U.S. Ladies [#25]: Method in the Madness

[barbarafan]

Adam, Nathan and other skaters at their rink would know whether they had to be separated on different sessions and in different locker rooms, as has been alleged.

Nathan is at Yale...quite far from the rink and Adam is wherever there is a camera.Apparently bullying increased as Worlds came closer.

 

[LarrySK8]

Is there some reason you refuse to say Eunsoo’s name?

Yes, I refuse to yield to a poster/member here who told me directly not to call her, "the Korean skater." I will not be bullied into changing how I express myself, and there is nothing wrong with how I describe the Korean skater as, "the skater from Korea."

 

[starrynight]

Rafael spoke out here: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://rsport.ria.ru/20190321/1551992490.html

Based on Google Translate, it sounds like he's saying that possibly Mariah accidentally knocked Eunsoo during her run-through but denies that Mariah would deliberately hurt anyone or any sort of bullying. Of course any Russian speakers who can properly translate would be helpful....

This is Rafs comment on the incident

 

[GullyGirl84]

So it looks like Raf is also denying that there has even been any issue in terms of training between Mariah and Eunsoo (but I will agree with people who have said that Raf could have been unaware of other things going on, but it seems like he would be aware if it had escalated to the point of separate schedules, etc.). Annnddd now the story is on Newsweek and on TMZ with the headline "US Figure Skater Accused of Slashing Korean Rival".
on edit: I saw a different translation where he said they were never at odds "at the practices" vs the "at the training sessions", so not sure if he means training in CA or practice sessions for worlds...

 

[JamieElena]

and WaPo: https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...petitor/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.89208f4243b4

 

[Colonel Green]

Frankly, at this point either Mariah is a psycho or Eunsoo spontaneously decided to tell a bunch of easily-disprovable lies for some reason. Neither makes much rational sense, so which of these is true and which false is hard to assess.

 

[VGThuy]

So it looks like Raf is also denying that there has even been any issue in terms of training between Mariah and Eunsoo (but I will agree with people who have said that Raf could have been unaware of other things going on, but it seems like he would be aware if it had escalated to the point of separate schedules, etc.). Annnddd now the story is on Newsweek and on TMZ with the headline "US Figure Skater Accused of Slashing Korean Rival".
on edit: I saw a different translation where he said they were never at odds "at the practices" vs the "at the training sessions", so not sure if he means training in CA or practice sessions for worlds...

Raf was cited as someone who was AWARE that bullying was going on and instigated the changing of the locker rooms or what not. So it was more than him being unaware of any bullying that was alleged. If Raf denies this to be true, that's another hit on ATS' credibility as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Rukia]

It seems like Raf would also know if they rink had to officially warn Mariah.

I'm almost wondering if Eunsoo got thrown into something she didn't expect. Like saying to her team after whatever happened "Oh she always skates close and scares me" or something and they ran with it. Idk. Nothing is quite adding up here.

 

[oleada]

and WaPo: https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...petitor/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.89208f4243b4

From that article:

“At this stage, we can’t conclude Bell caused the injury on purpose,” a Korea Skating Union official said, adding that Lim’s parents also mentioned the incident to the ISU. “It is hard to tell just by watching the video footage of the incident.”

So even the Korean fed says there's nothing on video and you can't say that Bell did this on purpose.

 

[Coco]

It's totally plausible to imagine a 15 or 16 year old girl in a country not her own, maybe with language barrier issues, feeling that the popular girl at the rink is mean to her. It's very easy to see how that perception could develop in Lim's mind. But that is a really far cry from Mariah intentionally bullying anybody.

So it is possible that they are both right in their perception of the situation, with regards to the atmosphere and training. Whether or not they were separated because of an issue between them is a black-and-white question, however.

If ATS is lying, I think skater should boycott their shows.

 

[VGThuy]

From that article:



So even the Korean fed says there's nothing on video and you can't say that Bell did this on purpose.

I'd definitely keep that statement and use it against ATS. I hope someone on Bell's side is reading this and my other post if she DID NOT intentionally hurt Lim and took no part in any orchestrated bullying of Lim. If I was innocent of these allegations, I would definitely sue. Even in the pictures where some of Lim's most ardent defenders claim show Bell attacked Lim (which we know the pics don't show anything like that), you see Bell is in full character mode and doing the choreography in her run-through. Bell could use those pics to say she felt she had enough space to do the move she normally does during that part of the choreography and didn't even realize she accidentally cut Lim as it obviously was a superficial wound as Lim skated her SP.

 

[BlueRidge]

and WaPo: https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...petitor/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.89208f4243b4

OMG, I can't believe this made the Washington Post.

 

[eurodance2001]

I fully expect Lim to leave Raf after this. No way will he put up with this type of BS nor does he need to to be quite honest. Death threats and bullying on Bell, her boyfriend, Bell's family, and Ashley Wagner is enough to show the crazy that exists which no amount of money is worth.

 

[zoe111]

OMG, I can't believe this made the Washington Post.

you know this is just, absolutely ridiculous. Mariah was in a run through. Not only does that give her the right of way completely, it would be a physical feat beyond the possible to somehow turn around in the middle of a spread eagle or whatever she was doing, stab someone with a blade, and get back to her program. This isn't even remotely plausible and I do not understand how anyone, from trashy media to mainstream media to casual fan, could believe this were true. Just imagine the physics involved for a minute, then add in the swath of spectators and media. Mariah would have had to stop what she was doing, do something nefarious, and then keep going with the music. This. Is. Nuts

 

[thvu]

Let's cut her a break; she's sixteen.

Even so, whoever thought they were helping her has done her a world of disservice.

As a teacher, this is something I get. She's 16, and probably has no idea about the idiots surrounding her (her agency and parents.) Still, it's all being done in her name, so for me, it has to fall on her unless she publicly comes out against the comments made by her agency.

 

[LarrySK8]

I would definitely sue.

ITA. Accusing someone of a crime (assault) when it is false, and damaging their reputation is called slander. Printing it is libel.

I am no big fan of Mariah personally or in regard to her skating, but what ATS, the Korean Federation, the skater from Korea's parents, etc have done amounts to slander and the press has committed libel against Mariah.

That is how this appears.

 

[wickedwitch]

It seems like Raf would also know if they rink had to officially warn Mariah.

I'm almost wondering if Eunsoo got thrown into something she didn't expect. Like saying to her team after whatever happened "Oh she always skates close and scares me" or something and they ran with it. Idk. Nothing is quite adding up here.

That's the most logical explanation by far.

The next most plausible explanation is that Lim and/or her team want to get her out of her contract with Raf, but he wouldn't budge.

 

[Rukia]

you know this is just, absolutely ridiculous. Mariah was in a run through. Not only does that give her the right of way completely, it would be a physical feat beyond the possible to somehow turn around in the middle of a spread eagle or whatever she was doing, stab someone with a blade, and get back to her program. This isn't even remotely plausible and I do not understand how anyone, from trashy media to mainstream media to casual fan, could believe this were true. Just imagine the physics involved for a minute, then add in the swath of spectators and media. Mariah would have had to stop what she was doing, do something nefarious, and then keep going with the music. This. Is. Nuts

Not to mention how sharp blades are. I don't even keep mine super sharp, but I have cut my finger on them if I'm not careful when cleaning. I had a friend in my adult group freestyle class that accidentally caught herself with her blade, and she couldn't skate for like a week.

If Mariah wanted to deliberately cause some damage with them she could have. It doesn't even look like it cut Eunsoo's leggings in the pictures? I would guess there are pictures I haven't seen. I'm so confused by all this.

 

[eurodance2001]

Not to mention how sharp blades are. I don't even keep mine super sharp, but I have cut my finger on them if I'm not careful when cleaning. I had a friend in my adult group freestyle class that accidentally caught herself with her blade, and she couldn't skate for like a week.

If Mariah wanted to deliberately cause some damage with them she could have. It doesn't even look like it cut Eunsoo's leggings in the pictures? I would guess there are pictures I haven't seen. I'm so confused by all this.

Plus Mariah could've hurt herself as well thus having to WD from Worlds.

 

[JamieElena]

yes, somehow, we're supposed to believe that a criminal assault (let's not mince words, that's what kicking & stabbing constitutes) was committed in front of hundreds of fans, coaches, choreographers and media and no one did anything, no one called police, no one told officials right then. The only outcome was a PR agency went to one media agency to report the incident.

you know this is just, absolutely ridiculous. Mariah was in a run through. Not only does that give her the right of way completely, it would be a physical feat beyond the possible to somehow turn around in the middle of a spread eagle or whatever she was doing, stab someone with a blade, and get back to her program. This isn't even remotely plausible and I do not understand how anyone, from trashy media to mainstream media to casual fan, could believe this were true. Just imagine the physics involved for a minute, then add in the swath of spectators and media. Mariah would have had to stop what she was doing, do something nefarious, and then keep going with the music. This. Is. Nuts

 

[BlueRidge]

That's the most logical explanation by far.

The next most plausible explanation is that Lim and/or her team want to get her out of her contract with Raf, but he wouldn't budge.

That seems weird to me, I'm more convinced by the publicity opportunity that the publicists saw it and ginned it up. That's weird as hell to us in the US, but skating is mainstream in Korea so a lot more is riding on it.

 

[LarrySK8]

It doesn't even look like it cut Eunsoo's leggings in the pictures?

Tights/leggings stretch and hide a great deal. I have seen leggings go unharmed while the tissue underneath is cut, bruised, etc. You can't tell from looking at the leggings.

Despite that, and having said that, the skater from Korea owes Mariah an apology for getting in her way during a run through. She owes her an apology for accusing her of assault.

 

[flyingsit]

I wonder if the supposed bullying is just different expectations versus what Lim was used to in Korea. If she was the top dog at her previous rink and went to California expecting deference, and when she got there not only is she not the top skater/priority, she's not even the top female skater in the rink. "When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."

 

[Carolla5501]

The truth is that it's time for all of us to quit feeding the monster and take our fingers off the keyboard. If there's a problem let those involved work it out. All we are doing is gossiping and it probably makes us look as bad as either skater.

 

[attyfan]

Is it established that something must have come from Lim? Perhaps someone from ATS saw the incident and went off on their own?

 

[Skittl1321]

ITA. Accusing someone of a crime (assault) when it is false, and damaging their reputation is called slander. Printing it is libel.

I am no big fan of Mariah personally or in regard to her skating, but what ATS, the Korean Federation, the skater from Korea's parents, etc have done amounts to slander and the press has committed libel against Mariah.

That is how this appears.

Reporting that the accusation happened is not libel though. So I don't know that the press has committed libel.

 

[personwhoishere]

I hope someone deleted Mariah's social media apps for the weekend. Her instagram is full of nasty, hateful comments. I too am shocked at the traction this story is getting. It's completely absurd.

 

[JamieElena]

Ya know and not for nothing, to use the word "stabbed" in this context, so soon after Denis Ten really was stabbed is in extreme poor taste, IMHO.

 

[UGG]

Yea- a news agency reporting is not liable but she could probably sue the agency of defamation of character?

 

[Wyliefan]

I hope someone deleted Mariah's social media apps for the weekend. Her instagram is full of nasty, hateful comments. I too am shocked at the traction this story is getting. It's completely absurd.

Someone on Twitter who claims to know the skaters (but it's Twitter, so who knows) says that Adam has taken away Mariah's phone for the duration of the competition. I hope it's true. She does not need to see this.