U.S. Ice Dance 2019-20 season news & updates

Dobre

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I still don’t see any logical rationale to give up these spots. Less teams get to compete. Less teams get to earn points. Less teams get opportunities to make themeselves known to the judges.
By all appearances, all teams that will likely meet the ISU's mandate for minimum scores to compete at the Junior World level. (Ling & Wein, Tkachenko & Kiliakov, and Wolfkostin & Chen having already done so).

I’m not sure how anyone can defend this decision when there is no obvious reasoning behind it.
Probably they'll say that teams didn't earn the required scores early enough. But Lake Placid--which is where DelCamp & Somerville earned their ISP scores--has always been early enough for teams to nail down early JGP dance berths in the past. As far as we could tell, the Browns earned theirs at Lake Placid last season.

I think it's not good that it was held a week later this year.

Even so, if you have been paying attention to the U.S. junior dance field at all over the past several years, then you knew that Somerville & Wein had more JGP experience than the entire rest of the U.S. junior dance field so it was common sense to anticipate that their new partnerships might make the ISP by the end of the summer. And it's also common sense to think that brand new teams might need a few competitions in order to do so.

It would not have been that difficult. It would have made perfectly logical sense to put the Browns up against Cesanek & Yehorov in Latvia and send Ales & Tsarik along with their teammates, Wolfkostin & Chen, to Russia. Thereby opening up a spot in Poland for a late qualifying team. Even just putting in Tkachenko & Kiliakov or Lavrova & Gart as a placeholder early would have allowed someone to be moved into the field in Latvia.

I know. I said I had moved on. And I have.
 
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jlai

Title-less
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12,287
No, I fully expect this to be repeated nonstop for 14 days, at least.
I just wish people complained more about the whole US assignment instead of this ONE THING.
 

oleada

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41,647
No, I fully expect this to be repeated nonstop for 14 days, at least.
I just wish people complained more about the whole US assignment instead of this ONE THING.
No one is forcing you to read the posts.
 

her grace

standing with Mariah
Messages
3,186
It is tiresome to hear this ad Nauseum and it is gonna be another two weeks before it stops. There are at least 25 posts on this already.... while there are so many questionable things USFS does that are worthy of discussion. But fans would rather focus on a possible jr dance spot on Ling/Wein or a similar team than at least one of Thorngren or Cheng or Slavicek who may likely not get a jgp despite being meeting over the isp score and then some. Selected outrage often ignored situations just as worthy of discussion.
But when's the last time USFS didn't use a ladies spot? If the USFS had given up a ladies spot before the JGP season even began, I guarantee you there'd be more than 25 posts about it. And that's with the ladies not being particularly competitive as a group.

And I have shown outrage over every discipline regarding JGP spots over the years; guess I'm qualified to discuss it. :p

I still don’t see any logical rationale to give up these spots. Less teams get to compete. Less teams get to earn points. Less teams get opportunities to make themeselves known to the judges. They gave up spots at a less competitive event only to assign skaters to a very competitive event.

It’s not smart. It’s not well planned out. It’s not in any way logical. Even if USFS knew it was going to give up spots, why rid yourself of flexibility in the meantime? Why pigeonhole yourself?
THIS.

Policy-wise, I think the problem is that USFS refuses to name teams as subs when they are not in the ISP. So even though USFS knows in the case of dance that there are several athletes with JGP experience that have formed new teams, they refuse to put them in as subs until they obtain the required score. Then after they have obtained it--often before the JGP season even starts--they've already used so many spots or given up spots because there aren't enough ISP skaters to fill them that there's a crunch at the end of the JGP to fit everyone in. The same thing happens in pairs. USFS already knows before the season begins which teams are age-eligible. But they won't name those athletes as subs or they won't name placeholder names in case someone surprises in an early event. It's ridiculously stupid. USFS can keep its standards of having to be in the ISP to be selected. They can keep the required minimum score. But they could give themselves options by naming newly-formed teams where one partner has previous JGP experience to the sub list. They could name all age-eligible pairs competing at the junior level. Then after the summer monitoring competitions actually happen, they can make adjustments to the assignments.
 

jlai

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12,287
But when's the last time USFS didn't use a ladies spot? If the USFS had given up a ladies spot before the JGP season even began, I guarantee you there'd be more than 25 posts about it. And that's with the ladies not being particularly competitive as a group.

And I have shown outrage over every discipline regarding JGP spots over the years; guess I'm qualified to discuss it. :p



THIS.

Policy-wise, I think the problem is that USFS refuses to name teams as subs when they are not in the ISP. So even though USFS knows in the case of dance that there are several athletes with JGP experience that have formed new teams, they refuse to put them in as subs until they obtain the required score. Then after they have obtained it--often before the JGP season even starts--they've already used so many spots or given up spots because there aren't enough ISP skaters to fill them that there's a crunch at the end of the JGP to fit everyone in. The same thing happens in pairs. USFS already knows before the season begins which teams are age-eligible. But they won't name those athletes as subs or they won't name placeholder names in case someone surprises in an early event. It's ridiculously stupid. USFS can keep its standards of having to be in the ISP to be selected. They can keep the required minimum score. But they could give themselves options by naming newly-formed teams where one partner has previous JGP experience to the sub list. They could name all age-eligible pairs competing at the junior level. Then after the summer monitoring competitions actually happen, they can make adjustments to the assignments.
I actually don’t have any issues with any fed giving back spots, even ladies spots, as long as they are used by someone. (US has majorly benefitted from others giving up spots for ladies for 2-3 seasons. I believe you can’t just be a taker and not a giver in a system.) It is a real shame that spot is not used by any fed in this case though. But I don’t see how any fed can foresee whether returned spots get used? I also think there is a power imbalance among big skating feds already and big guys are already playing the field at the expense of the little feds.

I do agree it is a process issue and again not just in ice dance.

The thing is, with organizations with major process problems you can’t turn this thing around overnight. The fed is slowly doing better with selections—yes with a pace of a tortoise. Sometimes it is two step forward and one step back
 
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Dobre

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5,951
But they could give themselves options by naming newly-formed teams where one partner has previous JGP experience to the sub list. They could name all age-eligible pairs competing at the junior level. Then after the summer monitoring competitions actually happen, they can make adjustments to the assignments.
Even without doing so, they could have been fine this season in dance. Unless there's some hugely significant reason we had to plan on sending Ales & Tsarik to Poland. Which there isn't. I mean, it's handy for them to travel along with Nguyen & Kolesnik; but there was no reason they couldn't have traveled along with Wolfkostin & Chen instead. Yes, that would have limited the gap between both their events to one less week in between but that's no big deal. (And if it was they could have sent them to France & Russia and sent Tkachenko & Kiliakov to Lake Placid instead). It was doable. There were, of course, other scenarios that would have worked as well. I just point out this one because it would have been a very minimal change from the actual assignments.
 
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aftershocks

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The entire competition structure and selection process needs review and revamping. It takes thoughtful consideration, inclusive input, and willingness to rethink, to test out and to truly enact change in beneficial ways. The sport is just too full of unhelpful politics and conflicts of interest, which contributes to any kind of change coming at a snail's pace, if at all. It's a culture of silence and going along to get along, which we have seen played out in other problematic ways...

Meanwhile, I was contemplating whether Nguyen/Kolesnik will stay in juniors for at least the next two seasons. They will turn 17 and 18 respectively this fall. What are the chances of them standing on top of the GPF and junior Worlds podiums these next two seasons?
 

chameleonster

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427
My understanding is that Nguyen/Kolesnik have decided that they'll turn senior if they win junior worlds(although they may reevaluate depending on other factors).
 

aftershocks

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My understanding is that Nguyen/Kolesnik have decided that they'll turn senior if they win junior worlds(although they may reevaluate depending on other factors).
Thanks for the info. I wish them good luck. Perhaps if they don't win this season, they will stay junior another season. The U.S. senior field is pretty chock full right now. It won't hurt if N/K turn senior for the Olympic season, 2021-22. I suppose there will be a lot of factors to consider in making their decision.

I was looking at Avonley's Wiki and I noticed that when she started in ice dance, she was paired with Maxwell Gart. Of course, Gart went on to partner with Katarina DelCamp, who is now with Ian Somerville (formerly with Eliana Gropman), while Gart has fortuitously found a promising partnership with Anya Lavrova.

I was right that both Eliana Gropman and Avonley Nguyen have connections to Cleveland, Ohio. In fact, Avonley was born in Cleveland. Where she trains now is just across Lake Erie. After living in NY, I always wondered why there isn't an underground tunnel across Lake Erie connecting Cleveland to Detroit. It would have had to be constructed during a different age I suppose. Maybe there are complications with building underground/ underwater tunnels in the Great Lakes region as opposed to the rivers with tunnels in the New York area.
 

Colonel Green

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What are the chances of them standing on top of the GPF and junior Worlds podiums these next two seasons?
It's an open question whether Ushakova/Nekrasov will make it back to compete in this year's JGP Final, given the latter's surgery; if they don't, I think the JGP Final title is pretty much N/K's for the taking. And that'd given them plenty of momentum heading into Junior Worlds.
 

Dobre

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I think let's watch more than one JGP event before trying to predict the end of the series. (Especially considering that an FD score over 100 has already been thrown out there before we even got beyond the threshold). Best wishes to Avonley & Vadym this weekend! May their charm & twizzles be with them.
 

Lara111

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I think let's watch more than one JGP event before trying to predict the end of the series. (Especially considering that an FD score over 100 has already been thrown out there before we even got beyond the threshold). Best wishes to Avonley & Vadym this weekend! May their charm & twizzles be with them.
They had unbelievable luck in the last two years with Greens and U/N out. I hope U/N is back. They are registered for Croatia.
 

aftershocks

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^^ Luck along with stellar talent... :)

Ah some mistakes by two of the U.S. entries at Lake Placid. However, the overall quality of Vadym/Avonley's performance held them in good stead in the RD, and in the lead. Perhaps Anya & Max would have slotted in a couple of places higher without the lift error and the double fall. I hope Anya checks out okay -- there was a visible bump on her head.
 

Colonel Green

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^^ Luck along with stellar talent... :)

Ah some mistakes by two of the U.S. entries at Lake Placid. However, the overall quality of Vadym/Avonley's performance held them in good stead in the RD, and in the lead. Perhaps Anya & Max would have slotted in a couple of places higher without the lift error and the double fall. I hope Anya checks out okay -- there was a visible bump on her head.
Lavrova had major star quality, I thought.
 

platniumangel

Active Member
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193
^^ Luck along with stellar talent... :)

Ah some mistakes by two of the U.S. entries at Lake Placid. However, the overall quality of Vadym/Avonley's performance held them in good stead in the RD, and in the lead. Perhaps Anya & Max would have slotted in a couple of places higher without the lift error and the double fall. I hope Anya checks out okay -- there was a visible bump on her head.
Double fall on an element! I think their score was quite good considering the loss of points/deductions. Probably would have been two places higher without the fall. Oh well. I really like them together. She’s lovely, and they look great together. Very well matched.

Her cheek looked all red with a bump in the kiss and cry. I hope she’s okay. The Medical team on site sure was busy for this event 😔
 

aftershocks

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Lavrova had major star quality, I thought.
ITA, plus the way Anya and Max handled it all in the kiss 'n cry was so professional. Anya was smiling from ear-to-ear, and Max was trying to remain cheerful too. Of course, their smiles dipped a bit as the wait for their scores lengthened. But they are real troopers. I hope they regroup and come out strong again in the FD, and see their strengths through all the way.
 

love skating

Clueless American
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2,478
Lavrova and Gart have withdrawn due to her having a concussion.


Best to be safe - I wish her a speedy recovery!
 

shan

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Lavrova and Gart have withdrawn due to her having a concussion.


Best to be safe - I wish her a speedy recovery!
Poor girl. The slow motion replay of the fall was :yikes: (((Lavrova))) It's a shame they have to withdraw. I had never seen them before the RD and really enjoyed their skating. They have nice flow and are enjoyable to watch.
 

jlai

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Since all the Jgp assignments are now posted, I must say USFS somehow correctly predicted the teams that would do well enough in the first so far to deserve a second assignment. Perhaps the skills differences were that obvious between teams in the summer comps?
 

haribobo

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SENIOR DANCE
Carreira/Ponomarenko 177.72 Lake Placid
McNamara/Carpenter 175.75 Lake Placid
Green/Parsons 168.25 Lake Placid
Shilling/Petrov 140.64 Dance Pairs Chicago
Carhart/Vlasenko 120.15 Cactus Classic
Melton/O'Donnell 119.50 Dance Pairs Chicago
Reynolds/Reynolds 114.65 Chesapeake Open

To compete- Hubbell/Donohue, Chock/Bates, Hawayek/Baker

JUNIOR
Nguyen/Kolesnik-Dance Pairs Chicago 162 (170 @ JGP)
Wolfkostin/Chen-Chesapeake Open 150 (147 @ JGP)
DelCamp/Somerville-Lake Placid 148
Cesanek/Yehorov-(140 @ JGP) Lake Placid 134
Tkachenko/Kiliakov-Texas Cannon Open 138 (122 @ JGP)
Ales/Tsarik-Lake Placid 136 (140 @ JGP)
Brown/Brown-Chesapeake Open 135
Lavrova/Gart-Texas Cannon Open 126
Ling/Wein-Dance Pairs Chicago 126
 
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Dobre

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Meanwhile, I still haven't seen any protocols for Lake Placid International. (It has been over a month). If anyone can find them, please post the link for us. Thank you!
 

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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Daniel Brykalov (previously skated with his sister Paulina: http://www.brykalov.us/career/ ) is listed to compete with Ekaterina Kuznetsova for Azerbaijan at the Croatia JGP.
Daniel and his new partner will make their JGP debut in Chelyabinsk, Russia this week; they are coached in Philadelphia by Slava Uchitel, Nicholas Buckland & Penny Coomes: http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00108180.htm

Both USA teams will skate in the last group for the RD tomorrow:
Katarina WOLFKOSTIN / Jeffrey CHEN #14 (first up in group 4) and #18 of 18 Oona BROWN / Gage BROWN (Inese Bucevica & Joel Dear are listed as their coaches).
 
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her grace

standing with Mariah
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Wolfkostin/Chen have solidified their place as a top 3 American jr. dance team, maybe top 2 depending on how Del Camp/Somerville do at their JGP events.
 

Dobre

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Wolfkostin/Chen have solidified their place as a top 3 American jr. dance team, maybe top 2 depending on how Del Camp/Somerville do at their JGP events.
I don't think you can solidify yourself against someone in separate events; but kudos to W&C for coming back well after the fall in the RD and skating with fight in the FD:). And kudos to the Browns too, who likewise earned a Personal Best in Russia.
 
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her grace

standing with Mariah
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3,186
I don't think you can solidify yourself against someone in separate events; but kudos to W&C for coming back well after the fall in the RD and skating with fight in the FD:). And kudos to the Browns too, who likewise earned a Personal Best in Russia.
Well, Wolfkostin/Chen beat the Browns at Chesapeake and JGP Russia, beat Lavrova/Gart at Chesapeake and Cannon, beat Ales/Tsarik at Chesapeake, Cannon, and Lake Placid. Beat Tkachenko/Kiliakov at Cannon ETA and JGP France, Ling/Wein at Cannon and Lake Placid, beat Lin/Sletten at Cannon and Lake Placid. They lost to DelCamp/Somerville at Lake Placid and to Nguyen/Kolesnik at Cannon, but otherwise haven't been beaten by any other American team all season. The only JGP team they haven't faced is Cesanek/Yehorov, but W/C's JGP scores were both 7-8 points higher than Cesenek/Yehorov's. W/C's SB is second of all American Junior dance teams thus far, seven points ahead of the next American team. I think that's solidifying their spot near the top of Junior American dance. YMMV.
 
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Princessroja

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Well done to Green/Parsons at Lombardia! 170 and change, and they missed the podium by only two points. I think they'll be a good team together.
 

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