SkateFanBerlin
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US national callers have a pattern of not calling technical errors .....
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US national callers have a pattern of not calling technical errors .....
Yep, even if they're not always based on reality for that specific performance.Why do some say "honest caller" when they just mean "someone who makes calls we agree with"?
I will say the former when I do NOT mean the latter. I have watched numerous technical panels work, and have seen live, first-hand, callers/panels that play the "I can't call it if I don't review it" game. I have seen panels flag no elements for skaters like Medvedeva, and then just sit back, relax, and watch the replay of her obvious flutz on the jumbotron.Why do some say "honest caller" when they just mean "someone who makes calls we agree with"?
I respect your knowledge and intelligence, but not every person who says things about calls being missing over on forums has this knowledge or intelligence, which is why I say "some". There are definitely people with the know-how on how to make those calls and rightly point out the judging was flawed - but for "some", it only ever surfaces with skaters they dislike, and more hilariously, a lot of the time they're going off the existing reputation of being UR jumpers, NOT reality. This is why I take pause whenever I see "analysis" of how Vincent Zhou underrotated all his quads, or how Karen underrotated all her jumps including 2A (!!). You can hardly trust and enable every "expert" on the internet.I will say the former when I do NOT mean the latter. I have watched numerous technical panels work, and have seen live, first-hand, callers/panels that play the "I can't call it if I don't review it" game. I have seen panels flag no elements for skaters like Medvedeva, and then just sit back, relax, and watch the replay of her obvious flutz on the jumbotron.
There are conscious or subconscious bias' at work other than just differing levels of subjectivity in perception.
Oh, of course. This is why I don't do "skating twitter". It is a sea of the uninformed and irrational.I respect your knowledge and intelligence, but not every person who says things about calls being missing over on forums has this knowledge or intelligence, which is why I say "some". There are definitely people with the know-how on how to make those calls and rightly point out the judging was flawed - but for "some", it only ever surfaces with skaters they dislike, and more hilariously, a lot of the time they're going off the existing reputation of being UR jumpers, NOT reality. This is why I take pause whenever I see "analysis" of how Vincent Zhou underrotated all his quads, or how Karen underrotated all her jumps including 2A (!!). You can hardly trust and enable every "expert" on the internet.
I had to run away from that. It was not a good place at all. It did remind me of the wild west days of internet skating message boards but at least those had some moderation and knowledgeable fans were able to write more than 180 characters in response at someone's nonsense.Oh, of course. This is why I don't do "skating twitter". It is a sea of the uninformed and irrational.
Conversely, the judging at Australian competitions I've watched in person is very conservative.All judges call higher in national competitions.....Japan, Italy, everywhere. Don't think it's about favorites; (though, all judges no matter how you try to control it, appreciate particular things. And certain skaters have more of the particular thing.) I think judges at nationals are trying to send the winners out on a happy note, confident. I agree it doesn't do anyone a service; they get that ding anyway when they reach international waters.
Not necessarily. Kate didn't have a bye to Nats, she would have had to compete at Sectionals regardless. Maybe she and her coach decided competing in back to back weeks was too much. We'll see if she's on the start order.I just noticed on the USFS international assignments page that Kate Wang is listed as withdrawn from Warsaw Cup. I’m guessing this means her season is over(still waiting for Pacs senior ladies starting orders to confirm this).
Liu didn't finish the competition but she was behind both Chen and Bell after the short. She had the best early-season results of the entire group but Chen, Bell, and the addition of Tennell in the top 3 would've been a group of skaters all with Worlds experience, and Olympic experience for Bradie and Karen.Looks like Bradie has arrived in the UK and I’m so happy for her. Hope she’s able to pull off two performances this weekend
Question – and this does not need to be debated for a long time. I’m just curious ..... if Bradie was healthy last year and made the US Olympic team which US lady would not have? I’m trying to remember… Karen? Would Mariah do you think have been on?
Liu didn't finish the competition but she was behind both Chen and Bell after the short. She had the best early-season results of the entire group but Chen, Bell, and the addition of Tennell in the top 3 would've been a group of skaters all with Worlds experience, and Olympic experience for Bradie and Karen.
Who knows what the USFS would've done.
Liu didn't finish the competition but she was behind both Chen and Bell after the short. She had the best early-season results of the entire group but Chen, Bell, and the addition of Tennell in the top 3 would've been a group of skaters all with Worlds experience, and Olympic experience for Bradie and Karen.
Who knows what the USFS would've done.
Alysa would have been #1 on the team due to her Lombardia score, which put her in Group 2 priority ahead of Mariah, Karen and Bradie. Mariah and Karen were in Group 3 (Mariah's Rostelecom score & Karen's Worlds 2021 score) and a top 3 finish at Nats would have put Bradie in Group 3 also.I can't believe they would have left Alysa off the team. At that point she was seen as the future. (I know, that didn't work out for Ilia, but Alysa had more senior experience than Ilia did, so she had the experience/future balance in her favor.)
I thought we went over this a bunch of times that Alysa's group 2 status was under the condition that she actually finished Nationals and was in the top 5.Alysa would have been #1 on the team due to her Lombardia score, which put her in Group 2 priority ahead of Mariah, Karen and Bradie. Mariah and Karen were in Group 3 (Mariah's Rostelecom score & Karen's Worlds 2021 score) and a top 3 finish at Nats would have put Bradie in Group 3 also.
I went back and looked at the USFS Oly Team Qualification discussion thread and it was pointed out, at the time of KniFraz's late withdrawal that they could petition their way into Group 2 because of their season's scores. Same situation applies to Alysa the moment she WD after the SP - and probably was strengthened by her 3rd place in the SP.I thought we went over this a bunch of times that Alysa's group 2 status was under the condition that she actually finished Nationals and was in the top 5.
Which she could've done, but she wasn't actually in group 2 because of Lombardia scores. And in this hypothetical, Tennell is also in play and potentially also scoring above her in the short program.I went back and looked at the USFS Oly Team Qualification discussion thread and it was pointed out, at the time of KniFraz's late withdrawal that they could petition their way into Group 2 because of their season's scores. Same situation applies to Alysa the moment she WD after the SP - and probably was strengthened by her 3rd place in the SP.
She, she WAS in Group 2 because of her Lombardia score. Here's my update in the USFS' Athlete Selection Process for 2022 Olympics thread following the conclusion of the Women's FS at Nationals.Which she could've done, but she wasn't actually in group 2 because of Lombardia scores. And in this hypothetical, Tennell is also in play and potentially also scoring above her in the short program.
USFS would find a way to get what they wanted in any event.
FYI - Now that we have our first event complete!
Here's the update to the Group rankings for the Women:
Group 1
Highest PriorityGroup 2 Group 3 Group 4
Lowest PriorityCRITERIA
FOR 2022 US
CHAMPIONSHIPSPlaced in the top 3
ANDPlaced in the top 5 / Pending Successful Petition*
ANDPlaced in the top 3
ORPlaced in the top 5
ORCRITERIA
FOR 2021
INTERNATIONAL
SCORES *Consistently scored equal to Top 3 at 2021 Worlds
W – 217.20Consistently scored equal to Top 5 at 2021 Worlds
W – 208.44
AND/OR
scored once equal to Top 3 at 2021 WorldsConsistently scored equal to Top 10 at 2021 Worlds
W – 193.44
AND/OR
scored once equal to Top 5 at 2021 WorldsConsistently scored equal to Top 15 at 2021 Worlds
W – 178.10
OR
Scored once equal to Top 10 at 2021 Worlds
Group 2 - Alysa Liu* (205.74 Cranberry; 219.24 CS Lombardia; 207.40 CS Nebelhorn; 206.53 SCI; 202.90 NHK) withdrawn from Nationals 1/7 (C19), 3rd after SP
Group 3 -
Group 4 -
- Mariah Bell (179.42 Cranberry; 190.79 IdF; 210.35 Rostelecom) 1st 2022 Nationals
- Karen Chen (208.63 Worlds 2021; 173.00 CS ACI; 202.49 CS Finlandia; 183.41 SCI; 194.00 IdF) 2nd 2022 Nationals
Others with International Assignments
- Amber Glenn (183.46 CS Finlandia; 201.02 SkAm; 175.83 NHK; 183.36 CS Golden Spin) withdrawn from Nationals 1/7 (C19), 14th after SP
- Lindsay Thorngren (181.45 JGP Courchevel 1; 193.77 JGP Ljubljana; 184.40 CS Warsaw; JGPF) 5th 2022 Nationals
- Gabriella Izzo (182.76 US Classic; 155.78 CS Warsaw; 167.96 CS Golden Spin) 4th 2022 Nationals
- Starr Andrews (155.25 CS ACI; 177.63 SkAm; 157.35 CS Austria)
- Hanna Harrell (158.89 CS Golden Spin)
- Audrey Shin (174.73 Cranberry; 172.46 CS Lombardia; 160.78 SkAm; 169.99 CS Austria)
- Sierra Venetta (159.72 Cranberry; 177.40 US Classic)
What I'm pointing out is that who knows if the petition would've been successful in this hypothetical with Tennell-- which is what we are talking about after allShe, she WAS in Group 2 because of her Lombardia score. Here's my update in the USFS' Athlete Selection Process for 2022 Olympics thread following the conclusion of the Women's FS at Nationals.