U.S. Ladies [#29]: Skating with Adjusted Vision

[Natanielle825]

No it’s not.

Competing with pressure is obviously different than competing with no pressure. and competing with self-doubt is obviously different than competing without it. Adolescence comes with increased self-consciousness for everyone, regardless of whether they're involved in a sport. Your brain literally develops the ability to see yourself from other people's perspectives, little kids don't have that. Of course it affects people differently and there's plenty of ways to cope with it, but it's unrealistic to say it doesn't exist or that Alyssa will be immune.

 

[Lemonade20]

Competing with pressure is obviously different than competing with no pressure. and competing with self-doubt is obviously different than competing without it. Adolescence comes with increased self-consciousness for everyone, regardless of whether they're involved in a sport. Your brain literally develops the ability to see yourself from other people's perspectives, little kids don't have that. Of course it affects people differently and there's plenty of ways to cope with it, but it's unrealistic to say it doesn't exist or that Alyssa will be immune.

You’re assuming she has no pressure on her. There’s always pressure on you as a skater, it doesn’t matter what competition you are training or what you’re going through.

 

[Jarrett]

Thank you, Mariah Bell, for altering the music.

The world thanks her!

 

[Natanielle825]

Mariah Bell performed her ABBA free skate in Great Park Ice's holiday exhibition yesterday and her FS music has been edited to remove the short "Dancing Queen" intro. It now starts with "The Winner Takes It All" (first half), followed by the same final 2 songs -- "Mamma Mia" (slightly extended from before?) and "Thank You For the Music."

Any footage?

 

[UGG]

You’re assuming she has no pressure on her. There’s always pressure on you as a skater, it doesn’t matter what competition you are training or what you’re going through.

There are different types of pressure though. To just assume she has “skating under pressure” conquered because she won nationals when she wasn’t even allowed on the world team and she was 13/14 years old is really silly.

 

[Marco]

Mariah Bell performed her ABBA free skate in Great Park Ice's holiday exhibition yesterday and her FS music has been edited to remove the short "Dancing Queen" intro. It now starts with "The Winner Takes It All" (first half), followed by the same final 2 songs -- "Mamma Mia" (slightly extended from before?) and "Thank You For the Music."

Makes more sense to go just one direction from slow to fast, and sad to upbeat. It used to be upbeat - slow - upbeat; and happy - sad - happy. Good call. If up to me though, I would get rid of The Winner Takes It All altogether and just have 3 upbeat songs.

Re: Alysa - I am glad she has a face to face coach at all, and Jeremy is amazing technically. His elements are always so clean and his edges so wonderful. He is what she needs. Just because he couldn't keep his nerves under control when he was amateur doesn't mean he can't inspire her to do that. Case in point - Mishin was never a quad jumper but he was able to teach some amazing quads to his students.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Makes more sense to go just one direction from slow to fast, and sad to upbeat. It used to be upbeat - slow - upbeat; and happy - sad - happy. Good call. If up to me though, I would get rid of The Winner Takes It All altogether and just have 3 upbeat songs.

Re: Alysa - I am glad she has a face to face coach at all, and Jeremy is amazing technically. His elements are always so clean and his edges so wonderful. He is what she needs. Just because he couldn't keep his nerves under control when he was amateur doesn't mean he can't inspire her to do that. Case in point - Mishin was never a quad jumper but he was able to teach some amazing quads to his students.

I don't know what coaching experience he has... But I do know that fear and nervousness can be subtley communicated.

 

[giselle23]

Except that he won a senior Grand Prix Final fairly early in his career (!)...and some Sr Nationals...but, indeed, many on this board noted his “Puke Face” right before he took to the ice. Wonderful stylist, tough.

Jeremy is a four-time US Champion. He just couldn't put it all together for the big events--Worlds and the Olympics. He did make the US Olympic team twice, which is a pretty big accomplishment by itself.

 

[Frau Muller]

Jeremy is a four-time US Champion. He just couldn't put it all together for the big events--Worlds and the Olympics. He did make the US Olympic team twice, which is a pretty big accomplishment by itself.

The Grand Prix Final win was pretty major! Too bad about Olys and Worlds, though.

 

[Lemonade20]

He is still a very accomplished skater and will make a great coach. Very few skaters can make the transition.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Question re Jeremy's/Alysa's arrangement:

• did Jeremy moved to Oakland (Alysa's rink) to train her? (i though he lives up north-east in Detroit)
• is she his only student?

 

[Sylvia]

Question re Jeremy's/Alysa's arrangement:

• did Jeremy moved to Oakland (Alysa's rink) to train her? (i though he lives up north-east in Detroit)
• is she his only student?

Your questions are answered in Hersh's Dec. 11th article: https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2020/12/11/alysa-liu-adds-jeremy-abbott-to-coaching-team/

 

[overedge]

One of my coaches told me that someone who has struggled with something in skating will usually be a much better coach than someone who hasn't struggled with that same thing. Because if something comes naturally to a skater, they have trouble understanding why someone else is having difficulty with it, and it's hard for them to teach it because they've never had to think analytically about it. If someone has struggled with something, and had to pick it apart to understand where the problem is happening, and then fix the problem, they can help someone else do the same thing.

That's not to say that skaters who are super-talented and learn things quickly can't be good coaches. They can. But someone can also be an excellent coach if they struggled with their own skating.

 

[NAOTMAA]

I feel like compared to other skaters who were forced to make changes due to the pandemic Alysa's team were VERY slow to act. The situation with Lee was just so unpractical I can't believe they stuck with it as long as they did. I guess they finally realized "normal" isn't going to come back any time soon so enter Jeremy but they sure took their sweet time.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I feel like compared to other skaters who were forced to make changes due to the ********* Alysa's team were VERY slow to act. The situation with Lee was just so unpractical I can't believe they stuck with it as long as they did. I guess they finally realized "normal" isn't going to come back any time soon so enter Jeremy but they sure took their sweet time.

Nobody could tell "how long it will last", Alysa's team had a contract with Lee i am quite sure. There needs to be a valid reason to break a contract.... and it takes time to realize that "it" will last longer than just several months. Now with "2nd wave" and more restrictive travel options, they made a decision and have valid reasons to switch from Lee.

 

[Jarrett]

Do we have any idea if Ting is going to try and qualify for nationals this year?

 

[maureenfarone]

Do we have any idea if Ting is going to try and qualify for nationals this year?

I didn't see her in the virtual ISP comps back in September or October so the only other way to qualify was in the virtual competitions which just finished. We get to see the recent virtual competition on December 22 on Peacock or Fanzone. Maybe someone has a list of competitors, but I didn't see one anywhere.

I would love to see Ting again.

 

[Erin]

One of my coaches told me that someone who has struggled with something in skating will usually be a much better coach than someone who hasn't struggled with that same thing. Because if something comes naturally to a skater, they have trouble understanding why someone else is having difficulty with it, and it's hard for them to teach it because they've never had to think analytically about it. If someone has struggled with something, and had to pick it apart to understand where the problem is happening, and then fix the problem, they can help someone else do the same thing.

Yes, that was my personal experience in a different sport. There were a lot of things I was terrible at that I was pretty decent at coaching. I was also a really nervous competitor but the kids I taught were much more successful in competition than me. It’s one of the reasons why I’m not so concerned with Jeremy and Alysa.

 

[clairecloutier]

Phil Jackson in the NBA is a famous example of an “average” player who became an exceptional coach. I think quite a few of the successful NBA coaches fall into this category.

 

[Jarrett]

I didn't see her in the virtual ISP comps back in September or October so the only other way to qualify was in the virtual competitions which just finished. We get to see the recent virtual competition on December 22 on Peacock or Fanzone. Maybe someone has a list of competitors, but I didn't see one anywhere.

I would love to see Ting again.

Yes she wasn't in those fall competitions and her social media has died down skating wise so I assume should won't be going for nationals this season but I was still hoping it might happen. Definitely interested in that pops up in 5 days.

 

[4rkidz]

This appears to be Junior Lady Mia Kalin's "rehearsal" video for her virtual championship series run-through. 7 triples (including two triple-triples), no falls, no pops. And compared to last season she looks faster, spins more solid. Based on the birthdate I found for her, Mia is now 12. Makes me excited about our junior ladies. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBTk-CNSXbk

She has also grown quite a bit from last year and still maintained her jumps which is encouraging, but she still has a lot of growing to do so hope she enjoys the journey - hope she can find a way to also express her joy of skating. Talented girl.

 

[Maximillian]

Phil Jackson in the NBA is a famous example of an “average” player who became an exceptional coach. I think quite a few of the successful NBA coaches fall into this category.

And couldn't it be said that most of the great skating coaches of the past, eg. Faasi, Carroll, Moskvina, Mishin, TAT, relatively speaking, a step or two below the top tier? Orser would be one of the few 'greats' that became a 'great' coach.

 

[Vagabond]

And couldn't it be said that most of the great skating coaches of the past, eg. Faasi, Carroll, Moskvina, Mishin, TAT, relatively speaking, a step or two below the top tier? Orser would be one of the few 'greats' that became a 'great' coach.

Carlo Fassi was a World Bronze Medalist and a European Gold Medalist. Isn't that top tier?

 

[clairecloutier]

I do remember Moskvina describing herself once as a non-top tier skater. I don't remember her exact wording, but it was something to that effect--that she considered herself a good, but not great, skater. Her highest accomplishments were World silver and European bronze. To me, that's pretty up there. But I think what she meant is that she hadn't achieved World or Olympic champion status.

 

[Maximillian]

Carlo Fassi was a World Bronze Medalist and a European Gold Medalist. Isn't that top tier?

I would say probably comparable to Jeremy Abbot...especially since he competed at a time when NA men dominated and his chances of actually winning an O's or WC were zero.

 

[VGThuy]

There are also developmental coaches that I think are incredibly important in instill the proper skills and foundations to allow a skater with elite potential to soar once they move up to another coach (if they do). Many of them weren't top skaters, but have the skills and patience to teach. The ability to teach is really important and one doesn't just have it by being a top skater, though a top skater could have it or develop it.

I remember reading a story by an "insider" regarding a World champion gymnast who at the time was starting out coaching. The "insider" was saying the former world champion gymnast didn't really have the temperate for it at that moment because she would be impatient, annoyed that certain gymnasts were not getting the skills fast enough, and not understand why some students were having a harder time with a skill. She would roll her eyes and be annoyed and such.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Berezhnaia always attributed her skating skills to one of her early, developmental coaches.

It takes different and very great skills to understand age-appropriate development and to instill great fundamentals in children without skipping ahead to what they might like better and what gets the coach recognition in a bigger picture.

 

[BittyBug]

And in the U.S. at least, to withstand the pressure from overly-involved parents that measure success as jump, jump, jump.

 

[Lemonade20]

And in the U.S. at least, to withstand the pressure from overly-involved parents that measure success as jump, jump, jump.

Right? It’s all about the jumps, not the package. Edgework, arm position, facial expression, speed, none of that matters as much

 

[radcliffe96]

Right? It’s all about the jumps, not the package. Edgework, arm position, facial expression, speed, none of that matters as much

I think it's a lot more complex than people just measuring success by jumps. First, you have to consider that figure skating has been evolving over time to demand more from skaters in terms of jumps — and it's clear that developing the more advanced jumps at an earlier age (assuming good technique) can really help skaters. So there's definitely reason to move the jumps along. But I'd bet for most coaches there's also pressure to ingrain solid skating skills, edge quality, carriage, etc., because these habits and skills do seem to stick and are harder to teach later.

Now consider the ice and instruction time, and the repetition (and the CO$T) it takes to address both of those aspects really well, not to mention good spins!!!

How much money does the family have? How much access to ice time? When you can't do it all, where/on what do you put the training emphasis at different phases of a skater's development to ensure they have a decent chance of everything coming together, eventually?

I think this must be a difficult equation.