U.S. Ladies [#20]: In a Week, Maybe Two, They'll Make You a Star

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

The Olympics have a way of doing that for certain skaters. Sarah Hughes, Paul Wylie, and Adelina Sotnikova are three other obvious examples.

Ross Miner might be one too, if given the chance.

hmmmmm....... yeah,.... but..... Sarah, Paul and Adelina all had several (a lot) of ISU medals and achievements prior to being named to their Oly squads. Also prior to making their squads the last time these skaters had been on their Nationals podium was WAY more recent than Ross. Meaning in their Oly years they just didn't pop on their Nats podium after a 5 year absence.

I still am baffled why some people are amazed that he isn't on the Oly Team... what has he done?????

Honestly, even if he became Nats champion last week I still wouldn't have expected him to be on the team... Same thing if it was my Goddess Angela. If she was skating and got a Nats medal but hadn't done anything on the international scene in years I wouldn't expect my Goddess to be on The Oly Team.

 

[Vagabond]

I still am baffled why some people are amazed that he isn't on the Oly Team

I don't think many people aren't baffled why he isn't on the Olympic Team. They are baffled by (1) why the USFSA uses screwy selection criteria and (2) why Jason Brown is the fist alternate and Ross Miner is the second alternate.

what has he done?????

He's done this and this. That's what.

 

[Yazmeen]

Not to turn the ladies thread into another long discussion about Ross, but I think it also has to do with him taking the silver instead of the bronze. I think some are finding it very shocking to leave the second place finisher off, along with the alternate issue. But the simple fact is they applied the criteria throughout, including the team selection and the alternates. And they applied it to Ashley, too, and she didn't come out on top this time.

 

[Vagabond]

Not to turn the ladies thread into another long discussion about Ross

Ross Miner is FSU's new Michelle Kwan! All threads eventually turn to their inevitable subject.

 

[Willin]

Eh, IJS was introduced the year that Mirai was a 10-year-old in Juvenile (and it was in the works for several years prior). I don't recall when they implemented it for the lower levels, but it was in place by the time she was a Novice in 05-06.

I think it's just poor technique. She's almost always a little tipped in the air, so her foot isn't 90 degrees to the ice. It makes that hooked landing much more likely.

Yeah, it was put in place when Mirai was a novice, after she pretty much had all her triples...so I stand by my point.

I'm with Maximillian on this one. Jump technique isn't something you magically learn when you learn triples. It develops starting with the half jumps and the single jumps. Yes, you do need to learn some tweaks to the technique for higher levels of rotation, but ultimately it's hard to fix those basics of technique that you learned when you started - and she learned all her singles under 6.0. And she would've learned her triples as well before IJS was implemented at her level. Even though she's fixed her technique to the point that she can easily do clean triples in practice, in competition a lot of skaters revert to bad habits due to the competition environment.

Even then, at the beginning of the system I'm sure some coaches weren't exactly sure what constituted a UR. Yes, it was clearly stated in the rulebook, but even now that rule is still not uniformly applied across every competition by every caller. Imagine in the early days at the lower levels when you had fresh technical specialists just learning to apply it in club/regional/sectional competitions and likely at Nationals as well. I remember the local club competitions in my area would often do a modified version of it because they couldn't bring in enough trained judges and equipment! Heck, most local competitions I helped with or watched didn't even have video replay to check for URs - it was all done in real time and then hand calculated in (due to the shortage of computers with IJS software). I'd imagine because of that it was hard to get good feedback on URs until you got to qualifying season, and by then it was probably too late.

 

[Vagabond]

And she would've learned her triples as well before IJS was implemented at her level. Even though she's fixed her technique to the point that she can easily do clean triples in practice, in competition a

Almost all of her triples.

 

[Dobre]

I don't think many people aren't baffled why he isn't on the Olympic Team. They are baffled by (1) why the USFSA uses screwy selection criteria.

OK, I don't see anything screwy about the selection criteria. I would prefer a straightforward head-to-head competition when the pressure is on. But the selection criteria is weighted toward important events (Worlds) & recent events (this year's Nationals and this year's GPF). It also includes enough events that it doesn't ignore juniors, doesn't allow wild fluctuations in scoring to outweigh the majority of competitions, and doesn't ignore scores.

While I totally get the argument that USFSA could share the wealth considering Ross's high finish at Nationals, Jason wins every bullet point of the criteria against Ross except the placement at Nationals. He actually wins all but two bullet points relative to Adam. So the reasoning behind the alternate selection is clear. (Even if one would prefer a straightforward head-to-head at Nationals, which I would).

Meanwhile, I rather enjoyed the ladies event at Nationals. I'm still astonished that both my favorites--Mirai & Karen--skated well enough to make the team under Olympic qualification pressure. Especially was worried after Karen popped two of her jumps during the SP warm-up. But yay!

 

[toddlj]

Just now from twitter:

The Inside Edge‏ @SarahandDrew
Ross Miner and Ashley Wagner have withdrawn from 4CC; replaced by Hochstein and Wang. Starr Andrews WD from Jr Worlds, replaced by Emmy Ma.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Just now from twitter:

The Inside Edge‏ @SarahandDrew
Ross Miner and Ashley Wagner have withdrawn from 4CC; replaced by Hochstein and Wang. Starr Andrews WD from Jr Worlds, replaced by Emmy Ma.

Wow.... really???

and why did Starr withdraw?

 

[toddlj]

and why did Starr withdraw?

I wonder if she wants to focus on Senior only (and not prepare a revised SP.)

 

[LarrySK8]

Why on Earth would Ross or Ashley do this other than to set themselves up to announce a retirement?

True competitors would accept and go represent their country (if healthy). This does not support the notion that either Ross or Ashley are really competitors for their country (as opposed to just themselves).

 

[Wyliefan]

That's what I'm afraid of.

 

[toddlj]

Why on Earth would Ross or Ashley do this other than to set themselves up to announce a retirement?

Perhaps Ashley is focusing on her alternate slot for OLY/Worlds. Maybe upgrading LLL?

 

[LarrySK8]

Perhaps Ashley is focusing on her alternate slot for OLY/Worlds. Maybe upgrading LLL?

Viable possibility - and is she hoping someone on the team will not be able to go? Does she have the Giloolly mentality (J/K!)? If she is upping the ante for the LLL program, 4CC would be a good test. It is already in Asia and if she is needed, she can be in PC.

 

[Wyliefan]

Perhaps Ashley is focusing on her alternate slot for OLY/Worlds. Maybe upgrading LLL?

I would like to think so. But does she ruin any chance of getting Worlds if she doesn't do 4CC?

 

[vesperholly]

I would like to think so. But does she ruin any chance of getting Worlds if she doesn't do 4CC?

If someone withdraws from Worlds, she's the first alternate. I don't think there's so much bad blood between USFS and Ashley that they would skip over her. Retaining 3 spots for 2019 is really important too.

 

[StitchMonkey]

I wonder if she wants to focus on Senior only (and not prepare a revised SP.)

Remember that the lutz is required for juniors in the short. And lutz was never a great jump for Starr even before injury. She likely will do better at 4CC where she can do her 3lo in the short and that could set her up better for next season better than an E in the short at junior worlds.

 

[olympic]

I don't think many people aren't baffled why he isn't on the Olympic Team. They are baffled by (1) why the USFSA uses screwy selection criteria and (2) why Jason Brown is the fist alternate and Ross Miner is the second alternate.

He's done this and this. That's what.

I personally don’t find the criteria screwy. But I would put the GP series as tier 1 criteria and lower the importance of last year’s Worlds

 

[TalentedButHumble]

But politiks aside, it wouldve been smarter for AW to have another performance under her belt for herself.

Yeah, I dont know whats going on. But I think she might just be chucking the whole thing.

 

[StitchMonkey]

But politiks aside, it wouldve been smarter for AW to have another performance under her belt for herself.

Yeah, I dont know whats going on. But I think she might just be chucking the whole thing.

She may have gotten an offer outside of figure skating and figured she needed to take it while she had the chance. I would not fault her for striking while the iron is still hot post skating career wise.

 

[GreatLakesGal]

But politiks aside, it wouldve been smarter for AW to have another performance under her belt for herself.

I think it would only be a smart move to go if she believed she could do well there. But she knows now that she can't count on the international judges to hold her up with inflated PCS.

 

[Carolla5501]

So does Starr now go to 4CC? If so I can see why she would pull out of Junior Worlds. Pick one program and stick with it (words a lot of skaters need to learn imho)

 

[Frida80]

So does Starr now go to 4CC? If so I can see why she would pull out of Junior Worlds. Pick one program and stick with it (words a lot of skaters need to learn imho)

Wow... so much shade in this comment.

Yes. Starr is doing 4CC and most likely using her National layout. It's easier to max out her placement.

 

[aml78]

She may have gotten an offer outside of figure skating and figured she needed to take it while she had the chance. I would not fault her for striking while the iron is still hot post skating career wise.

Couldn’t agree more. She’s older and this is her primary source of income. She needs to do what she needs to do and we shouldn’t judge her for it.

 

[analia]

I thought Tessa Hong placed higher than Emmy Ma at Nationals. Why do they keep skipping her over?

 

[her grace]

I thought Tessa Hong placed higher than Emmy Ma at Nationals. Why do they keep skipping her over?

Well, then I'm sure Ma will turn the assignment down since she's coached by Mark Mitchell. But seriously, it's BOW all over again. JGP medal and SB #45 score trumps Hong's lackluster international season. Ma tanked at nationals (Hong beat her by 18 points at nationals) and also blew her SP at JGP Poland and Golden Spin. She will probably still make the LP at junior worlds even if she has a mistake in the SP on the strength of her PCS, but for America's potential jr. world and JGP spots. Andrews was the only one on the team who was consistently stable in the SP in competition.

Remember that the lutz is required for juniors in the short. And lutz was never a great jump for Starr even before injury. She likely will do better at 4CC where she can do her 3lo in the short and that could set her up better for next season better than an E in the short at junior worlds.

But the U.S. needs her at junior worlds!

 

[jiejie]

I thought Tessa Hong placed higher than Emmy Ma at Nationals. Why do they keep skipping her over?

The alternates to Jr Worlds (Hanna Harrell, Tessa Hong, Emmy Ma) were not given any order of precedence, which is a switch from what USFS has done in the past few years.

I think that Starr is probably strategically correct that she stands to put herself and her senior career on a more solid footing by focusing on 4CC and skipping further junior competition (also as pointed out above, her lutz is not her money jump and she'd have to alter her FS.)

I don't hold out a lot of hope that the US ladies will be able to grab back a full slate of JGP slots and 3 Jr Worlds slots for next year, but it is possible if Ting and Emmy can put out the best they're capable of.

 

[giselle23]

hmmmmm....... yeah,.... but..... Sarah, Paul and Adelina all had several (a lot) of ISU medals and achievements prior to being named to their Oly squads. Also prior to making their squads the last time these skaters had been on their Nationals podium was WAY more recent than Ross. Meaning in their Oly years they just didn't pop on their Nats podium after a 5 year absence.

I still am baffled why some people are amazed that he isn't on the Oly Team... what has he done?????

Honestly, even if he became Nats champion last week I still wouldn't have expected him to be on the team... Same thing if it was my Goddess Angela. If she was skating and got a Nats medal but hadn't done anything on the international scene in years I wouldn't expect my Goddess to be on The Oly Team.

Ross has been on the World team before, so he must have done something to get selected. The US men, except for Nathan, are not going to win individual medals at the Olympics. If they had to have Adam on the team, then they should have bumped Vincent.

 

[Wyliefan]

I think it would only be a smart move to go if she believed she could do well there. But she knows now that she can't count on the international judges to hold her up with inflated PCS.

She doesn't know that, actually. There weren't any international judges at Nationals.

 

[analia]

Well...how funny and ridiculous that even WJC selection considers "body of work"...