]

I'm not worried about Jason. Everyone has an "off" day. He has proven to be a good competitor. All of the "four" excluding..Nathan (who will be on the Oly team)..have skated brilliantly..or not so brilliantly.I'm guessing it will all come down to Nationals.

 

[Tavi]

One of his followers tweeted something to the effect of 'see ya at the the exhibition'. Did he skate in the exhibition? That would be some indication of a serious injury or not. I'd think he would skip if he had serious concerns of an injury in an Olympic year.

Yes, he skated very well at the exhibition:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8GJgUTSUECg

In this article he says he says he’s not sure what happened in the FS; he’s usually “comfortable” and “solid” on the ice, but felt “jittery” here. It sounds like they took the 4T out at the last minute, after he struggled with it (and other elements) in the warmup.

https://goldenskate.com/2017/11/2017-nhk-trophy-men/

Really too bad for him, but thankfully, it doesn’t sound like injury; hopefully he’ll figure out what went wrong and bounce back quickly. I guess only time will tell how much this impacts his chances of making the Olympic team.

 

[olympic]

Yes, he skated very well at the exhibition:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8GJgUTSUECg

In this article he says he says he’s not sure what happened in the FS; he’s usually “comfortable” and “solid” on the ice, but felt “jittery” here. It sounds like they took the 4T out at the last minute, after he struggled with it (and other elements) in the warmup.

https://goldenskate.com/2017/11/2017-nhk-trophy-men/

Really too bad for him, but thankfully, it doesn’t sound like injury; hopefully he’ll figure out what went wrong and bounce back quickly. I guess only time will tell how much this impacts his chances of making the Olympic team.

Thank you for the update

 

[jlai]

If you look at Jason's history you will see that he tends to place well in one gp and not so well in another, and he has certainly never medaled in NHK.

 

[Tavi]

If you look at Jason's history you will see that he tends to place well in one gp and not so well in another, and he has certainly never medaled in NHK.

Forgive me, but I’m not sure what your point is: a lot of the current US men have spotty records on the GP. Although Adam has been relatively consistent on the GP in the past two seasons (3,3 in 2016 and 4,4 in 2015), he’s had quite a few poor results, including a 10th place finish at Skate Canada in 2014.

 

[jlai]

My point is no need to panic or assume an injury?

 

[Tavi]

My point is no need to panic or assume an injury?

Oh, okay - thanks for clarifying!

 

[Firedancer]

Adam sang his diamonds for the exhibition. There is no actual skating:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-nLXBvGMe6A

 

[Sylvia]

USFS has put together video features (approx. 3 minutes each) on 4 U.S. men that include brief interview clips with their respective coaches (eta: only Max's was posted earlier in this thread):

Adam (Nov. 9): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkL-JEi8eEI

Vincent (Nov. 6): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK9fIIEa5FE

Max (Oct. 12): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph9Z7A3HrnU

Jason (Sept. 28): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vszhd2AcwE

P.S. Thanks to @Tavi for posting the link to the GS recap of the men's event at NHK Trophy with the quotes from both Adam and Jason. I also just came across this Cup of China men's recap article from last week with quotes from Max and Vincent: https://goldenskate.com/2017/11/2017-cup-of-china-men/

 

[wickedwitch]

I think Adam has by far and away the best free program of any American man this year. It's brilliant. Of all the repeated programs this season -- and there's so, so many -- this may be the best.

 

[Cleo1782]

I think Adam has by far and away the best free skate of any American man this year. It's brilliant. Of all the repeated programs this season -- and there's so, so many -- this may be the best.

I enjoy it too. And I am not a huge Adam fan. It keeps my attention. I thought he was great this weekend.

 

[Rukia]

Adam sang his diamonds for the exhibition. There is no actual skating:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-nLXBvGMe6A

ICONIQUE

 

[aftershocks]

Ha ha, cool Adam!

I certainly support Jason and I give him my vote of confidence. I've always been in his corner. I do love the U.S. men, as they are all very loveable. I don't like the way the sport is run, but I enjoy and support the skaters.

I think Adam has by far and away the best free program of any American man this year. It's brilliant. Of all the repeated programs this season -- and there's so, so many -- this may be the best.

Yes indeed! And that's why I find it so exceedingly WTF how the ISU judges didn't give Adam as much credit as he deserves on composition and interpretation. Meanwhile, Voronov scored slightly higher in these categories!!! http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1718/gpjpn2017/data0105.htm

I mean I commend Voronov and I truly respect him at the age of 30 still hanging in there and fighting for his passion. And he was excellent technically. Still, although Voronov is better than Bychenko aesthetically, Voronov ain't better than Adam aesthetically. And we know that seriously nobody is better than Jason aesthetically. But even still, the judges will only give Hanyu and Javi the 9.50 and 9.75 and 10.0 scores. I understand that Jason was kept to 9.11 and 9.21 at NHK, because he wasn't at his best, but seriously the judges tend to keep Jason at around 44+ total on PCS no matter how he skates.

But whatever, nothing's going to change for the better in this sport that truly makes sense.

 

[aftershocks]

Adam (Nov. 9): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkL-JEi8eEI

Adam: "No one's going to get in my way, because I've gotten out of my own way..."

CBC's commentary of Adam's lovely fp at NHK on his 28th birthday.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_M9SOBF4Af4

Vincent Zhou looks back at pictures of his younger self:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKdCMVmM35g
Young Vincent:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fpy4vSYgcv8

Ahhh, and here's CBC's very insightful commentary of Jason Brown's fp at NHK. There's also a brief interview clip with Jason before his performance. Very cool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA5F4tAZhGA
Watching without being anxious about the jumps, I realize all over again just how wonderful and special Jason is as a skater. There are so many wonderful nuances and moments in this program. Jason fills out his movements and he does things that nobody else is doing these days. One of the commentators just sighed at one point. It was audible and palpable.

Wow, if figure skating can not appreciate this kind of skating and skater! I know the jumps are important, and as Jason said, "I can land the quads, and I will. But not at the expense of artistry." He's worked at getting quads so hard, and he conquered the 3-axel in time too. So I hope it was just an off day on the jumps. And I hope Jason can get there even with just one quad and every other jump clean. I found Kurt's voice and encouragement very calming.

 

[Sylvia]

The 2 most recent "Ice Talk" podcasts feature the 2 guys competing at Cup of China this week: http://web.icenetwork.com/fans/icetalk

Episode 49 (uploaded today):
... Then, U.S. silver medalist Vincent Zhou joins the podcast to talk about how he mentally prepares for competition and dealing with the pressure that comes with being a first-year senior in an Olympic year.

Episode 48:
... Then, another former U.S. men's champion, Max Aaron, discusses how he revamped his technique on his quad toe and reveals the inspiration behind his 'Phantom of the Opera' free skate.

 

[olympic]

By the way, does Dolensky have no international assignments besides the USIC? He actually has a relatively high international ranking (higher than Miner for example). You would think that the USFSA would work to get him a 2nd Senior B. I would say Golden Spin would be a great opportunity but Nationals are earlier this year.

I noted that Torgashev has Warsaw Cup at the end of this week and Krasnozhon is being sent to Tallinn afterwards. Good move