U.S. Ice Dance 2022-23 news & updates

[BlueRidge]

Thank god Delobel/Schoenfelder won 2008 Worlds...

I'm still curious about what you see as really good and interesting ice dance.

 

[layman]

Just going back to the 90s, I think about some of my favorite Free Dances and they're definitely NOT ballroom - Klimova & Ponomarenko's Air FD, Grishuk & Platov's Arabian FD and Memorial FD, Annisina & Peizerat's Romeo & Juliet FD.

Even in the early 90s, there were free dances that were more ballet, more modern dance, than ballroom - Usova & Zhulin's Statues FD, the Duschesnays' Missing FDs. The whole 91 Words podium featured free dances that were not at all ballroom!

The idea the Ice Dance should be "ballroom on ice" has been outdated for decade

If it's not Ballroom dancing on ice then it's just Pairs skating (without the throws and overhead lifts).

 

[litenkyckling]

If it's not Ballroom dancing on ice then it's just Pairs skating (without the throws and overhead lifts).

that’s just your opinion, as we’ve already established. If that’s the case then ice dance hasn’t really existed for over a decade.

 

[AYS]

I know we should be in the Dance Hall thread (apologies to @Sylvia ) but this is the only remotely recent waltz FD I can think of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kmLKQj6wkY It was great.

Were there others?

Apologies for contributing to the thread drift, but remembering this one from the young but already sublime V/M is fully worth it:

Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir Free Dance at the 2007 World Championships | Valse Triste

Canadian ice dancers Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir skate to Valse Triste (from Kuolema, Op. 44) at the 2007 World Championships in Tokyo. The pair would finish...

www.youtube.com

 

[layman]

that’s just your opinion, as we’ve already established. If that’s the case then ice dance hasn’t really existed for over a decade.

You may have a point...but not the one you intended. The ISU has been removing the Ballroom dancing components of Ice Dance (one by one) for the past decade. The removal of the pattern dance from the SD was just the latest step in the ISU's effort to transform Ice Dancing into Pairs Skating.

The two disciplines are now so similar, that there's no longer any need to keep them separate.

 

[litenkyckling]

You may have a point...but not the one you intended. The ISU has been removing the Ballroom dancing components of Ice Dance (one by one) for the past decade. The removal of the pattern dance from the SD was just the latest step in the ISU's effort to transform Ice Dancing into Pairs Skating.

The two disciplines are now so similar, that there's no longer any need to keep them separate.

This reads like you’ve never watched pairs skating ever. Dance is more than ballroom and always has been.

 

[On My Own]

I'm still curious about what you see as really good and interesting ice dance.

Actually I did like @thvu's post indicating some of my favorites, too. My favorite pieces of art when it comes to western dance are largely contemporary ballet and modern (and related off-shoots), with some side of lyrical depending on the program, which is what I prefer to see in ice dance, too.

 

[morqet]

I know we should be in the Dance Hall thread (apologies to @Sylvia ) but this is the only remotely recent waltz FD I can think of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kmLKQj6wkY It was great.

Were there others?

The Shibs Strauss FD in 2014/15. And I/K's Swan Lake had a good chunk using the Act 1 waltz.

I'd just like more different rhythms. Waltzes, marches, latin medleys, swing or blues, hell even more tangos. Maybe its recall bias, but I feel that at worlds 10 years ago, the top 15 teams would be trying a greater variety of things than we are getting today.

 

[BlueRidge]

The Shibs Strauss FD in 2014/15.

How on earth do I have no memory of this? I was at 2015 Nationals.

I'd just like more different rhythms. Waltzes, marches, latin medleys, swing or blues, hell even more tangos. Maybe its recall bias, but I feel that at worlds 10 years ago, the top 15 teams would be trying a greater variety of things than we are getting today.

Yes to variety, that's totally what I like to see.

 

[Karen-W]

The Shibs Strauss FD in 2014/15. And I/K's Swan Lake had a good chunk using the Act 1 waltz.

I'd just like more different rhythms. Waltzes, marches, latin medleys, swing or blues, hell even more tangos. Maybe its recall bias, but I feel that at worlds 10 years ago, the top 15 teams would be trying a greater variety of things than we are getting today.

On the junior side, Lim/Quan's "Dance Macabre" FD this season is fantastic, if you're looking for a good waltz; and Grimm/Savitskiy have a wonderful FD to selections from "The Nutcracker." And then there's Kudryavtseva/Karankevich's absolutely batty '90s inspired FD, which is certainly not lyrical/contemporary dance, but is most definitely dance, lol.

 

[morqet]

How on earth do I have no memory of this? I was at 2015 Nationals.

In fairness, it was not their finest work!

 

[VGThuy]

How on earth do I have no memory of this? I was at 2015 Nationals.

Yes to variety, that's totally what I like to see.

In fairness, it was not their finest work!

When the Shibs started that season, with a highish score and a victory for them at Nepela, their Waltz FD seemed much more traditional, with (what I thought) were interesting and new complexities (for them) with more closed holds and face-to-face skating.

Then by Nationals and Worlds, after a huge loss to Chock/Bates at Skate America, a loss to then "new" Papadakis/Cizeron in their second year as seniors (before they became THE Papdakis/Cizeron) at Cup of China, and a sixth place in the FD (4th overall) showing at the GPF despite scoring well at the Austrian Challenger right before the GPF, they re-did the choreography (and costumes) to make it look "lighter" and more like a Zueva program with more distant hand-to-hand holds and steamlined IJS step sequences and more "Meryl/Charlie" ta-da movement throughout.

Compare and contrast:

Nepela

Maia SHIBUTANI / Alex SHIBUTANI 2014 Ondrej Nepela Trophy FD

youtu.be

Worlds

2015 Worlds Dance FD Maia Shibutani & Alex Shibutani Rosen aus dem Süden, The Blue Danube

youtu.be

ETA:

Just going back to the 90s, I think about some of my favorite Free Dances and they're definitely NOT ballroom - Klimova & Ponomarenko's Air FD, Grishuk & Platov's Arabian FD and Memorial FD, Annisina & Peizerat's Romeo & Juliet FD.

Even in the early 90s, there were free dances that were more ballet, more modern dance, than ballroom - Usova & Zhulin's Statues FD, the Duschesnays' Missing FDs. The whole 91 Words podium featured free dances that were not at all ballroom!

The idea the Ice Dance should be "ballroom on ice" has been outdated for decades.

I know I must have said this a million times by now, but I actually prefer Klimova/Ponomarenko's more traditional, fast step, more dancey FDs. What they were able to do with the blades in terms of steps throughout the program and how they change from one close hold to another so effortlessly and yet were also in sync was awe-inspiring for me to see. But I get why they had to make a change with both the Duchesnays and Usova/Zhulin having the fans and the judges' favor by the end of the 1990-1991 season (starting with their FD loss at 1990 Worlds!). To think of it, they only won one FD from 1984-1991 (though they were super close in 1986...one judge away), so yeah, I guess they had to make a change.

Also, I actually put G/P's "The Feeling Begins" dance sort of close to "ballroom" in that "orientalist" (what a term!) "Arabian" dance is kind of a genre onto itself when it comes to "dance" programs having their "formulas" in a way you get with other "rhythmic" dance genres you can do on the dance floor. That said, there were lots of moments of more "character-driven" interpretation going on thanks to Tarasova's sensibilities (away from Linichuck's) which was in full swing by the time "Memorial" happened).

 

[On My Own]

When the Shibs started that season, with a highish score and a victory for them at Nepela, their Waltz FD seemed much more traditional, with (what I thought) were interesting and new complexities (for them) with more closed holds and face-to-face skating. They also had three

Then by Nationals and Worlds, after a huge loss to Chock/Bates at Skate America, a loss to then "new" Papadakis/Cizeron in their second year as seniors (before they became THE Papdakis/Cizeron) at Cup of China, and a sixth place in the FD (4th overall) showing at the GPF despite scoring well at the Austrian Challenger right before the GPF, they re-did the choreography (and costumes) to make it look "lighter" and more like a Zueva program with more distant hand-to-hand holds and steamlined IJS step sequences and more "Meryl/Charlie" ta-da movement throughout.

Compare and contrast:

Nepela

Maia SHIBUTANI / Alex SHIBUTANI 2014 Ondrej Nepela Trophy FD

youtu.be

Worlds

2015 Worlds Dance FD Maia Shibutani & Alex Shibutani Rosen aus dem Süden, The Blue Danube

youtu.be

I do admire sane stans.

 

[just tuned in]

You may have a point...but not the one you intended. The ISU has been removing the Ballroom dancing components of Ice Dance (one by one) for the past decade. The removal of the pattern dance from the SD was just the latest step in the ISU's effort to transform Ice Dancing into Pairs Skating.

The two disciplines are now so similar, that there's no longer any need to keep them separate.

I have to agree a little bit. Ice dance is becoming more and more acrobatic.

 

[sap5]

Who is coaching Isabella Flores and partner right now?

 

[AYS]

Who is coaching Isabella Flores and partner right now?

Logan Giulietti-Schmitt was with them at Challenge Cup.

 

[BlueRidge]

I have to agree a little bit. Ice dance is becoming more and more acrobatic.

I think this is a different thing than whether its ballroom enough. I definitely don't like the trend towards more difficult and higher lifts and more acrobatic moves. That takes away from the dance aspect.

Its also unnecessarily more dangerous for the woman due to the possibility of head injuries. As we know more and more about how serious concussions are I think the sport should be dialing back dangerous moves which aren't really dance anyway.

 

[VGThuy]

I know we should be in the Dance Hall thread (apologies to @Sylvia ) but this is the only remotely recent waltz FD I can think of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kmLKQj6wkY It was great.

Were there others?

This reminds me of how much I preferred pre-Linichuk Domnina/Shabalin.

 

[sap5]

For me, what makes ice dance not pairs is the the way dancers interpret the music -- nuances, rhythm changes, emotions -- through their skating. These days, I see many ice dancers skating through the music, and then leaving music interpretation for their choreographic steps, which are done when they are essentially stationary.

One of my favorite RDs this year is by Hensen/Lickers, because of the way I can see their skating change when the music changes.

https://twitter.com/stormsalysa/status/1554900346446774272

 

[emilieh]

Logan Giulietti-Schmitt was with them at Challenge Cup.

Elena Dostatni also coaches Flores & Desyatov.

 

[VGThuy]

Elena Dostatni also coaches Flores & Desyatov.

That name! I had to google her and confirmed my suspicions that she was related to the infamous Dostatni! (They're married!)

 

[On My Own]

Also, I actually put G/P's "The Feeling Begins" dance sort of close to "ballroom" in that "orientalist" (what a term!) "Arabian" dance is kind of a genre onto itself when it comes to "dance" programs having their "formulas" in a way you get with other "rhythmic" dance genres you can do on the dance floor. That said, there were lots of moments of more "character-driven" interpretation going on thanks to Tarasova's sensibilities (away from Linichuck's) which was in full swing by the time "Memorial" happened).

I think it can be said to be an interpretation of Scheherazade-type ballet on ice. Scheherazade was positively modern for its time, as cringe as it might appear due to the story-telling and movement now lol.

 

[VGThuy]

I think it can be said to be an interpretation of Scheherazade-type ballet on ice. Scheherazade was positively modern for its time, as cringe as it might appear due to the story-telling and movement now lol.

Remember when Blumberg/Seibert got marked off for using Schez for the 1983-84 season, and the Italian judge at the Olympics said they weren’t skating to “dance” music? When asked about Torvill/Dean and Bolero, he just said something about how they were T/D and were allowed to do anything.

We’ve come a long way. I like to think Davis/White winning the Olympics while skating to Schez was sort of “America’s revenge” for 1984 thirty years later.

 

[On My Own]

Remember when Blumberg/Seibert got marked off for using Schez for the 1983-84 season, and the Italian judge at the Olympics said they weren’t skating to “dance” music? When asked about Torvill/Dean and Bolero, he just said something about how they were T/D and were allowed to do anything.

Wow really? Well I can't remember it because I wasn't born (I was on earth only some 11+/-2 years later ), but it's good to know ice dance has always been strange about... dance.

 

[layman]

Remember when Blumberg/Seibert got marked off for using Schez for the 1983-84 season, and the Italian judge at the Olympics said they weren’t skating to “dance” music? When asked about Torvill/Dean and Bolero, he just said something about how they were T/D and were allowed to do anything.

We’ve come a long way. I like to think Davis/White winning the Olympics while skating to Schez was sort of “America’s revenge” for 1984 thirty years later.

A "Bolero" though is a Spanish Dance form with a distinctive rhythm (used in the music by the same name written by Ravel), so Torvill/Dean were within the rules.

Bolero

1 : a Spanish dance characterized by sharp turns, stamping of the feet, and sudden pauses in a position with one arm arched over the head also : music in ³/₄ time for a bolero. 2 : a loose waist-length jacket open at the front.

 

[VGThuy]

A "Bolero" though is a Spanish Dance form with a distinctive rhythm (used in the music by the same name written by Ravel), so Torvill/Dean were within the rules.

Bolero

1 : a Spanish dance characterized by sharp turns, stamping of the feet, and sudden pauses in a position with one arm arched over the head also : music in ³/₄ time for a bolero. 2 : a loose waist-length jacket open at the front.

Right, but Torvill/Dean we’re not dancing a bolero, at least in a traditional or ballroom sense. The choreography was not “ballroom”. That dance was considering shocking and pushing the sport of ice dance for a reason. In fact, I believe it was one of the major Russian coaches (Tchaikovskaya or Tarasova maybe) pointed out all the rules T/D were “breaking” when they debuted it.

 

[layman]

Right, but Torvill/Dean we’re not dancing a bolero, at least in a traditional or ballroom sense. The choreography was not “ballroom”. That dance was considering shocking and pushing the sport of ice dance for a reason. In fact, I believe it was one of the major Russian coaches (Tchaikovskaya or Tarasova maybe) pointed out all the rules T/D were “breaking” when they debuted it.

Even though Torvill/Dean's FD (choreography) was not a traditional Bolero, the music (written by Ravel) was still "Bolero" music (with the 3/4 time rhythm), so Torvill/Dean were within the rules for their music choice.

 

[VGThuy]

Even though Torvill/Dean's FD (choreography) was not a traditional Bolero, the music (written by Ravel) was still "Bolero" music (with the 3/4 time rhythm), so Torvill/Dean were within the rules for their music choice.

Despite my original quote, it wasn’t just the choice of music that was the issue but the dance itself that was the critique. But the Italian judge could have brought that up but of course, what the interviewer obviously meant was that T/D were also not doing a traditional ballroom dance but something closer to interpretive one.

Anyway, Ravel’s “Boléro” isn’t a typical bolero looking at the history of its composition and it’s composition, but there is a rhythm and form inspired by the traditional bolero.

 

[Sylvia]

August 10:

Romy Malcolm/Noah Lafornara have been added to ISP.
With a score of 126.11, they placed second in junior dance at Silicon Valley Open a few days ago.

Romy Malcolm & Noah Lafornara are ranked #9 of 16 in the NQS Junior Dance standings and made their JGP debut at Solidarity Cup (9th) but are no longer listed in the ISP and she has an IPS profile as of 10/16 - I first posted the news in the Dance Hall thread since she is Canadian-born and seems to be in Barrie now: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...a-samba-2022-2023.109753/page-17#post-6311942

 

[Sylvia]

FLORES & DESYATOV: OUR GOAL IS TO BREAK BARRIERS by @azcalder (Oct. 17): https://www.ice-dance.com/site/flores-desyatov-our-goal-is-to-break-barriers/

"Vanya, what has it been like moving to a new country with a new language and lots of strangers?"

“The country and language are not so important to me. You can quickly adapt to it and learn. I am lucky in that several people in our skating school speak Russian, including a few of our coaches. The most difficult thing for me was to leave all of my family and friends.” [This includes an older brother. His parents passed away when he was a young teenager.]

"Bella, you have had a difficult year. How has ice dance helped you through all the emotion?"

“At the beginning of the year, I didn’t know if I had a future in ice dance. My heart was broken and days were tough, but I continued to show up even when I didn’t feel like getting to the rink that day. I had to fight the growing urge to quit this sport that I love so much. I had no idea where to begin if I were to continue my career as a figure skater. Now that I am on the other side, I’m so grateful that I didn’t give into self-doubt, and beyond that, I am so grateful to all the people who treated me with kindness when I needed it most. I hope the community around me continues to follow my journey.”