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mtnskater

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Mariah had the “moment” at Nationals. So special and memorable. In any other era she would have won. Even though I would have loved a win for Mariah, Alyssa was very deserving with her incredible technical content. Bradie fought hard. I give her major props too. Thank heavens for these three because I was pretty shocked at the low scores and lack of 3/3 combos from most of the rest of the field, though there was still some lovely skating.
 

Jammers

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Mariah had the “moment” at Nationals. So special and memorable. In any other era she would have won. Even though I would have loved a win for Mariah, Alyssa was very deserving with her incredible technical content. Bradie fought hard. I give her major props too. Thank heavens for these three because I was pretty shocked at the low scores and lack of 3/3 combos from most of the rest of the field, though there was still some lovely skating.
Low scores compared to who? If you are talking about the Russians yeah then i guess so but compared to Japanese Nationals i didn't see that much difference. I don't have the numbers but the majority of the girls tried 3-3 combo's and remember 2 of the ladies in the top 5 last year were injured and not here. This wasn't Canadian ladies no offense.
 
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Coco

Rotating while Russian!
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My mom and I have been watching US Nationals since the 80s, we'll say, maybe earlier. She texted me last night and said, "Remember when the winner was The Girl Who Fell the Least?"

Last night, the top four were phenomenal to watch. I'm including Karen because her spins take my breath away and she blew my expectations out of the water. I don't think she could have finished a long program 12 months ago and now look at her. I was not expecting that.

Last comment, Dick Button would have said Bradie's fall was unnecessary, lol.
 

gkelly

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Maybe bringing back Compulsory Figures would help prevent bizarre results like these. :unsure:

How would that make a difference?

When there are 3 phases of competition, the freeskate is worth less than when there are only 2 so it would be more common, not less, for the freeskate winner not to win the title.

And 2014 Abbott would likely have had a significant school figures lead over teen Brown. Though it's pointless to really speculate since everyone would have trained differently if the rules were different.
 

sk8nlizard

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We happened to be sitting next to Mariah Bell’s parents last night. Her free skate was magical. Everyone was in tears and Mariah sought out her parents after her skate which I thought was just about the best thing ever. We also had lots of non skating people around us and they were equally enamored with Mariah. Hers was a skate of a lifetime and I am so glad I witnessed it.
After light attendance all week, last night was quite packed...I would say 3/4 or slightly more full. They also had part of the upper bowl available and people were there too. It was a wonderful night of skating, the two performances that got the most crowd reaction were Gracie and Mariah...I was in tears for both. Alyssa skated quite well and she has definitely improved but I think most of the arena really wanted Mariah to win.
I am staying at the host hotel and when Mariah came into the lobby last night the entire lobby/bar started clapping for her. I can’t wait to watch the rest of her season!
 

olympic

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Random thoughts after watching the Ladies Free -

1. Alysa - Unnerved; competitive; As posted upthread, something I haven't seen since the day of Kwan.
2. Bell - I like her jump layout which maximizes her BV by repeating the Lutz and Flip. Would it be possible for her to do a 3Z-2A sequence instead of a 3Z-2T? Wagner used to do triple-2A sequence in her Samson & Delilah days. I don't know if the system still allows it. Two points might be a big deal competing against Young You and Wakaba Higuchi at Worlds and you are fighting to regain 3 spots for the US.
3. Tennell - FWIW, she rotated her 2nd 3-3 last night, an element which bedeviled her last Fall on the GP circuit. I think the Loop was an aberration and I expect she will be fine for Worlds
 

UGG

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I just watched the press conference and Bradie was only asked 2 questions and one of them was why she changed her costume. WTF. I thought that was completely outrageous. She looked totally annoyed and I loved her answer...”because I didn’t like it”

She is a friggin athlete. 🙄🙄🙄
 

gkelly

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Would it be possible for her to do a 3Z-2A sequence instead of a 3Z-2T? Wagner used to do triple-2A sequence in her Samson & Delilah days. I don't know if the system still allows it.

Jump, step forward, axel is now the only valid sequence still allowed.

However, as always, sequences only earn 80% of the base value of the two jumps.

I haven't done the math, but would (3Lz+2A)x0.8 be worth more or less than 3Lz+2T?

It may depend on likely GOE as to which is the wiser approach.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

Frangi & Piazza & Paul & Hektor & Theo. Oh My! 😝
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Refresh my morning Baileys ...

Why does Mariah have an under rotation on her triple but with positive GOE

And then Bradie has a triple with an under rotation with negative GOE...

Suspicious judging? Or ...

I can’t believe Bradie PCS is four points lower than Mariah.

I think Bradie should return to her Romeo and Juliet long program for the rest of the year. Because at least that music cut has tension and some excitement to it. Cinema Paradiso is rather static and monotone.

Just my two cents, now I need to go refill that Bailey’s ......
 

analia

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Bell has always deserved more PCS than she was getting. That being said not a single one of her jumps last night had good flow out.
 

sk9tingfan

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alysa liu is a phenomenal figure skater and she is only 14 I think she might definitely win gold for the Olympics in the future And when she is old enough she will be very good in international competition

I can't help but make comparisons between her and Michelle Kwan at this age. Regardless of her incredible technical ability, like Michelle, she has yet to discover/find her artistic apex. That being said, she is uncommonly transparent as to what she needs to work on in terms of component scores. That shows a degree of maturity beyond her years. She also seems to have to same underlying steely strength and determination that Kwan had at that age.
 

NAOTMAA

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Refresh my morning Baileys ...

Why does Mariah have an under rotation on her triple but with positive GOE

And then Bradie has a triple with an under rotation with negative GOE...

Suspicious judging? Or ...

I can’t believe Bradie PCS is four points lower than Mariah.

I think Bradie should return to her Romeo and Juliet long program for the rest of the year. Because at least that music cut has tension and some excitement to it. Cinema Paradiso is rather static and monotone.

Just my two cents, now I need to go refill that Bailey’s ......

Mariah's style (big in your face emotions on my sleeve) is very much the style that is usually favored by US fans and judges. I think Bradie has taken her que from the Russians and Japanese trying to be more transition oriented (ignoring the big faces you'll notice Mariah has far less transitions) which is more appreciated internationally.

I think it was pretty clear after the short Bradie wasn't their favorite to win. Only one of the big three to go squeeky clean yet she barely had a 3.5 point lead over a a girl who had a bad landing on a jump and 5.5 point lead over the third lady who fell. Her lead should have been bigger. The final podium is likely the one they wanted before the competition started.

The final standings are 100% fair (Bradie didn't help herself of course) so they ended up getting what they wanted. They obviously all of them benefited from inflation but Mariah and Alysa did more so. I think international judges will be far kinder to Bradie then US judges were.
 
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IloveFS

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I am looking for a link to Mariah Bell's FS from last night that will work in Canada! I want to post on FB.

I thought she definitely had the performance of the evening! Love her!
 

AngieNikodinovLove

Frangi & Piazza & Paul & Hektor & Theo. Oh My! 😝
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I think it was pretty clear after the short Bradie wasn't their favorite to win. Only one of the big three to go squeeky clean yet she barely had a 3.5 point lead over a a girl who had a bad landing on a jump and 5.5 point lead over the third lady who fell. Her lead should have been bigger. The final podium is likely the one they wanted before the competition started.

???

She got the highest short program score ever recorded…
 

NAOTMAA

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959
???

She got the highest short program score ever recorded…

Maybe so but looking at the marks Alysa (75+) and Mariah (73+) got with their mistakes Bradie's 78+ suddenly looks a little small. I have trouble believing the judges wouldn't have gone over that if they were clean. Everyone was saying without the fall Mariah would likely have been first (which I personally think would have been crazy). And imagine Alysa's score if she didn't fumble the landing on her 3A. I just don't think the judges had Bradie as the winner in mind
 

feraina

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So, Euros has concluded, and it looks like U.S. ladies might actually be competitive for a bronze if Trusova is to continue to have jump issues that have dogged her since Russian Nationals. She is still rail thin, but I feel like she might be starting to fill out the tiniest bit, and it's starting to affect her rotation. She was very under-rotated on her second 4T today, a half a turn or more short. Scherbakova is also extremely pubescent, so it remains to be seen how well she can retain her jump arsenal. But she has more PCS to fall back on than Trusova. Kostornaia is out of reach for now, and her jump techniques are really impressive. Of course, if all the ladies skate clean, U.S. ladies can only hope for 5th or 6th (after Kihira and/or You). But the 3A's are not looking as invincible at the moment as they used to. Well, of course it all depends on PCS as well, and international judges have not been generous with PCS when it comes to US ladies (and very generous with Russian ladies). But I've gotta hope that if US ladies can keep on working on their transitions and artistry, and keep on putting out clean programs, that international judges will give them higher PCS... Also Worlds is in Montreal this year, so maybe that'll help.

I wonder how many TES points Mariah Bell is losing by not including a second 3-3 (and thus having 7 triples + 1 2A when the other top ladies without a quad/3A are doing 7 triples + 2A). Perhaps repeating 3Lz and 3F instead of one of those plus 3T actually doesn't put her at too much disadvantage? For example, in the FS protocols, Mariah has a BV of 60.34 and Tennell has a BV of 60.19, where Mariah under-rotated a 3Lz while Tennell under-rotated a 3F (so it hurts Bell's BV slightly more than Tennell's), and Mariah had a level 3 spin, while Tennell didn't manage to get a 3-jump combo in, so missing out on either a 2T or 2Lp. In any case, their BV's are very comparable! I'm actually amazed at how high Bell's BV is, and of course her program is a lot less risky than another one that has two 3-3's. In fact, Mariah's FS last year, which had no 3-3 at all, but just a 2A+3T, still had the same BV as what she has now. But maybe not having any 3-3 makes judges want to hand out lower PCS (though it shouldn't).
 

BittyBug

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Because under IJS the value of a combo is just the sum of its parts, it really doesn’t matter much how you mix and match your jumps. And unless you can do a triple loop as the back end of your combo, doing two 3-3’s means that you’re repeating the triple toe, the lowest value triple. Better to repeat the lutz and flip, even though that means one of them will have to be done in combo with only a double.
 

UGG

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Mariah's style (big in your face emotions on my sleeve) is very much the style that is usually favored by US fans and judges. I think Bradie has taken her que from the Russians and Japanese trying to be more transition oriented (ignoring the big faces you'll notice Mariah has far less transitions) which is more appreciated internationally.

I think it was pretty clear after the short Bradie wasn't their favorite to win. Only one of the big three to go squeeky clean yet she barely had a 3.5 point lead over a a girl who had a bad landing on a jump and 5.5 point lead over the third lady who fell. Her lead should have been bigger. The final podium is likely the one they wanted before the competition started.

The final standings are 100% fair (Bradie didn't help herself of course) so they ended up getting what they wanted. They obviously all of them benefited from inflation but Mariah and Alysa did more so. I think international judges will be far kinder to Bradie then US judges were.

Are you Bradie’s mom?🙄

I can’t with the conspiracy theory at a competition where Bradie has the highest SP score ever, and the the final results were correct 🤣🤣🤣
 

giselle23

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I can't help but make comparisons between her and Michelle Kwan at this age. Regardless of her incredible technical ability, like Michelle, she has yet to discover/find her artistic apex. That being said, she is uncommonly transparent as to what she needs to work on in terms of component scores. That shows a degree of maturity beyond her years. She also seems to have to same underlying steely strength and determination that Kwan had at that age.

And to show how much the scoring system has changed, at 1995 Worlds, 14 year old Michelle had the most difficult technical program, with 7 triples and two 3lutzes. She was the only one of the top skaters to skate 2 clean programs. And she didn’t even get a medal. Under the old system, young skaters were held back despite better tech. Even Tara Lipinski, who won Worlds at age 14, only did so because Michelle made mistakes in her short program (often fatal under 6.0). Michelle ended up winning the long over Tara despite easier tech but it was not enough to overcome the earlier mistakes.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

Frangi & Piazza & Paul & Hektor & Theo. Oh My! 😝
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Are you Bradie’s mom?🙄

I can’t with the conspiracy theory at a competition where Bradie has the highest SP score ever, and the the final results were correct 🤣🤣🤣

I agree. That poster cray. Like all seven and tech judges came to them and told them what they were going to do or what they were thinking.

Bradie got her buns all the way to the GP final. Since Alysa is ineligible I don’t think anyone else was at the top of those judges minds then Miss Bradie.
 

Foolhardy Ham Lint

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6,277
So, Euros has concluded, and it looks like U.S. ladies might actually be competitive for a bronze if Trusova is to continue to have jump issues that have dogged her since Russian Nationals. She is still rail thin, but I feel like she might be starting to fill out the tiniest bit, and it's starting to affect her rotation. She was very under-rotated on her second 4T today, a half a turn or more short. Scherbakova is also extremely pubescent, so it remains to be seen how well she can retain her jump arsenal. But she has more PCS to fall back on than Trusova. Kostornaia is out of reach for now, and her jump techniques are really impressive. Of course, if all the ladies skate clean, U.S. ladies can only hope for 5th or 6th (after Kihira and/or You). But the 3A's are not looking as invincible at the moment as they used to. Well, of course it all depends on PCS as well, and international judges have not been generous with PCS when it comes to US ladies (and very generous with Russian ladies). But I've gotta hope that if US ladies can keep on working on their transitions and artistry, and keep on putting out clean programs, that international judges will give them higher PCS... Also Worlds is in Montreal this year, so maybe that'll help.

I wonder how many TES points Mariah Bell is losing by not including a second 3-3 (and thus having 7 triples + 1 2A when the other top ladies without a quad/3A are doing 7 triples + 2A). Perhaps repeating 3Lz and 3F instead of one of those plus 3T actually doesn't put her at too much disadvantage? For example, in the FS protocols, Mariah has a BV of 60.34 and Tennell has a BV of 60.19, where Mariah under-rotated a 3Lz while Tennell under-rotated a 3F (so it hurts Bell's BV slightly more than Tennell's), and Mariah had a level 3 spin, while Tennell didn't manage to get a 3-jump combo in, so missing out on either a 2T or 2Lp. In any case, their BV's are very comparable! I'm actually amazed at how high Bell's BV is, and of course her program is a lot less risky than another one that has two 3-3's. In fact, Mariah's FS last year, which had no 3-3 at all, but just a 2A+3T, still had the same BV as what she has now. But maybe not having any 3-3 makes judges want to hand out lower PCS (though it shouldn't).

Keep in mind you are comparing international scores against national scores, which tends to colour points somewhat.

Also, there was probably a little bit of pressure off the three Russians this week. They were always going to podium, no matter how they skated. Nobody else in the final twenty-four was even close to what they were putting out there.

It's funny, but without better outside competition driving them, the only intensity is shared between all three.
 
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Theoreticalgirl

your faves are problematic
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1,341
I don't have anything particularly insightful to say about the Ladies event at Nats, but just wanted to say how much I deeply enjoyed the event from start to finish.

While the TES minimums did whittle down the size of the fields this year, the general quality of the skating went waaaaay up. Previously at the Championship level, some of those early groups were a struggle, and I can't say I felt that way this time around. Having watched Regionals and Sectionals (some IRL!), I had a strong sense of how good some of these athletes were, and so the bad skates felt more like off nights.

Quick opinions:
  • Bradie's SP is one of the best programs of the year (IMHO!) and her performance here at Nats was the best we've seen her do it. Sparkling, sassy, elegant, and deeply modern.
  • Gracie, what to say? It's been a hard road to travel and not her best technical showing, but an important event. I'm glad she's back. I can't wait to see where she goes from here.
  • I wasn't surprised by Alysa's win and while I'm happy for our Demon Angel Baby Savior of American Ladies Figure Skating, the night truly belonged to Mariah Bell and that phenomenal free skate. Both of these were gold medal skates in my book.
 
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