U.S. Ladies [#20]: In a Week, Maybe Two, They'll Make You a Star

[triple_toe]

I find it completely hilarious how many people assumed Gracie's twitter *must have* been hacked because she was tweeting like a normal person. It just shows how overwhelming the PC-speak of figure skaters is, and how incredibly large the difference is between their public persona and their genuine personality.

Also, anyone who has won medals in senior ladies at nationals is a snarky cutthroat bitch , don't let the sweet image fool you. These girls are competitive, disciplined, strong, and determined to an extent far beyond what most of us encounter. The cream of the crop spend their lives cold, hungry, tired, in pain, socially isolated, and driven by success and competition, incessantly jockeying for position. You have to be tough or you'll get eaten alive. You think Eteri's girls are having sleep overs and braiding each other's hair?

I for one lurve Gracie's tweets, they are ICONIC and make the event. YASS QUEEN

 

[triple_toe]

Oops, double post.

 

[tylersf]

Wait - Karen wasn't impressive in her first World's where she finished 4th and Ashley finished in 7th?

Rank Name Nation Total points SP FS
1 Evgenia Medvedeva

Russia 233.41 1 79.01 1 154.40
2 Kaetlyn Osmond

Canada 218.13 2 75.98 2 142.15
3 Gabrielle Daleman

Canada 213.52 3 72.19 3 141.33
4 Karen Chen

United States 199.29 5 69.98 6 129.31
5 Mai Mihara

Japan 197.88 15 59.59 4 138.29
6 Carolina Kostner

Italy 196.83 8 66.33 5 130.50
7 Ashley Wagner

United States 193.54 7 69.04 10 124.50

I am sad for Ashley, she lost on PCS. But apparently Karen is liked better by the judges. Karen did not impress me at all at worlds, but the international panel also went with her as US number one last season.
Glad for Mirai.

 

[Tinami Amori]

You think Eteri's girls are having sleep overs and braiding each other's hair?

They actually do.... as strange as it sounds.. . They hug each other after practices, comfort each other, prefer to share a room when travelling together (vs. single room) and buy each other gifts when one travels abroad, and share the fans' toys and flowers. (there were links posted before). Zagitova and Medvedeva are like sisters.. And Medvedeva gives away her dresses to younger girls, and to Zagitova...

http://www.sankei.com/images/news/171126/prm1711260001-p21.jpg

http://c8.alamy.com/comp/HF07P0/che...-gold-medalist-evgenia-medvedeva-l-HF07P0.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuJXhempX30
https://scontent-frx5-1.cdninstagra...51_1563185287037113_5507873211510947840_n.jpg

 

[triple_toe]

They actually do.... as strange as it sounds.. . They hug each other after practices, comfort each other, prefer to share a room when travelling together (vs. single room) and buy each other gifts when one travels abroad, and share the fans' toys and flowers. (there were links posted before). Zagitova and Medvedeva are like sisters.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuJXhempX30

I'm not being fully serious, because yes you need to have some form of friendship and camaraderie just to get through the day. My point is that these girls are competitors *first*, friends second. As much as you get along with someone, the fact that your fundamental relationship is trying to beat the other person in direct competition gives it an edge. Also, it's much easier to be friends when there's a familiar, clear hierarchy in place (as well as when you're younger). Somehow I find it difficult to believe that Medvedva and Zagitova would be so close if they were, for example, trading victories back and forth over the past year, or if there was a clear shift in hierarchy akin to the Davis/White vs Virtue/Moir dynamic. That isn't to say you're going to be horrible to your competitors or you can't be friends later on, but you can only be so close when you view the other person-- on some level-- with a target on their back. Whether Medvedeva and Zagitova are like sisters or not, I'll hazard a guess that if they really had to choose, they'd rather have an Olympic gold medal than a sister

 

[Tinami Amori]

I'm not being fully serious, because yes you need to have some form of friendship and camaraderie just to get through the day. My point is that these girls are competitors *first*, friends second.

All Eteri's girls, said 100 times in the interviews "we are only competitors on ice. off ice we're friends". Young Russian girls mean it when they say it. they are not coached on how to be politically correct in the interviews, except on 1 issue "do not discuss technique"... And as you remember the girls from other groups/rinks openly said "we're not here to make friends".... and yes, Eteri's girls do braid each other's hair and share costumes.

 

[triple_toe]

All Eteri's girls, said 100 times in the interviews "we are only competitors on ice. off ice we're friends". Young Russian girls mean it when they say it. they are not coached on how to be politically correct in the interviews, except on 1 issue "do not discuss technique"... And as you remember the girls from other groups/rinks openly said "we're not here to make friends".... and yes, Eteri's girls do braid each other's hair and share costumes.

Yes, and that's exactly what I'm trying to say. No matter how slight, that dynamic inevitably bleeds into other interactions, especially as you age. It's a lot easier when you're younger and Eteri's girls have that on their side. You can still be friends with someone, be respectful, be supportive, even love them, etc but no one has such radical powers of compartmentalization as to view someone completely differently as soon as you get off the ice. To say nothing of the fact that the majority of the time they see each other is on the ice. Honestly, I don't understand your nitpick here... I'm just saying Eteri's rink is not a feel good rink. I admire their fierce competitiveness; that's why they win. I'd rather fierce than sweet any day. My point with Gracie is that no individually successful athlete at that level is all rainbows and sunshine.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I'm just saying Eteri's rink is not a feel good rink..

It actually is a "feel good rink".... but some entities few years ago started a nasty smear campaign against Eteri and her group, for strictly personal reasons and ego. But i don't feel like rehashing it in US Ladies topic..... plus, what "the others' think about Eteri" is not that relevant. Yet i am amazed and closely following her group EXACTLY because of this never seen before productive and effective atmosphere which makes girls feel like "family".

 

[triple_toe]

@Tinami, let's agree to disagree, but I just want you to know, it's in no way a pejorative in my mind when I say it's not a feel good rink. It's a compliment if anything. I respect the hell out of Eteri for fostering such a successful, highly competitive training program... moreso than something like Kori Ade's whole let's-colour-on-tshirts-and-have-fun schtick (bring on the ).

In such an ultra-feminized sport, I've noticed an overall attitude in North America (not attributed to you personally) that anything other than a sweet, nice, lovely, smiling face is somehow seen as a negative. That being a ruthless competitor who's explicitly out to win is somehow less preferable at best and vulgar at worst. The only respectable comportment is one of docility and precocious, innocent charm.

Well boo on that! I don't want a girl who goes out and tries her best just to have fun blah blah blah I want some fierce realness, unapologetic competitive fire and naked passion. Anyone can be nice, not everyone can be a winner You can still be respectful without the false timidity. So RESPECT to all these ice QUEENS, from Gracie to Bradie to Mirai to Ashley to Medvedeva to Zagitova. Keep slaying girls And keep tweeting Gracie, you're a rockstar.

 

[ZilphaK]

Part of me is in awe of all skaters but at the same time, my critical faculties are in complete and total darkness about why Angela Wang inspires so much devotion here. I wish some time someone would explain why she is so good instead of just saying it. This is not directed at anyone in particular. She clearly has many fans. ( She has even been compared to Kwan. Just no!)

OK, so I think I was one of the people who once compared her to Michelle Kwan -- in fact, I think it was recently, after the Philly Summer Competition. I'm not sure I would have done so just from seeing her on tv, but in person, she is a very elegant, finished skater, connects to audience without having to wink or wave or anything , and just took so many moments on the ice. I know current IJS seems to reward, in my mind, a program with a lot of "stuff" going on (at the extreme end, what I call "whickety-whack transitions"), but Angela's programs feel "full" to me, in their simplicity.

She's an athletic jumper, and when she hits the jumps, it's thrilling. They look big, confident and with flow in an out, nice air position, toe point, finger tips extended. She has a classic look, feel...maybe that comes across a little throw-back/old-school, but sometimes her programs feel like a relief from all the "stuff going on" programs. And she skates like a woman on the ice. It's sexy without needing to shimmy and shake. I'm a Virgo, so I appreciate that kind of thing.

Also, she has a lovely smile.

I don't know that she'll ever light up the international arenas, but I'm still a fan.

ETA: Just looked at the Philly Summer Competition thread. Yup! It was me! I said "heartfelt skate, moments of Michelle Kwan."

 

[Spun Silver]

Aha! One of the prIme offenders! J/K.

Thank you for trying, @Jozet. I mean, you are very clear. I am just not sold. But hey, go Angela!

 

[NAOTMAA]

Part of me is in awe of all skaters but at the same time, my critical faculties are in complete and total darkness about why Angela Wang inspires so much devotion here. I wish some time someone would explain why she is so good instead of just saying it. This is not directed at anyone in particular. She clearly has many fans. ( She has even been compared to Kwan. Just no!)

To be honest this week was the first time I really watched Angela skate

And while I wouldn't say I became a great fan or anything I really liked the way she moved. She had a very elegant, pretty, soft and delicate way of moving her body and skating across the ice. I actually think she reminded me a lot of Angela Nikodinov, who I absolutely loved

 

[ZilphaK]

Aha! One of the prIme offenders! J/K.

Thank you for trying, @Jozet. I mean, you are very clear. I am just not sold. But hey, go Angela!

Lol! s'OK. I gave it a go.

 

[Jarrett]

Wait - Karen wasn't impressive in her first World's where she finished 4th and Ashley finished in 7th?

Rank Name Nation Total points SP FS
1 Evgenia Medvedeva

Russia 233.41 1 79.01 1 154.40
2 Kaetlyn Osmond

Canada 218.13 2 75.98 2 142.15
3 Gabrielle Daleman

Canada 213.52 3 72.19 3 141.33
4 Karen Chen

United States 199.29 5 69.98 6 129.31
5 Mai Mihara

Japan 197.88 15 59.59 4 138.29
6 Carolina Kostner

Italy 196.83 8 66.33 5 130.50
7 Ashley Wagner

United States 193.54 7 69.04 10 124.50

Um, it is pretty clearly written she didn't impress the poster. Is that shocking people have different opinions?

 

[Tinami Amori]

@Tinami, let's agree to disagree, but I just want you to know, it's in no way a pejorative in my mind when I say it's not a feel good rink. It's a compliment if anything. I respect the hell out of Eteri for fostering such a successful, highly competitive training program... moreso than something like Kori Ade's whole let's-colour-on-tshirts-and-have-fun schtick (bring on the ).

I appreciate what you're saying, and we're not having a fight, but to me the term "agree to disagree" is not quite applicable, because while we both have opinions, there are also facts of what is taking place in Eteri's group and between the girls, which are documented in interviews, by the girls, the parents, in fotos and videos (which of course people are free to draw opinions from).

As I said, there is an intentional smear campaign started by several entities, for various reasons against Eteri. one of them is a well-known russian journalist who did not get "his/her way" with Eteri and is known to hold grudges against trainers and skaters who do not "cooperate" in the interviews. the others have their own reasons, such as finding justification for their lack of success "if Eteri's Hell Camp System is what it takes to win, then we rather not win by such methods".

To demonstrate one example (out of many, in various forms), this video states that Eteri starves and abuses Zagitova.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIY6rYG5RgE

The facts are different:
Here are fotos from the same competition as on the video: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRwIEzBX0AULvrC.jpg
... and here is another https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cq0TQ0KVUAEdy3P.jpg

And here is one Eteri buying Zagitova cakes and soda after a good event: http://i0.wp.com/sport-inside.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/1-00003.jpg?resize=558,546
..it is not Eteri's fault that Julia's metabolism was such that she gained weight just by smelling food. Julia and Mother had a choice, knowing her body, not to continue at such a cost.
...Medvedeva and other girls eat everything in site, and do not have a weight problem... but of course, an athlete has to watch weight.
http://www.fsrussia.ru/images/interviyou/EvgeniaMedvedeva/Medved5.jpg
https://stat.ameba.jp/user_images/20160831/06/jdcrsh1004/92/87/j/o0640036013736505412.jpg?caw=800
... it's a lie that Eteri takes away their snacks....
http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/sakicchoman/imgs/3/3/336f29c4.jpg

Zagitova eats cakes and pastries just like any kid. https://www.instagram.com/p/BURzz3Qg__L/?hl=en&taken-by=azagitova

...Abused girls willing to claw each other…. nothing but hard labor at the rink.. nhttps://www.instagram.com/p/BSTJA4QAcKp/?hl=en&taken-by=azagitova

...Eteri tortures them …. at a health spa…
https://www.instagram.com/p/BPQQN7bgFm5/?hl=en&taken-by=azagitova

… she makes them wear her rags… I mean the mink coats which she no longer needs..
https://www.instagram.com/p/BKMALGmg5Y7/?hl=en&taken-by=azagitova

…. throws them to the zoo animals… https://www.instagram.com/p/BHpYADtAAZW/?hl=en&taken-by=azagitova

… forces them to skip New Year dinners…. https://www.instagram.com/p/_95O3LKLgR/?hl=en&taken-by=azagitova

…. And makes their day of practice a living Hell…..
https://www.instagram.com/p/_1bh--qLi-/?hl=en&taken-by=azagitova
https://www.instagram.com/p/BEnjz6_qLg4/?hl=en&taken-by=azagitova

So you're free to have opinions, but there are facts, and i will state them if i see a discrepancy..

There are more examples of discrepancies between "truth" and opinions and intentional smears.... but as i said, this is a US Ladies topic.

 

[berthesghost]

So do fans. A couple friends and I were discussing the ladies last night. One is mostly an every four years fan but she follows it enough to dislike Wagner. The other hasn't really followed skating in the last decade and has no cable TV so she has to be sent links. So, last night she looked up the top US ladies programs on YouTube and immediately thought Ashley was dressed and acting "like a whore" on ice but that she "did pretty good", so I took it upon myself to find some links to better versions of Hip Hip Chin Chin to show her, which she watched and once she saw those, she could see the difference in the performance levels. Point is, if even a casual fan, watching a couple of different performances of the same program, can see the level of quality was lackluster on Wednesday, then you can be assured the judges knew it too. We all said it that night, and folks who were in the arena reported the same. It isn't a matter of hating on Ashley or wanting her to be dumped (frankly, Tennell does nothing for me) but being honest about the quality of Ashley's skating. She just wasn't all that great this week.

the amount of f$&@s I give about the opinion of your once every four years fan friends’ opinion is 0 but I’m prety sure calling a skater you don’t care for a “whore” is crossing a line most reasonable people are unwilling to cross but congrats on winning this years Tonya Harding trash talk classless banter award.

 

[Karen-W]

the amount of f$&@s I give about the opinion of your once every four years fan friends’ opinion is 0 but I’m prety sure calling a skater you don’t care for a “whore” is crossing a line most reasonable people are unwilling to cross but congrats on winning this years Tonya Harding trash talk classless banter award.

First of all, I didn't call Ashley that, that was my friend's observation. Secondly, the point I was making about Ashley's performance Wednesday night was that when even a casual fan, when presented with a better performance of the same SP, is capable of discerning the difference in quality, then you can bet the judges sitting right there in the arena were very aware of how lacking the performance was. And, third, just because my friend thought Ashley looked and acted like a whore on ice, that didn't prevent her from also thinking that, on first watch, she also did pretty good. No need to get your feathers ruffled over the "whore" observation. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and my friend is hardly the first person to think that about Hip Hip Chin Chin.

 

[berthesghost]

Who cares if your friend said it, you reported it on FSU and congrats on throwing your friend under the bus. Some friend you are. And your friend didn’t think Ashley was worse that previously until you shoved old Youtube videos in his/ her face and planted the idea in their head so who exactly do you think you are fooling with your “ who me? I’m just reporting facts” bs

 

[coppertop1]

Where's admin? This topic is getting out of hand

 

[Karen-W]

Who cares if your friend said it, you reported it on FSU and congrats on throwing your friend under the bus. Some friend you are. And your friend didn’t think Ashley was worse that previously until you shoved old Youtube videos in his/ her face and planted the idea in their head so who exactly do you think you are fooling with your “ who me? I’m just reporting facts” bs

Well, my friend would, if she was a member of FSU, totally own her opinion, and she wouldn't care that I told people she said it. Why don't you let me worry about whether or not I'm "throwing my friend under the bus" or how good of a friend I am? And, please, I didn't plant any ideas in my friend's head about Ashley. If anyone did that, it would have been the 3rd friend in the conversation, who opened up the conversation with telling us how much she hated "Miss Smug," which is her nickname for Ashley. Our friend was perfectly capable of determining, on her own, that she thought Ashley "did pretty good" and if she had disagreed with me after I sent her a couple of YouTube links, she would have said so. But, you go right ahead and judge the critical thinking skills of people you don't know.

For what it's worth, Ashley absolutely is selling a "sexy" persona on the ice and Hip Hip Chin Chin isn't the first program where she's adopted that type of a persona. My brother, who is most certainly a "figure skating only during the Olympics" viewer, texted me, four years ago, during Sochi, to ask who the "hot skater" was, referring to Ashley. I don't know why you are getting so defensive over this, unless you are uncomfortable with Ashley's "sexy" presentation style. If that's the sort of "class" she wants to present to the world, isn't that her choice? She's a grown woman and certainly seems comfortable in owning her sexuality, on and off the ice - and to that I say, "good for her."

 

[berthesghost]

But your friends aren’t on FSU are they Blanche, so it’s just you repeating private conversations in public and acting like that’s ok.

And if you can’t tell the difference between a performer acting “sexy” on stage and a viewer calling that same woman a “whore” than I really despair for humanity and the future of feminism

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Finger pointing begins:
Who's to blame for Wagner's failure in San Jose?
Skater hints at unfair judging; Others suggest fault lies with skater herself

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2018/01/06/264361486

"They still got the results right in my opinion (but with wrong numbers beside components)," longtime skating TV commentator Sandra Bezic wrote in a text message.

"Ashley's (free skate) program was truly lovely and nuanced, but it got overshadowed. She did herself a disservice by not using it all season. That also made her seem complacent.

"But she is to blame for not making the team. She underestimated how hungry the other women were. The right team is going to the Olympics."

Scott Hamilton had a similar view.

"Ashley has been in three Olympic cycles, and she has been vulnerable in the team selection process each time because she didn't skate her best at nationals," Hamilton said.

 

[Wyliefan]

For what it's worth, Ashley absolutely is selling a "sexy" persona on the ice and Hip Hip Chin Chin isn't the first program where she's adopted that type of a persona. My brother, who is most certainly a "figure skating only during the Olympics" viewer, texted me, four years ago, during Sochi, to ask who the "hot skater" was, referring to Ashley. I don't know why you are getting so defensive over this, unless you are uncomfortable with Ashley's "sexy" presentation style. If that's the sort of "class" she wants to present to the world, isn't that her choice? She's a grown woman and certainly seems comfortable in owning her sexuality, on and off the ice - and to that I say, "good for her."

Surely you realize the vast difference between "sexy" and "whore."

 

[chapis]

I wonder if the big sponsors would like go with Bradie and Mirai now that Gracie and Ashley are out of the team. I think that Mirai is so marketable with her story and 3a.

 

[ilovepaydays]

It depends on how well Bradie does at the Olympics. Is Mirai planning to continue to 2022? That can make a huge difference with sponsors because I think most would only want to put $$$ on someone who they see will go and be a star at the next Olympics.

 

[FiveRinger]

Finger pointing begins:
Who's to blame for Wagner's failure in San Jose?
Skater hints at unfair judging; Others suggest fault lies with skater herself

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2018/01/06/264361486

"They still got the results right in my opinion (but with wrong numbers beside components)," longtime skating TV commentator Sandra Bezic wrote in a text message.

"Ashley's (free skate) program was truly lovely and nuanced, but it got overshadowed. She did herself a disservice by not using it all season. That also made her seem complacent.

"But she is to blame for not making the team. She underestimated how hungry the other women were. The right team is going to the Olympics."

Scott Hamilton had a similar view.

"Ashley has been in three Olympic cycles, and she has been vulnerable in the team selection process each time because she didn't skate her best at nationals," Hamilton said.

It's amazing to me that Ashley likes to take credit for all of her wins and not take responsibility when she loses. The best thing she can do at this point is to just be quiet. She has said too much and didn't do enough.

 

[chapis]

It depends on how well Bradie does at the Olympics. Is Mirai planning to continue to 2022? That can make a huge difference with sponsors because I think most would only want to put $$$ on someone who they see will go and be a star at the next Olympics.

so there is not time for sponsors this season? Tessa V. is about of retiring and she is announcing news sponsors, I think .

 

[berthesghost]

It's amazing to me that Ashley likes to take credit for all of her wins and not take responsibility when she loses. The best thing she can do at this point is to just be quiet. She has said too much and didn't do enough.

You apparently haven’t seen “I, Tonya”

 

[ilovepaydays]

so there is not time for sponsors this season?

I would be surprised. Usually sponsors decide way before the Olympic season. Most of the $$$ that's made by athletes in Olympic sports are made way before they actually make the team.

 

[Frida80]

so there is not time for sponsors this season? Tessa V. is about of retiring and she is announcing news sponsors, I think .

NOt really. Nathan gained most of his sponsors over the summer and early fall. There may be a few that come. But having a reputation before the season is critical.