U.S. Women [#4]: How Dare You

[toddlj]

hmmmm I swear I saw her name coming up for something

she was listed as an Sub

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

she was listed as an Sub

I feel validated

 

[topaz]

I like all the top US women vying for the podium at Nationals.

Amber Glenn is my favorite though. I like Isabeau but her lack of speed is really noticeable in person. Her stretch, attention to details, spins and lines are excellent though. Her technique is horrible. Honestly, I don't know how long it can last w/o a major reworking.

It's obvious Starr has worked on her technique. Her jumps look better at Skate Canada. If she gets some consistency, she can be on the world team.

Lindsay is obviously struggling right now with technique issues. I think she needs to leave her coach to address some of the issues - confidence, technique, and programs.

We'll have to see how Bradie skates after injuries. Gracie still needs to work on her nerves and put the 3sach in place of the loop.

 

[sk9tingfan]

I like all the top US women vying for the podium at Nationals.

Amber Glenn is my favorite though. I like Isabeau but her lack of speed is really noticeable in person. Her stretch, attention to details, spins and lines are excellent though. Her technique is horrible. Honestly, I don't know how long it can last w/o a major reworking.

It's obvious Starr has worked on her technique. Her jumps look better at Skate Canada. If she gets some consistency, she can be on the world team.

Lindsay is obviously struggling right now with technique issues. I think she needs to leave her coach to address some of the issues - confidence, technique, and programs.

We'll have to see how Bradie skates after injuries. Gracie still needs to work on her nerves and put the 3sach in place of the loop.

I'm waiting for Isabeau to start developing stress fractures in her vertebrae due to her deficient technique (I think she may have had them already, if I remember correctly).

I think that some of Starr's recent success may have been due to her cardiac ablation that was previously done. She may be getting more oxygen to those muscles resulting in better stamina and confidence. Johnny commented on her previous performances, which in his opinion lacked attack, noting that he/others? were frustrated by her laidback approach.

 

[Debbie S]

Fan Zone article on Karen Chen: https://usfigureskatingfanzone.com/...hen-returns-to-the-ice-to-compete-for-cornell

She's enjoying college life and will be competing this weekend at an intercollegiate comp (not in singles, though) with the Cornell team.

 

[Karen-W]

Fan Zone article on Karen Chen: https://usfigureskatingfanzone.com/...hen-returns-to-the-ice-to-compete-for-cornell

She's enjoying college life and will be competing this weekend at an intercollegiate comp (not in singles, though) with the Cornell team.

I was just coming here to post this article! Sounds like she definitely will not be competing at Nationals this year - the collegiate comp this weekend is the only one on her schedule at this time and she isn't training full-time.

 

[kalle]

I’m not the expert on explaining the details but I know Ting has a challenger coming up and if you’re talking about Hannah Harrell she had a challenge earlier this year and did not do all that well but OK.

I went back to check the results at Lombardia and Hannah scored 114 points the LP which I found promising for her that early in the season. Wishful thinking I guess given the current raise of high scoring American skaters but I would very much like her to get another CS ahead of Nationals.

 

[Karen-W]

I went back to check the results at Lombardia and Hannah scored 114 points the LP which I found promising for her that early in the season. Wishful thinking I guess given the current raise of high scoring American skaters but I would very much like her to get another CS ahead of Nationals.

I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that some combination of Harrell, Cui and Cheng wind up being sent to Golden Spin. It would have been nice had Cui or Cheng been assigned to Warsaw Cup along with Wang, but since they have Sectionals the week before, they might not have wanted to do two major competitions in a row like that. But, they also need to demonstrate they're deserving of it by doing well at their Sectionals.

I do think Ziegler has earned another international, however, she's got the TES mins and had two great competitions. She's high enough up in the SB and WS that even if she doesn't remain in the top 24 for either, she'll probably get two GPs next season on the initial assignments round.

 

[B.Cooper]

Nice to see Starr medal at Skate Canada.

Watched her programs, and she has made progress...more mature in her presentation for sure, better extension.

Just found this link on YT....Starr's jumping passes from her freeskate.

Grand prix of figure skating Canada // Starr Andrews // all jumps

Grand prix of figure skating Canada Starr AndrewsAll jumps free program

www.youtube.com

So, my question is how she receives +GOE on her edge jumps, when she "drags" for lack of a better term...her free leg/foot on the ice...it isn't just the blade, it is the side of the boot surface that is being dragged across the surface as she enters her 3Sal and 3Loop....sort of a habit I assume that her coaches have not corrected?.... the bent ankle needs to be straightened out. Its very obvious in slo-mo, but it is distracting even in real time.

For comparison note Rika Kihira's technique on her Sals and Loops in her FS. Very clean...no dragging of the foot.

Rika KIHIRA JPN FS Skt Canada 2022

Rika KIHIRA JPN FS Skt Canada 2022

www.youtube.com

It is a difference in technique ...room for improvement for Starr ;-)

 

[Rukia]

I don't see her foot dragging on the sal? It looks like she gets her foot really low to the ice as she swings through, but I was taught to do it that was too. Her loop looks fine too. I think her jumps have improved quite a bit. Much more height and nice quick rotation. I was surprised actually.

 

[bladesofgorey]

So, my question is how she receives +GOE on her edge jumps, when she "drags" for lack of a better term...her free leg/foot on the ice...it isn't just the blade, it is the side of the boot surface that is being dragged across the surface as she enters her 3Sal and 3Loop....sort of a habit I assume that her coaches have not corrected?.... the bent ankle needs to be straightened out. Its very obvious in slo-mo, but it is distracting even in real time.

It's just that- a difference in technique. It's not bad technique. There's nothing wrong with either the loop or the salchow and it does not need to be fixed- it doesn't affect the flow of the jump and it isn't incorrect.

 

[Willin]

Starr's problem has never been technique - her jumps can be huge on a good day. She has even worked on a 3A in the past. Her problem has always been speed and stamina. With slow speed she had smaller jumps and URs. Now with the procedure, it seems that problem is going away.

 

[Karen-W]

Heads up that the Jr & Sr Women's events for Sectionals are available on Peacock to add to your "My Stuff".

Midwestern Jr Women's SP - Nov 8th - 10am ET
Midwestern Sr Women's SP - Nov 8th - 4:20pm ET
Eastern Jr Women's SP - Nov 9th - 4:25pm ET
Midwestern Jr Women's FS - Nov 10th - 10am ET
Eastern Sr Women's SP - Nov 10th - 10:35am ET
Midwestern Sr Women's FS - Nov 10th - 4:45pm ET
Eastern Jr Women's FS - Nov 11th - 12pm ET
Pacific Coast Jr Women's SP - Nov 12th - 7:50am PT
Eastern Sr Women's FS - Nov 12th - 2:40pm ET
Pacific Coast Sr Women's SP - Nov 12th - 6:20pm PT
Pacific Coast Jr Women's FS - Nov 13th - 7:50am PT
Pacific Coast Sr Women's FS - Nov 13th - 2:50pm PT

 

[Debbie S]

Heads up that the Jr & Sr Women's events for Sectionals are available on Peacock to add to your "My Stuff".

Midwestern Jr Women's SP - Nov 8th - 7am ET
Midwestern Sr Women's SP - Nov 8th - 1:20pm ET
Eastern Jr Women's SP - Nov 9th - 1:25pm ET
Midwestern Jr Women's FS - Nov 10th - 7am ET
Eastern Sr Women's SP - Nov 10th - 7:35am ET
Midwestern Sr Women's FS - Nov 10th - 2:45pm ET
Eastern Jr Women's FS - Nov 11th - 9am ET
Pacific Coast Jr Women's SP - Nov 12th - 7:50am PT
Eastern Sr Women's FS - Nov 12th - 11:40am ET
Pacific Coast Sr Women's SP - Nov 12th - 6:20pm PT
Pacific Coast Jr Women's FS - Nov 13th - 7:50am PT
Pacific Coast Sr Women's FS - Nov 13th - 2:50pm PT

I'm pretty sure all of these times are Pacific? On the Easterns sched posted on EMS, Sr Women times are 3 hours later.

 

[Karen-W]

I'm pretty sure all of these times are Pacific? On the Easterns sched posted on EMS, Sr Women times are 3 hours later.

I don't have the actual schedule for Easterns/Dance Final, but I did check the times for the Pairs, Mids and Pac Coasts against the available schedules with the times in my Peacock - the times listed in Peacock are local for those, so I assumed that the Eastern & Dance times were the same.

 

[Debbie S]

I don't have the actual schedule for Easterns/Dance Final, but I did check the times for the Pairs, Mids and Pac Coasts against the available schedules with the times in my Peacock - the times listed in Peacock are local for those, so I assumed that the Eastern & Dance times were the same.

It looks like Peacock is converting to the user's time zone. I just found them on Peacock (logged in) and the times above are all 3 hours later. Mids Junior Women SP, for example, is listed as 10 am (ET) on Nov 8.

 

[Karen-W]

It looks like Peacock is converting to the user's time zone. I just found them on Peacock (logged in) and the times above are all 3 hours later. Mids Junior Women SP, for example, is listed as 10 am (ET) on Nov 8.

I'll double check again - I did look at the Pairs times and they were local time in my Peacock app rather than PT (which is where I'm at).

 

[Karen-W]

Mids start orders are up!

2023 Midwestern Sectional Singles and U.S. Pairs F

Event Results for 2023 Midwestern Sectional Singles and U.S. Pairs F

ijs.usfigureskating.org

 

[ice coverage]

Karen Chen will compete at Nats, according to new USFS document (as of Nov 6).

(Same document shows that Bradie has a bye to Nats.)

https://www.usfigureskating.org/sites/default/files/media-files/SanJose_PreAnnouncement.pdf

 

[sk8nlizard]

This document https://www.usfigureskating.org/sites/default/files/media-files/SanJose_PreAnnouncement.pdf @ice coverage linked in another thread has a list of byes for Sr Women. Karen Chen’s name is on the document. I thought the article recently published about her made it seem like she wasn’t planning on Nationals this year, but she is a beautiful skater and I would love to see her again. It’s so sad to me that only top 2 (plus 2 additional across all section) will make Nationals. It is so hard to make Nationals now, i worry that this is going to hurt the sport even more.

 

[Karen-W]

Yes, I find it interesting that Karen is currently listed for Nationals. She isn't training full time, however she is skating several times a week at Cornell. I suppose the allure of skating one last tome in front of a home crowd in San Jose must be part of her thought process.

 

[Frau Muller]

Karen Chen will compete at Nats, according to new USFS document (as of Nov 6).

(Same document shows that Bradie has a bye to Nats.)

https://www.usfigureskating.org/sites/default/files/media-files/SanJose_PreAnnouncement.pdf

Karen Chen - I’m incredulous. Is USFS that desperate for getting eyes on the TV tube, considering the already-loaded Sr US women’s field? I feel almost the same about Jason…but at least he should provide some interesting new programs (I hope truly new - not Riverdance: The Grandpa).

Bradie - I’ll do a lap dance if we really see her in Sheffield (this week) and in Espoo at the end of Nov.

 

[Coco]

If she wants to skate in front of her hometown crowd, it's too bad USFSA can't just invite her to the exhibition and give her that opportunity.

Given Karen's luck with publicity, if she does what Polina did in 2018 and just does the short program and really never has any intention of doing the long, I think she will be mildly excoriated for taking up a spot on the roster.

They should consider always extending an invitation to past Olympians to skate in the Nationals gala.

 

[tony]

If she wants to skate in front of her hometown crowd, it's too bad USFSA can't just invite her to the exhibition and give her that opportunity.

Given Karen's luck with publicity, if she does what Polina did in 2018 and just does the short program and really never has any intention of doing the long, I think she will be mildly excoriated for taking up a spot on the roster.

They should consider always extending an invitation to past Olympians to skate in the Nationals gala.

Why would you think that's solely what Karen wants to do, though? Maybe she actually does want to compete again-- either for a real shot at Worlds or to be in competition at home on her own terms.

 

[hoptoad]

She may just be keeping her options open and hasn’t decided for sure yet.

 

[sk8nlizard]

She may just be keeping her options open and hasn’t decided for sure yet.

This is true, but I think (though with all the qualifying changes this year I could definitely be wrong), alternates don’t replace byes that pull out. So, if Karen decides she doesn’t want to compete she has taken a spot from one of the skaters at Sectionals. Yes, I realize that she earned it and it’s her decision, but with so few skaters making Nationals from sectionals (it used to be about 1/3 of the skaters at Sectionals made Nationals, now it’s more like 1/9 or 1/10 of the skaters) if she is just keeping her options open, I think that’s not a great choice. But, I do enjoy Karen’s skating and if she does show up, I will enjoy watching her.

 

[Karen-W]

This is true, but I think (though with all the qualifying changes this year I could definitely be wrong), alternates don’t replace byes that pull out. So, if Karen decides she doesn’t want to compete she has taken a spot from one of the skaters at Sectionals. Yes, I realize that she earned it and it’s her decision, but with so few skaters making Nationals from sectionals (it used to be about 1/3 of the skaters at Sectionals made Nationals, now it’s more like 1/9 or 1/10 of the skaters) if she is just keeping her options open, I think that’s not a great choice. But, I do enjoy Karen’s skating and if she does show up, I will enjoy watching her.

It's hard to say, reading the USFS' rules. They have a whole section about Alternates and requiring them to be ready to compete up to 72 hours prior to the start of Nationals. But, there's also a rule on the page before that there are no fill-ups, which I think is what you're referring to.

I suspect the USFS might, in the future, tighten the issuance of byes to skaters who aren't competing during the fall but healthy if someone like Karen does withdraw and can't be replaced because of the no fill-up rule. Or, they just ignore their own rule and give the 1st alternate her spot because there's no reason why the field at Nationals for the Women isn't full.

 

[gkelly]

but with so few skaters making Nationals from sectionals (it used to be about 1/3 of the skaters at Sectionals made Nationals, now it’s more like 1/9 or 1/10 of the skaters)

I assume you're referring to senior women only.

Even so, percentage is not a useful way to compare, because the number of skaters AT Sectionals is larger with NQS era than with Regionals only.
With the old system (2019 season and before), 4 skaters from each region qualified to Sectionals, plus a few byes, so the fields were 12-15 skaters.
With NQS (both the 2020 version and the 2023 version) the senior women's fields are 19-21 skaters.

Yes, it is true that the Nationals field is smaller, which is the real issue.

But even if the new system automatically took 4 skaters per section plus byes, there would still be lower percentage of skaters qualifying from a sectionals of 20 skaters than from a field of 12 even though the total number who qualified from sectionals would be the same.

And alternates from sectionals didn't replace skaters with byes who withdrew in the old system either.

 

[VGThuy]

Unless Karen places dead last and is super far from the competitor in front of her in score, then she wouldn't be stealing anybody's spot.

 

[tony]

Unless Karen places dead last and is super far from the competitor in front of her in score, then she wouldn't be stealing anybody's spot.

Even then, she's not stealing a spot though. She wasn't written into Nationals by some special consideration or by taking away an allocated spot. She's taking the spot she earned outright by the qualifying procedure.

I know on FSU there's often a vocal group about letting others get their 'chance' so they can add Nationals/internationals or whatever to their resumes, but it's still her spot.