U.S. Ice Dance 2019-20 season news & updates

Debbie S

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C/P would likely have beaten H/B at Nebelhorn if Anthony hadn't missed the first twizzle. I'm sure H/B will improve as the season goes on but so will other teams. The fact that a World level judging panel placed C/P ahead of H/B in the RD by over a point doesn't bode well for H/B this season.

At the end of last season, I was thinking M/C might pass H/B this year but M/C don't have quite the same level of material they had last year.
 

jlai

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C/P can do it this year but they have to stop missing points in the fd. Overall the rest of the world is catching up on tes and American ice dancers need to get better on their levels. This season you have to be high 70s to stay top ten after Rd at world's I bet
 
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Dobre

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I think we have a long way to go before January;).

The fact that a World level judging panel placed C/P ahead of H/B in the RD by over a point doesn't bode well for H/B this season.

The Parsons and McNamara & Carpenter both had higher RD scores than Hawayek & Baker early in the season during the past two seasons respectively. The only difference is that they were not assigned to the same events early in the season. H&B always struggle with the levels on the pattern. It is an Achilles Heel, and it is a real problem, IMO. Because the PCS isn't going to hold them above the young teams forever. But this was a debut program, and I honestly don't know why H&B decided to do this at Nebelhorn, when they could have gone to Chicago or Autumn Classic first, but whatever.


*The McNamara & Carpenter fan in me needs to point out that M&C defeated C&P in the RD this summer.
 

aftershocks

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I'm anxious to see Hawayek/Baker's debut at Nebelhorn. I suspect the battle for the bronze at US nationals could be a turning point. H/B need to put some distance between themselves and the young teams nipping at their heels.

Just noticed that Carreira/Ponomarenko are listed for Nebelhorn too. Can't wait to see how this head to head turns out.

In my very humble opinion, neither C/P not M/C can catch H/B this year. That FD is brilliant, funny and really well-suited to Kaitlin and Jean-Luc.

As much as I enjoy Hawayek/Baker and dislike all the critiques regarding their heights, I found the height issue distracting in their new RD. I didn't particularly care for their costumes or the concept for them either. They are obviously excellent skaters and Jean Luc has some of the best blade skills in the world. I just don't like Saturday Night Fever for them, as it's been crafted in this program. The concept and music are rather overused by this point anyway. Despite H/B being gung-ho about getting into it, the program didn't seem like a great fit for them. What was with Kaitlin wearing a teased ponytail on top of her head though? I don't care if it was supposed to highlight theme & character. It only serves to call more attention to a height issue. Of course, they skated well but clearly this RD did not win against programs with better concept and fit by other teams, including Gadbois teams (F-B/S, Smart/Diaz, and I also enjoyed Fear/Gibson's RD better than H/B's). I think H/B and coaches could have come up with something better, because it looks like they weren't very inspired with this choice.

What about something like Cabaret, or Slaughter on 10th Avenue with Vera-Ellen & Gene Kelly? Those show concepts I think might work better for H/B. Even something like the Gwen Verdon/Bob Fosse number in Damn Yankees. Perhaps A Chorus Line, or Beautiful: The Carole King Musical. I mean think outside the box and do some research, rather than settling for the same old tired retreads. Even Chicago, which has been done before by singles skaters might look better on H/B than what they've ended up with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaAiKkmjp3c

Dated, but also Vincente Minnelli's Meet Me in St. Louis with Judy Garland:

Minnelli also directed Judy Garland and Robert Walker in a 1945 b&w romantic war-era film that is not a musical, but it is paced and directed like a musical. It's one of my favorite old movies. I was surprised to find it available online:

At least change Kaitlin's sp hairstyle and rethink the costumes too! :drama: Although the tango fd is good, it reminds me of what the Gadbois team did to greater effect for Fournier-Beaudry/Sorensen last season. H/B can handle the tango of course, but it just doesn't engage my attention. I hope they come up with something better for themselves next year and going into the Olympic season. I know trying to be creative every year isn't easy, but better realized ideas make a bigger impact. There's this tendency with music and concept selection to rely on tried and true but now's the time to experiment with more unique concepts.

ETA:
Other options, not necessarily unique, but might have worked better: Dirty Dancing; Footloose; An American in Paris; Rent; On the Town; Gigi; Bye Bye Birdie; Swing Time (the Fred Astaire & Ginger Rogers classic)...
 
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layman

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435
This weekend provided an interesting contrast in styles. I really liked Hawayek/Baker's Rhythm Dance and they really seemed to get into it too. They seemed as surprised as I was at the low score but it looks like they missed some levels.

Both Hawayek/Baker and Carreira/Ponamarenko chose a Flamenco for the free-dance. Carreira/Ponamarenko went the more traditional Flamenco route. Hawayek/Baker chose a very different Flamenco based on Beethoven's Fifth. I really like both programs.

I love Carreira/Ponamarenko's strong body lines and unison but he missed one of the twizzle patterns and if you look at their blades on the ice, they skate with more space between them (which is easier) than I am used to seeing from an Igor team (Kolesnick/Nguyen skate hip to hip, much closer together).

Hawayek/Baker really sold their Beethoven Flamenco. They skate really close together and really low in their knees (which affects the perception of height), which is more difficult than skating far apart and high in the knee. The connection between the two is really strong and I see a lot of innovative choreography in their free (which I appreciate). I do think they need more speed to be competitive with the top teams though.
 
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Doggygirl

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I wonder why H/D aren't competing before the GP? Considering how the end of last season ended and the poor choice in programs they had you'd think they would want to get out there and show that they have better programs and get them out there for the judges to see. Their spot as US number 1 ice dance team is not a guarantee at the moment.

If someone already answered this, my apologies - I didn't see it.

Golden Skate posted an interview recently with Marie U. where this question was asked. She stated something to the effect that last year, H/D rushed to get their programs ready for early competition, and they felt that was problematic. So this year they decided to concentrate on training and developing their programs up until SA.

(feel free to correct me if anyone saw that interview, and I'm not paraphrasing accurately)

I can't wait to see their programs!
 

aftershocks

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I really liked Hawayek/Baker's Rhythm Dance and they really seemed to get into it too.

Yep, I agree as I said earlier they were gung-ho into the RD, which is important. But I didn't enjoy it. Maybe if they tweak Kaitlin's hair and their costuming, I could get more out of it. Still, it's just been done before and I don't think in this transitional year that either of their programs really bring out something new for them that enhances who they are personality-wise and partnership-wise. They are just showing determination to get the job done with the material they were given.

Of course, that's at least good on their part. I'm just not drawn into either program. But I'll be open to seeing how they progress this season. As I said, I think there were other directions they might have gone in that might have been more impactful for them.
 

aftershocks

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Chock and Bates Free from this weekend:
https://youtu.be/rjg1cDamQkk

I love their sassy RD but I am not sold on this free. Too much stopping and posing for me. The dance needs to move out more. Egyptian themes encourage this type of posing and staticness but Grishuk and Platov showed that you can do an Egyptian themed program that moves and flies across the ice. I think Chock and Bates and their team should rework some of the choreography to get more speed and movement in the program.

I like this FD and the costuming. She's the snake and he's the snake charmer. I think the program is well-constructed. Since it's obviously Egyptian in nature, the way it's paced and put together doesn't bother me. As much as I like it and appreciate the push to try something different than they've done before, I really would like to see them bring back their FD from last season (maybe for the Olympic season hopefully). They didn't have an opportunity to skate last season's programs more than a few times at the end of the season. That FD is ripe to be seen again.


I missed this interview during the 2018 Olympics:
 

Sylvia

Rooting for underdogs!
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Posted in this thread back on July 25:
Looks like Logan Bye has returned to skating and will be skating with Eva Pate. See Instagram post below. I would assume they plan to skate senior due to age?

Eva Pate/Logan Bye are listed in the Senior Dance event, along with Livvy Shilling/Alexander Petrov, at the Midwestern Sectional Ice Dance Challenge that's taking place today and tomorrow in East Lansing, Michigan. No Senior teams are competing at the Eastern Sectional Ice Dance Challenge, also taking place today and tomorrow, in Aston, PA.

Kenan Slevira (he competed at the Cactus Classic & Lake Placid IDC this summer with Canada's Marine Pouliot) is partnered with Layla Karnes (2019 U.S. Novice bronze medalist with Kirill Aksenov) for the Midwestern Sectional Ice Dance Challenge Junior event, along with Anna Nicklas/Max Ryan and the 3 other new teams of Samantha Ritter/Jim Wang, Hilary Asher/Kyle Pearson and Isabella Flores/Adam Bouaziz (both Broadmoor SC).

The 2 Junior teams listed for the Eastern Sectional Ice Dance Challenge are Elizabeth Tkachenko/Alexei Kiliakov and Angela Ling/Caleb Wein.

(There is a thread for this first qualifying round of competitions in the Kiss & Cry section.)
 
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Dobre

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U.S. Junior Dance Scores from this year's JGP:
(Just let me know if you see any errors).

174.68 Nguyen & Kolesnik-Poland
170.80 Nguyen & Kolesnik-USA
148.81 Wolfkostin & Chen-Russia
147.93 Wolfkostin & Chen-France
147.05 DelCamp & Somerville-Italy
146.15 Brown & Brown-Italy
144.42 Cesanek & Yehorov-Croatia
141.51 Ales & Tsarik-Poland
141.33 Brown & Brown-Russia
140.51 Ales & Tsarik-USA
140.27 Cesanek & Yehorov-Latvia
137.44 DelCamp & Somerville-Croatia
122.65 Tkachenko & Kiliakov-France
 

Princessroja

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Can someone get the Browns to a tech specialist stat? If they could just get their levels and bring that RD score up, they'd be a force to be reckoned with. That free dance is something special, and their GOEs are fantastic.
 

Jammers

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Can someone get the Browns to a tech specialist stat? If they could just get their levels and bring that RD score up, they'd be a force to be reckoned with. That free dance is something special, and their GOEs are fantastic.
Yeah they didn't progress this season like young teams should and seem stuck in a rut at the moment. Just look at how much improved N/K were last season from 2017 and even the new team of W/C who have only been together for a few months improved over the course of their two JGP events.
 
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Dobre

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Yeah they didn't progress this season like young teams should and seem stuck in a rut at the moment. Just look at how much improved N/K were last season from 2017 and even the new team of W/C who have only been together for a few months improved over the course of their two JGP events.

They were hyped last season. (Which I blame Ted for a bit because he basically introduced them to the world at their first JGP by saying that they had earned a level 4 footwork sequence, and then didn't explain that it was actually called a level 2 upon review. It was obviously an initial miscall by the panel as Gage was off balance in the midst of it). They were a surprise to place as high as they did last year on the National scene. So of course, it was a great year for them. I just mean hyped by posters. They had a great tango last year. They also had a number of major missed elements in the FD.

Saying they have been stuck in a rut is inaccurate. They earned a Personal Best in Russia this season and now another one in Egna. They've also struggled with the twizzles. They are a work in progress, just like all the other junior dance teams.

This happens every year. Here is what happens. Blank team gains enough experience and enough teams move up, split, or retire that now people have expectations for blank team. This means blank team has more pressure. Then blank team gets upset in a portion or two of one competition by another team and people proclaim said new team (which did not have any pressure) to be up & coming stars.

Gropman & Somerville upset Lewis & Bye in one JGP and people proclaim L&B to be going nowhere and G&S to be breaking through. The following year the Browns upset G&S in the RD at U.S. Nationals (which still makes no sense to me based on the protocols), and people proclaim G&S to be in trouble and the Browns to be the future. This season the Browns are defeated by two brand new teams composed of various pieces of teams that weren't content with the narrative from last season and one team that didn't have any political pull at last year's Junior Nationals because he was ineligible last season. Relax.

It's a sport. Everyone has pressure headed their way. Ignore the narrative, stick together, & learn how to compete.
 
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aftershocks

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This is a sweet moment from a DelCamp/Somerville practice session:
https://www.instagram.com/p/B23lZOmHma9/
"... There's nothing quite like skating with your best friend."


In addition, I never heard of Tiffani Tucker & Franklyn Singley, 1993 U.S. ice dance bronze medalists:
 

aftershocks

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In my very humble opinion, neither C/P not M/C can catch H/B this year. That FD is brilliant, funny and really well-suited to Kaitlin and Jean-Luc.

Hmmm, I don't look at it in terms of other good young teams 'catching' H/B or not 'catching' H/B. As I said, I don't like H/B's RD and I thought their coaching team could have selected a better choice for them. And I hope they rethink the costuming and Kaitlin's hairstyle. The FD reminds me of what Gadbois did for the Danadians last season, which does not mean H/B won't be able to rock their FD over the course of this season. I personally was not wowed at first look for either program. IOW, H/B ain't got me at 'hello' this particular season. But of course, that could change. ;)

I really enjoy M/C, and their programs look good this season, but not significantly more impactful than what they did last season. C/P will do well to concentrate on working out the challenges of their new programs and continuing to grow. I really enjoy Green/Parsons' FD and I look forward to seeing them and their programs develop further over the course of the season. It's early yet. None of us have a crystal ball. That's why we watch. :watch:
 

Sylvia

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Eva Pate/Logan Bye are listed in the Senior Dance event, along with Livvy Shilling/Alexander Petrov, at the Midwestern Sectional Ice Dance Challenge that's taking place today and tomorrow in East Lansing, Michigan.
Update:
Shilling/Petrov won a close contest, scoring 144.41 (55.95 in RD, 88.46 in FD) over Pate/Bye 143.03 (58.58 in RD, 84.45 in FD). Both attained well over the minimum TES combined score of 65 for 2020 Nationals:
S/P 88.86 (34.85+54.01)
P/B 88.07 (36.98+51.09)
I believe both teams made USFS' ISP score as well... to be confirmed later.

Elicia and Stephen Reynolds just made the minimum score at the Chesapeake Open back in June (24.82+40.65=65.47). If no other teams can make the score at the Pacific Ice Dance Challenge and/or Final, there may be a few as 9 senior teams at Nationals in Greensboro.
 
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Sylvia

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Caroline Green/Michael Parsons article (10/2/2019) by @clairecloutier :):
 

chameleonster

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