U.S. Ladies [#19]: Do You Know the Way to San Jose?

[VGThuy]

I really hope 2016 SA won’t end up being the highlight of Mariah’s career. But she needs much better programs. They’re one level above that Rachael Flatt baby video NBC kept showing.

 

[Willin]

Mirai's transitions are still embarrassingly nonexistent. Her arms just swing like it's a practice session before literally every jump. I found it was hilarious how the CBC commentators noted that Mirai credited Jeff Buttle with "teaching her to take moments to breathe." Well, yeah, when he choreographs whole sections with a whole lot of nothing into your program, you certainly have more time to breathe than a lot of other skaters.

A lot of people here criticize Adam and Ashley for having basic transitions - and that's a valid criticism - but during those basic transitions they at least look nice. Four nice crossovers with solid "pretty skater" arms (as I call them for my Basic Skills students) are much more pleasant to watch than a couple really lazy forward strokes (no extension to be seen, borderline toe pushing included), swinging arms, and lots of telegraphing before the jumps. It's most prominent before the 3A, but I saw it before the 3S, between the first two spins, and between bits of choreography before the 2A-2T-2Lo in the FS of NHK alone.

Again, I'm not saying this because I hate Mirai (I love her and I'm always amazed by her determination), but because she can do so much better than this.

 

[NAOTMAA]

Well if Carolina Kostner taught us anything is: "Transitions? Who the **** cares! Give me high marks anyway!" Of course Mirai isn't on Carolina's level so oh well. If she hadn't let the previous seasons go down the drain and acted the way she is now then too perhaps she too could have gotten the reputation points despite the "embarrassing nonexistent transitions" in her programs

Carolina also taught us: "all triples? difficult combos? who the **** cares! give me high marks anyway!" In this case I say the USFSA should just dump all the girls and get Michelle Kwan back

 

[VGThuy]

Michelle Kwan could teach a thing or two about carriage, holding an edge, and making positions and moves look like you’re witnessing the best thing in the world. I think the American women are really missing that swag to make people believe they deserve to be contenders for bigger things. They all look like challengers who are simply trying not to be forgotten with the way they’re all skating and presenting their elements and programs. Of course, if they had Kostner like skating skills and ability and confidence to not worry about underrotations and the privilege of knowing before they skate that they’ll get nice GOEs and PCS, then maybe they too could skate as brilliantly as Kostner...or be somewhat closer to it.

 

[NAOTMAA]

Well Frank Carroll did try to do all those things (carriage, hold the edge, etc.) with Gracie and Mirai but of course we all know how those partnerships ended

And Gracie did have Kostner like skating skills and the ability not to underroate as well as the ability to get nice GOEs and PCS (even with her numerous mistakes). It's wishful thinking knowing what the poor girl was going through behind the scenes but I wonder if Gracie had followed Carolina's example in the less difficult jump layout would she have been able to pull it off in competition and not destroy herself as she did. The judges clearly loved her so

 

[Willin]

I think Ashley has swag. Not the best skating skills, but definitely the swag. Although it wasn't present at her first GP this year, she tends to step onto the ice looking like she's going to nail it. I think that was the biggest change with Black Swan. After her name is announced, she flashes a smile, glances confidently at the crowd/judges, does the synchro intro (arms up and turn the torso to each side of the arena), a deep breath or two, and she is ready to go. She doesn't meander or take a big path, she just goes to her spot.

Then you have the other US ladies - wandering around or skating a wide circle around the starting spot with a focused or concerned look on their faces. Often, they stare down at the ice or look intensely at where they are about to do their starting pose. Some do it longer (Karen) than others (Courtney), but it still happens. Honestly, they look nervous.

OTOH, if you watch the Japanese ladies, they are often making last minute adjustments (practicing the jump arms or adjusting a costume), but they rarely seem to stare at their starting spot. If anything, they look focused on thinking through what they're about to do. The Russian Ladies either do that or seem to get on the ice casually, as if they're doing a quick run-through of getting on the ice for a competition. Either way, it seems to be that they are thinking about the program - not about the possibility they'll fail.

 

[skatfan]

Mirai's transitions are still embarrassingly nonexistent. Her arms just swing like it's a practice session before literally every jump. I found it was hilarious how the CBC commentators noted that Mirai credited Jeff Buttle with "teaching her to take moments to breathe." Well, yeah, when he choreographs whole sections with a whole lot of nothing into your program, you certainly have more time to breathe than a lot of other skaters.

I'd love to see Mirai work with the choreographer that Max Aaron is using (Emily Tuttle?) - she's local and would help Mirai focus on the whole performance. Tom Z apparently is only interested in getting her jumps ratified.

 

[Willin]

@skatfan Not only getting them ratified, but apparently getting her to do a quad, if her interview with CBC was any indication. Like I said with the 3A, difficulty is not her problem. She shouldn't be focusing on it when she's having trouble doing choreography and rotating the jumps she does have.

I think Tom Z is a great coach. His system works really well for a lot of skaters as far as conditioning goes. But he is wayyyyyy to focused on getting his skaters to up their jump content (Max Aaron is apparently gunning to be the first to land the 4A) as opposed to the other 50% of the score (spins, footwork, choreography, performance, etc.). I'll say it as many times as I think necessary - if he and Kori Ade got together as a coaching team, I think they would produce some darn good skaters.

 

[skatfan]

@skatfan Not only getting them ratified, but apparently getting her to do a quad, if her interview with CBC was any indication. Like I said with the 3A, difficulty is not her problem. She shouldn't be focusing on it when she's having trouble doing choreography and rotating the jumps she does have.

I think Tom Z is a great coach. His system works really well for a lot of skaters as far as conditioning goes. But he is wayyyyyy to focused on getting his skaters to up their jump content (Max Aaron is apparently gunning to be the first to land the 4A) as opposed to the other 50% of the score (spins, footwork, choreography, performance, etc.). I'll say it as many times as I think necessary - if he and Kori Ade got together as a coaching team, I think they would produce some darn good skaters.

LOL, yeah, Tom Z will never work with Kori directly - I'm sure there's a lot of ego there. It makes me angry that he's focusing on jumps they don't have instead of working on consistency of the ones they do have that make them competitive. I think Mirai could have a shot at winning another National title, but she won't unless she does actual choreography instead of walking through programs. Quad, scchmaud, she might get a pro career if she did more performing

 

[Willin]

@skatfan Seriously, it's the most frustrating thing to watch. Like, if skating was like the X games where the most difficult and innovative new thing won, Tom Z's strategy would be good. But this isn't the X games - you have to have that choreography and artistry to win. Maybe that's why Tom Z is (was?) the biggest proponent of the aerial challenge?

I have no idea why Tom Z hates Kori (from Kori's TSL interview, it sounds like the whole thing started with him and she's kinda over the anger and now is more ambivalent about it). It's a shame because if they didn't have that adversarial relationship they could do great things. That's why I'll say it a million times - I want it to happen and it makes sense that it should happen, but it won't.

 

[greenapple]

@skatfan so true! Focusing on jumps that are half there instead of perfecting the ones that are already there...such a travesty for the skater. SO easy to convince someone who wants to win that their way is the road to success. So far that has not proven to be true with Tom Z - and likely will not going forward. Mirai does not have the artistic power to pull it off when the jumps fail.

The aerial challenge steals hours from your life you will never get back. The concept of "a winning U.S. team" seems to have become a sideline in this equation.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

OTOH, if you watch the Japanese ladies, they are often making last minute adjustments (practicing the jump arms or adjusting a costume), but they rarely seem to stare at their starting spot. If anything, they look focused on thinking through what they're about to do.

This reminds me of how Kanako Murakami used to do a quirky chest / heart rub before every skate. Self - administered CPR, perhaps?

 

[Tavi]

I'd love to see Mirai work with the choreographer that Max Aaron is using (Emily Tuttle?) - she's local and would help Mirai focus on the whole performance. Tom Z apparently is only interested in getting her jumps ratified.

Max is working with Katherine Hill. She’s from the Chicago area, and I know she was at Kori’s rink in Monument a couple of years ago, but I don’t think she’s there now.

Several years ago, she and Jamie Whyte did a really nice series for TSL:

http://the-skating-lesson.com/the-deeper-edge/

 

[skatfan]

Max is working with Katherine Hill. She’s from the Chicago area, and I know she was at Kori’s rink in Monument a couple of years ago, but I don’t think she’s there now.

Several years ago, she and Jamie Whyte did a really nice series for TSL:

http://the-skating-lesson.com/the-deeper-edge/

Ah thanks for the right name! I knew it was someone who'd been on TSL.

 

[Jammers]

@skatfan Not only getting them ratified, but apparently getting her to do a quad, if her interview with CBC was any indication. Like I said with the 3A, difficulty is not her problem. She shouldn't be focusing on it when she's having trouble doing choreography and rotating the jumps she does have.

I think Tom Z is a great coach. His system works really well for a lot of skaters as far as conditioning goes. But he is wayyyyyy to focused on getting his skaters to up their jump content (Max Aaron is apparently gunning to be the first to land the 4A) as opposed to the other 50% of the score (spins, footwork, choreography, performance, etc.). I'll say it as many times as I think necessary - if he and Kori Ade got together as a coaching team, I think they would produce some darn good skaters.

Agreed. Tom Z skaters are almost always good jumpers but the skating skills and speed and choro is always subpar. I've always said i could tell a Tom Z skater just by how slow they were and the terrible programs.

 

[aftershocks]

Ah thanks for the right name! I knew it was someone who'd been on TSL.

Here's more on Katherine Hill:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbOWW_R6pck YAS challenge from 2012
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hISZrruEFU Her coaching & choreographing philosophy: "I just want kids to have fun; experiment... Skating has the potential to make us hold the audience captive"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09py2l21PLA Interview with Katherine regarding her specialty as a 'creative movement specialist'

Don't know if this was posted yet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN_NX7wCXEI
Mirai's 23 Questions with her doggies, Lincoln, Liberty, and Lexi! Such huggable, trainable furry companions. Liberty Mirai said is their guard dog, and he sure loves to growl. I guess he was keeping his eye on the camera crew.

 

[Jun Y]

Coming up this week is the 3 Sectionals. The most competitive segment is probably senior ladies. Some speculation about potential qualifiers based on the current rosters compiled by Sylvia:

Eastern: Chiera, Ma, Serafini, ??
Midwestern: Lin, McIsaac, Miller, Rydberg
Pacific: Andrews, Hong, Le, Nguyen

 

[maureenfarone]

Coming up this week is the 3 Sectionals. The most competitive segment is probably senior ladies. Some speculation about potential qualifiers based on the current rosters compiled by Sylvia:

Eastern: Chiera, Ma, Serafini, ??
Midwestern: Lin, McIsaac, Miller, Rydberg
Pacific: Andrews, Hong, Le, Nguyen

I'd love to see Emily Chan qualify in Mids. Love her beautiful presentation.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Polina Edmonds is still listed on the French GP. Is she really going?

 

[Willin]

@AxelAnnie Yes. Or at least all social media is pointing to yes. USFSA certainly thinks she's going and that she's still a contender. I don't know why, but they do. Maybe she's made a miraculous improvement in the last month? Idk. I'm excited to see if it's a trainwreck or a massive success, although I'm leaning towards the former.

 

[VGThuy]

I mean, the worst she can place is 12th, which isn't so far from 9th and 10th from some of the other American ladies. Even if her score is embarrassingly low, might as well take advantage of an international competition and travel, and hope you can show something better by January.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

@AxelAnnie Yes. Or at least all social media is pointing to yes. USFSA certainly thinks she's going and that she's still a contender. I don't know why, but they do. Maybe she's made a miraculous improvement in the last month? Idk. I'm excited to see if it's a trainwreck or a massive success, although I'm leaning towards the former.

Irrespective of how well she does in competition, since the event is in Paris, there will be so many boutique shopping opportunities awaiting Polina, I'm sure. Of course she'd want to be there.

 

[Coco]

I keep thinking back to that time that Kimmie Meissner wasn't allowed to go to a Grand Prix event because ... who knows why... I never got the full story but Richard Callahan seem to think she could be competitive with the jumps that she had, even though she didn't have a triple Lutz or flip, I believe, at the time.

And now, we've yet to see anybody be withdrawn from an assignment if they had it coming to them based on past achievements.

 

[Vagabond]

Irrespective of how well she does in competition, since the event is in Paris, there will be so many boutique shopping opportunities awaiting Polina, I'm sure. Of course she'd want to be there.

The competition is in Grenoble. C'est la vie!

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

The competition is in Grenoble. C'est la vie!

Holy Merde! Polina can stock up on bottles of Chartreuse instead.

 

[Vagabond]

Holy Merde! Polina can stock up on bottles of Chartreuse instead.

Not even that. She's too young to bring alcoholic beverages back into the United States.

 

[vesperholly]

I keep thinking back to that time that Kimmie Meissner wasn't allowed to go to a Grand Prix event because ... who knows why... I never got the full story but Richard Callahan seem to think she could be competitive with the jumps that she had, even though she didn't have a triple Lutz or flip, I believe, at the time.

Was that after she was injured? Meissner had all her triples from when she was competing on the JGP.

 

[NAOTMAA]

Has reigning national champ, and fourth at last year's worlds, Karen Chen fallen off the face of the planet

As for Polina at TB, she simply needs to show that she's on the upswing and is doing better then she did at her last outing. She needs to keep showing improvements. If she can then focus on nationals, skate great there and place top 3 I don't see why she should be counted out. Mirai is still a wild toss up and Karen is currently treading downwards (SA will be VERY crucial for her)

 

[Vagabond]

Polina Edmunds

 

[skatfan]

Polina Edmunds

I keep thinking Polina wants to go out skating at nationals in her home area.