U.S. Men in 2017 - articles & latest news

[jlai]

I think we should thank both Nathan and Jason for getting the third spot for potentially Farris, Rippon or Max (or themselves). No need to praise one at the expense of another.

 

[misskarne]

And I do thank both of them. My point is that they did need an experienced guy to hold up his end after all and after all the teeth-gnashing here about how Jason was going to be the weak link and barely scrape into the top ten and all the other bullshit the Vincent-pushers came out with he went out and did his job like anyone with a brain knew he would.

 

[zigzig]

I love both boys and I'm so proud of what they accomplished. I just wish Jason would have picked a more stylish costume for his long than that off-duty cater waiter look.

 

[olympic]

I'm consoled by the fact that Nathan wasn't at his best due to a boot miscalculation (from which he seems to have learned a lesson) and not something like nerves. I also hope that feeling bad about his performance doesn't turn him into Gracie circa 2016. Probably not.

 

[jlai]

And I do thank both of them. My point is that they did need an experienced guy to hold up his end after all and after all the teeth-gnashing here about how Jason was going to be the weak link and barely scrape into the top ten and all the other bullshit the Vincent-pushers came out with he went out and did his job like anyone with a brain knew he would.

The same way people say Karen should drop out for Mirai.
Anyway, although neither boy was mistake free in the long, they did enough!

I wasn't too worried about the US men to be honest. Neither struck me as fragile skaters.

 

[Tavi]

Well, let's be fair. Nathan's worst still beat Jason's best, by a huge number of points.

I think both guys were stellar and should be proud of what they achieved but to be fair, Jason lost at least 11/12 points on the quad and the popped loop. So if he had truly been at his best, got plus GOE on those two elements, and benefited from last group PCS like Nathan did, Nathan would only have beaten him by about 5 points. Considering that Nathan landed 6 quads in the competition (and fully rotated all 8) and that Jason's only quad attempt was fall/<, that's actually pretty amazing.

 

[skatesindreams]

Nathan did not crumble. If you've not read, he's been having problems with his boots, and one collapsed on the lutz.

He still scored 110 TES even with those problems. That's something that NO other American man would be capable of doing.

This speaks for me.
I hope that Nathan; and all others with boot problems, can find permanent solutions, ASAP.

 

[becca]

I think both guys were stellar and should be proud of what they achieved but to be fair, Jason lost at least 11/12 points on the quad and the popped loop. So if he had truly been at his best, got plus GOE on those two elements, and benefited from last group PCS like Nathan did, Nathan would only have beaten him by about 5 points. Considering that Nathan landed 6 quads in the competition (and fully rotated all 8) and that Jason's only quad attempt was fall/<, that's actually pretty amazing.

And if Nathan had truly been his best he would have finished way more ahead than 5 points. You cannot ignore Jason's mistakes.

 

[Frida80]

This speaks for me.
I hope that Nathan; and all others with boot problems, can find permanent solutions, ASAP.

Nathan is attempting more quads than anyone in the world. Skate manufacturers are going to have to invent a new type of skate that can keep up with him. One pair a month is just crazy.

 

[Debbie S]

This speaks for me.
I hope that Nathan; and all others with boot problems, can find permanent solutions, ASAP.

Nathan's boot "problem" of breaking down is pretty standard and unavoidable. Eventually, all boots break down but Nathan's seem to be breaking down fast, likely due to all the quads he does. It sounds like what happened at Worlds was a timing problem...he had new boots but they weren't broken in enough to be comfortable but the comfortable, old ones had gone a bit too far. I assume he and his team will plan better in future seasons to time boot break-ins to fit his comp schedule.

Nathan may need extra reinforcement added to his boots to prolong their lifespan, but the danger in that is you don't want the boot to be too stiff b/c that can cause foot and other injuries.

 

[el henry]

And if Nathan had truly been his best he would have finished way more ahead than 5 points. You cannot ignore Jason's mistakes.

Who is ignoring Jason's mistakes? Nothing that I read.

Jason's detractors cannot have it both ways: oh, the only reason Jason was so close was that Nathan missed jumps, and Jason did everything he could, and look how far ahead Nathan was, and oh, it's only going to get worse for Jason, oh, let's all channel pre-Worlds Phil Hersh, quad quad quad quad gold gold gold blah blah blah quad.

And then it's pointed out that no, Jason could have scored higher, it's not that he did the best he could and he was so far away from our new Great Skating Hope, his mistakes are ignored????

Personally, for me, it's who I want to watch, regardless of BVs, planned content, and practice vids of "new and exciting" revolutions in the air. Or which American man's program I would rather rewatch when both of them fall.

 

[Marco]

Nathan's boot "problem" of breaking down is pretty standard and unavoidable. Eventually, all boots break down but Nathan's seem to be breaking down fast, likely due to all the quads he does. It sounds like what happened at Worlds was a timing problem...he had new boots but they weren't broken in enough to be comfortable but the comfortable, old ones had gone a bit too far. I assume he and his team will plan better in future seasons to time boot break-ins to fit his comp schedule.

Nathan may need extra reinforcement added to his boots to prolong their lifespan, but the danger in that is you don't want the boot to be too stiff b/c that can cause foot and other injuries.

Couldn't he have broken in 2 pairs at the same time (i.e. alternate boots one or two days at a time) - will take longer to break them in but they will also last longer and have a similarly broken in pair as back up.

 

[Debbie S]

Couldn't he have broken in 2 pairs at the same time (i.e. alternate boots one or two days at a time) - will take longer to break them in but they will also last longer and have a similarly broken in pair as back up.

Every skater is different, but generally, that approach is not recommended, b/c not only will it take longer to break in boots (which will in turn cause disruptions to training), since no 2 pairs of boots are exactly alike, skating in both in the same time period can just be uncomfortable/unsettling for the skater. Not the most productive way to go.

 

[Tavi]

And if Nathan had truly been his best he would have finished way more ahead than 5 points. You cannot ignore Jason's mistakes.

Oy. I said nothing about ignoring Jason's mistakes: In fact, I was responding to a post which said that Jason was at his best, and was simply pointing out that he was not.

 

[becca]

Who is ignoring Jason's mistakes? Nothing that I read.

Jason's detractors cannot have it both ways: oh, the only reason Jason was so close was that Nathan missed jumps, and Jason did everything he could, and look how far ahead Nathan was, and oh, it's only going to get worse for Jason, oh, let's all channel pre-Worlds Phil Hersh, quad quad quad quad gold gold gold blah blah blah quad.

And then it's pointed out that no, Jason could have scored higher, it's not that he did the best he could and he was so far away from our new Great Skating Hope, his mistakes are ignored????

Personally, for me, it's who I want to watch, regardless of BVs, planned content, and practice vids of "new and exciting" revolutions in the air. Or which American man's program I would rather rewatch when both of them fall.

Jason did not do everything he could unless you think he is incapable of landing a 3 loop?? A popped jump is a major error. And a 3 loop is a heck of a lot easier than a 4 lutz. And Jason has less room for them.

Both he and Nathan made major errors. However Nathan's four quads gave him some lead way as did Jason's beautiful skating.

No one is saying Jason's not a beautiful skater. But he lost to someone who fell in this competition three times by 30 points. He is at the mercy of other skaters and 30 points means there is a lot of room for others to come between him and Nathan. And there are some Juniors coming up with those jumps.

 

[sk9tingfan]

Couldn't he have broken in 2 pairs at the same time (i.e. alternate boots one or two days at a time) - will take longer to break them in but they will also last longer and have a similarly broken in pair as back up.

Had the same thoughts before I read this. I think that he probably needs up to three pairs to be safe.

 

[Bookslut]

Nah. They already has scheduled the women for the evening NBC broadcast. They just think that American audiences care only about the "ladies." Our great American ice dancers can't get any love from NBC even though they've been doing better than the singles skaters in the last few years.

Interesting...because for 2018 USFSA nationals the MEN will be the Saturday night prime time event!

 

[Tavi]

Jason did not do everything he could unless you think he is incapable of landing a 3 loop?? A popped jump is a major error. And a 3 loop is a heck of a lot easier than a 4 lutz. And Jason has less room for them.

Both he and Nathan made major errors. However Nathan's four quads gave him some lead way as did Jason's beautiful skating.

No one is saying Jason's not a beautiful skater. But he lost to someone who fell in this competition three times by 30 points. He is at the mercy of other skaters and 30 points means there is a lot of room for others to come between him and Nathan. And there are some Juniors coming up with those jumps.

Umm. I honestly don't understand the point of your posts. Nathan and Jason together earned three spots for the Olys, and for that purpose, the point differential between their 6th and 7th place finishes is meaningless.

But for the record, your math is way off. Jason's total score was 21.15 points behind Nathan's, not 30 points.

Also for the record, after the SP - where Jason was quadless but virtually flawless and Nathan executed two quads with plus GOE but fell on his 3A - the differential was only 4.23 points. In the FS, both guys made two major errors. Still, despite Nathan's overwhelming advantage in BV (35.10 points), Jason finished only 16.92 points behind him. That shows that great PCS and GOE can make up for a lot of points, but not enough to overcome a multi quad advantage - a fact of which Jason and his team are fully aware.

 

[olympic]

Bump

I was just perusing top scores for US men -

Nathan Chen 307.46
Jason Brown 269.57
Adam Rippon 267.53
Joshua Farris 260.01
Max Aaron 258.95
Vincent Zhou 258.11
Ross Miner 248.92
Richard Dornbush 237.28
Grant Hochstein 237.25
Tim Dolensky 226.53
Alex Krasnozhon 223.60
Tomoki Hiwatashi 222.52

Not sure if Dornbush is competing anymore, Josh, Ross and Max had there best scores further back but Nationals could be awesome next year! Glad to have 3 spots and hope everyone brings it.

 

[Jayar]

Season's Best:
307.46 Nathan CHEN
269.57 Jason BROWN
267.53 Adam RIPPON
258.11 Vincent ZHOU
243.45 Misha GE
242.74 Max AARON
235.72 Grant HOCHSTEIN
226.53 Timothy DOLENSKY
223.60 Alexei KRASNOZHON
214.48 Ross MINER
209.66 Sean RABBITT

 

[Tavi]

Season's Best:
307.46 Nathan CHEN
269.57 Jason BROWN
267.53 Adam RIPPON
258.11 Vincent ZHOU
243.45 Misha GE
242.74 Max AARON
235.72 Grant HOCHSTEIN
226.53 Timothy DOLENSKY
223.60 Alexei KRASNOZHON
214.48 Ross MINER
209.66 Sean RABBITT

Why is Misha on your list?

 

[Sylvia]

U.S. Men on ISU Season Best (SB) total scores lists after Worlds:

2017 Bavarian Open & Challenge Cup scores are included (italicized below) even though they don't count as ISU SB scores.

ISU Season Best Total scores (Senior/Junior):
307.46 Nathan Chen 4CC 2017, 1st [SB #3] *ISU PB* (next: WTT)
290.72 Nathan Chen Worlds 2017, 6th
282.85 Nathan Chen Grand Prix Final 2016/17, 2nd
269.57 Jason Brown Worlds 2017, 6th [SB #7] *ISU PB* (next: WTT)
268.91 Nathan Chen NHK Trophy 2016, 2nd
268.38 Jason Brown Skate America 2016, 2nd
267.53 Adam Rippon Trophee de France 2016, 3rd [SB #9] *ISU PB*
264.80 Nathan Chen Trophee de France 2016
261.43 Adam Rippon Skate America 2016, 3rd
258.11 (JR) Vincent Zhou Junior Worlds 2017, 1st [SB #11] *ISU PB*
256.49 Jason Brown CS Lombardia Trophy 2016, 2nd
256.44 Nathan Chen CS Finlandia Trophy 2016, 1st
254.04 Jason Brown CS US Int'l Classic 2016, 1st
248.24 Adam Rippon CS US Int'l Classic 2016, 3rd
247.81 Vincent Zhou Bavarian Open 2017, 1st
245.85 Jason Brown 4CC 2017, 6th
242.74 Max Aaron Cup of China 2016, 4th [SB #22]
235.72 Grant Hochstein 4CC 2017, 9th [SB #29]
235.58 Max Aaron Rostelecom Cup 2016, 5th
233.10 Adam Rippon Grand Prix Final 2016/17, 6th
226.53 Timothy Dolensky Skate America 2016, 8th [SB #35] *ISU PB*
226.39 (JR) Vincent Zhou JGP JPN 2016, 2nd
226.13 Max Aaron CS Autumn Classic Int'l 2016, 3rd
223.60 (JR) Alexei Krasnozhon JGP CZE 2016, 2nd [SB #38] *ISU PB*
219.42 Timothy Dolensky CS Golden Spin 2016, 6th
218.73 Max Aaron CS Lombardia Trophy 2016, 3rd
218.47 Jason Brown NHK Trophy 2016, 7th
217.25 Grant Hochstein CS Nebelhorn Trophy 2016, 3rd
214.48 Ross Miner CS US Int'l Classic 2016, 6th [SB #48]
213.92 (JR) Vincent Zhou JGP EST 2016, 3rd
213.34 Ross Miner Cup of China 2016, 9th
211.47 Alexei Krasnozhon Junior Worlds 2017, 8th
211.18 (JR) Alexei Krasnozhon JGP SLO 2016, 1st
209.66 Sean Rabbitt CS US Int'l Classic 2016, 7th [SB #54] *ISU PB*
208.85 (JR) Alexei Krasnozhon Junior Grand Prix Final, 5th
208.64 Alexander Johnson CS Ondrej Nepela Memorial 2016, 6th [SB #57]
207.49 Timothy Dolensky CS Nebelhorn Trophy 2016, 7th
204.91 (JR) Andrew Torgashev JGP RUS 2016, 2nd [SB #62] *ISU PB*
204.69 Grant Hochstein Skate Canada 2016, 11th
201.45 Andrew Torgashev CS Tallinn Trophy 2016, 3rd
199.20 Jordan Moeller Challenge Cup 2017, 2nd
198.77 Grant Hochstein CS Lombardia Trophy 2016, 5th
196.53 Ross Miner Skate Canada 2016, 12th
191.80 (JR) Andrew Torgashev JGP GER 2016, 4th
191.40 Grant Hochstein NHK Trophy 2016, 11th
182.12 Tomoki Hiwatashi CS Warsaw Cup 2016, 9th [SB #90]
180.94 (JR) Tomoki Hiwatashi JGP FRA 2016, 6th
178.92 (JR) Kevin Shum JGP CZE 2016, 7th
177.21 (JR) Eric Sjoberg JGP RUS, 7th
171.69 (JR) Camden Pulkinen JGP EST 2016, 9th
171.51 (JR) William Hubbart JGP SLO 2016, 9th
165.81 (JR) Oleksiy Melnyk JGP FRA, 9th
160.33 (JR) Emmanuel Savary JGP JPN, 12th
148.89 (JR) Peter Liu JGP GER, 16th
--- Vincent Zhou CS Golden Spin 2016 (WD after SP, 12th)
--- Andrew Torgashev Junior Worlds 2017 (25th in SP - FNR)

Short Program (80+):
103.12 Chen [59.58 TES / 43.54 PCS] 4CC, 1st *ISU PB*
97.33 Chen [55.22 / 43.11 -1] Worlds, 6th
93.10 Brown [48.00 / 45.10] Worlds, 8th *ISU PB*
92.85 Chen [51.74 / 41.11] Trophee de France, 2nd
87.94 Chen [48.55 / 40.39 -1] NHK Trophy, 2nd
87.86 Rippon [45.76 / 42.10] USIC, 1st *ISU PB*
87.32 Rippon [44.42 / 42.90] Skate America, 2nd
87.50 Chen [50.75 / 37.75 -1] Finlandia, 2nd
85.75 Brown [43.32 / 43.43 -1] Skate America, 3rd
85.53 Zhou [46.68 / 38.85] Bavarian, 1st
85.30 Chen [45.62 / 40.68 -1] GPF, 5th
85.25 Rippon [43.33 / 41.92] Trophee de France, 4th
83.93 Rippon [41.37 / 42.56] GPF, 6th
83.18 Brown [42.08 / 42.10 -1] USIC, 2nd
81.94 Hochstein [42.34 TES / 39.60] 4CC, 7th *ISU PB*
81.67 Aaron [43.90 / 37.77] Cup of China, 4th
81.58 Brown [41.38 / 41.20 -1] Lombardia, 2nd
80.77 Brown [38.77 TES / 43.00 -1] 4CC, 9th
80.53 (JR) Zhou [44.60 / 35.93] JGP JPN, 1st *ISU PB*

Free Skate (140+):
204.34 Chen [115.48 TES / 88.86 PCS] 4CC, 2nd *ISU PB*
197.55 Chen [113.13 / 84.42] GPF, 1st
193.39 Chen [110.61 / 84.78 -2] Worlds, 4th
182.63 Brown [92.61 / 90.02] Skate America, 2nd *ISU PB*
182.28 Rippon [94.64 / 87.64] Trophee de France, 2nd *ISU PB*
180.97 Chen [97.91 / 84.06 -1] NHK Trophy, 2nd
179.24 (JR) Zhou [104.66 / 74.58] Junior Worlds, 1st
176.47 Brown [88.27 / 89.20 -1] Worlds, 7th
174.91 Brown [88.91 / 87.00 -1] Lombardia, 1st
174.11 Rippon [89.25 / 85.86 -1] Skate America, 3rd
171.95 Chen [94.59 / 79.36] Trophee de France, 4th
170.86 Brown [85.36 / 86.50 -1] USIC, 1st
165.08 Brown [79.36 / 85.72] 4CC, 6th
168.94 Chen [96.08 / 74.86 -2] Finlandia, 1st
162.28 Zhou [86.48 / 76.80 -1] Bavarian, 1st
161.94 Aaron [85.18 / 76.76] Rostelecom Cup, 4th
161.07 Aaron [84.79 / 76.28] Cup of China, 3rd
160.38 Rippon [77.58 / 82.80] USIC, 3rd (166.85 at Japan Open 83.33/84.52 -1)
155.39 Aaron [78.19 / 78.20 -1] Autumn Classic, 2nd
153.78 Hochstein [77.00 / 77.78 -1] 4CC, 9th
149.17 Rippon [67.97 / 83.20 -2] GPF, 6th
148.94 Dolensky [74.24 / 74.70] Skate America, 8th
148.50 (JR) Krasnozhon [77.86 / 71.64 -1] JGP CZE, 2nd
145.86 (JR) Zhou [75.52 / 70.34] JGP JPN, 2nd
145.80 Aaron [70.60 / 75.20] Lombardia, 3rd
144.49 Hochstein [68.57 / 76.92 -1] Skate Canada, 8th
144.14 Brown [62.44 / 82.70 -1] NHK Trophy, 7th
144.06 Dolensky [68.96 / 76.10 -1] Golden Spin, 6th
143.11 Miner [69.91 / 73.20] USIC, 6th
142.25 Hochstein [67.81 / 75.44 -1] Nebelhorn, 3rd

Post-Nationals Novice assignments:
Maxim Naumov Challenge Cup, 1st (37.03 SP 2nd, 79.90 FS 1st, 116.93 total)
Joseph Kang Bavarian Open - WD after SP (38.16, 9th)

 

[el henry]

Why is Misha on your list?

Can't speak for @Jayar, but from my point of view, wishful thinking. Jason and Misha both skating for the US of A, yes!

 

[aftershocks]

@care bear posted this fun podcast in AdaRipp's Trash Can thread. Adam is on a show called "The Grueling Truth"
http://thegruelingtruth.net/podcast...national-figure-skating-champion-adam-rippon/

Figure skating is definitely 'grueling' so the title of the podcast is apt. I've never heard of it before. Who is the host, James Ernest? He seems to know something about figure skating. He seems to have done his research and he asks great questions. I wonder if skaters have been on this podcast before? Ernest appears to hail from the midwest from what he said about having to drive 5 hours to Illinois if he wants to see SOI this year.

It's nice to hear from Adam. Sounds like he's healing well if he's going to be on the short tour with SOI this year. Good luck, Adam! And yeah, it would be a lot of fun to see you on DWTS someday.

ETA:
Here's more about The Grueling Truth: http://thegruelingtruth.net/host-writers/

I wish we could see more interest in and coverage of figure skaters on shows like this in the U.S. Figure skaters are tremendous athletes and more general sports shows should cover them, and not just in the lead-up to an Olympic year. Figure skaters are covered more seriously in Canada than in the U.S.

 

[A.H.Black]

Couldn't he have broken in 2 pairs at the same time (i.e. alternate boots one or two days at a time) - will take longer to break them in but they will also last longer and have a similarly broken in pair as back up.

Had the same thoughts before I read this. I think that he probably needs up to three pairs to be safe.

As I understand it, this was an unusual situation. Nathan and his coach do plan for boots and extra pairs and breaking in and such. This particular pair got soft much faster than usual and didn't fit the plan they made. Now I think they will have plan C and plan D in addition to plans A and B.

 

[Jayar]

It was a copy and paste error. Sorry.

 

[Tavi]

Max, Jason, Josh:

https://twitter.com/usfigureskating/status/850899813499404289

 

[misskarne]

Max, Jason, Josh:

https://twitter.com/usfigureskating/status/850899813499404289

Handsome and in suits

Perhaps the memo on the dress code was garbled? Max shows up in a three piece suit (and those hideous brown shoes, your dress sense Max, omg), Jason shows up sans tie, and Josh is in a standard suit and black tie?

 

[Tavi]

Handsome and in suits

Perhaps the memo on the dress code was garbled? Max shows up in a three piece suit (and those hideous brown shoes, your dress sense Max, omg), Jason shows up sans tie, and Josh is in a standard suit and black tie?

I think they all look great in their own individual ways!

 

[Yazmeen]

They all look great, but like Max's jacket the best.