U.S. Ice Dance 2018-19 season news & updates

The other Dubreil & Lauzon teams have competed and/or are competing this week. I think all except Chock & Bates, who we know are coming back after her surgery, and Fukase & Tateno, who have reportedly also faced an injury.

Edit: And Plutowska & Flemin? Which is also odd. They aren't on the GP. They need the Challengers. Though they can probably place better if they compete in the late-season ones.
 
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Dobre said:
The other Dubreil & Lauzon teams have competed and/or are competing this week. I think all except Chock & Bates, who we know are coming back after her surgery, and Fukase & Tateno, who have reportedly also faced an injury.

Edit: And Plutowska & Flemin? Which is also odd. They aren't on the GP. They need the Challengers. Though they can probably place better if they compete in the late-season ones.
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They said they are not ready yet...Possibly later in October of if not November....Not sure how many spots in anything Poland has but there is a very successful team ahead of them.
 
barbarafan said:
not sure where to go to check but I think I read they went to Europeans last yr....Do you know how to get European results as I would like to check?
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Yes, they competed last year and missed the FD by one spot, finishing 21st.
http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1718/ec2018/CAT004RS.HTM
All you have to do is type "2018 European Figure Skating Championships results," and google will bring the link right up. Same with any competition: year, name of the event, and results. Adding the abbreviation "ISU" can help.

My apologies for the random sidetrip. Back to U.S. Ice Dance.
 
aftershocks said:
... it will be important for H/B to maintain their current standing.
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Ah, I meant H/D in this sentence, post #193. But whatever. We all have our skater and ice dance team preferences, which plays into our views of what may or may not happen going forward.


laviemn said:
I'm pretty sure I read over the summer that H/D said they intend to go to Beijing 2022, and that C/B said they don't know how long they will compete...
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Yes, I recall now hearing something to that effect. Very cool if they are that determined. I wished for them to get a medal in Pyeongchang. If they had, I wonder if they would now be so intent on continuing through 2022. No matter what, I hope H/D continue to bring their intensity of energy and talent to the ice over the next four-year long haul.

Perhaps C/B want to win another U.S. national championship and stake another World podium claim before retiring.
 
angi said:
I assumed they withdrew from ACI because they felt unprepared and since several Gadbois teams are doing Finlandia it made sense that they'll go there. Withdrawing from Finlandia too is worrying, I mean maybe they still feel unprepared and their first GP assignment is only in November, but going into the season with no feedback at all after making a big change is an interesting decision that's for sure...
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Or injuries
 
Random Question: Why so many US resources for bro/sis teams...how much advantage does this really give in Senior?
 
And coaches only have to worry about getting paid by one set of parents. :p

As to why there are resources given to brother/sister teams in the U.S., I think the answer is simple. Resources are given to a team whose results justify the resources. It's not as if the USFS is putting brothers and sisters together and funding them. The real question is why are there a lot of sibling teams in the U.S.? IMO, it's probably because simple logistics. Siblings start skating together at the roughly the same time. People realize they'd be good at ice dancing later on. They have a built-in partnership right there as opposed to chasing down a stranger or scrambling to find a partner. The fact that they have a familial relationship means the likelihood of breaking up of having a breakdown in communication won't be as high. They are probably really comfortable with each other as well. And it probably becomes a big family affair so there will be a lot of focus and a feeling that the family is working together to reach a shared long-term goal. Some couples end up breaking up when one partner decides to do something else with their life.

The Parsons had different partners once, according to Rachel's Wikipedia page, but she ended up with her brother. Alex & Maia began learning ice dance together, were both inspired to be ice dancers at the same time (cited attending 2003 Worlds), and Maia has said she wouldn't dance with anyone else.
 
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Donut Knoll said:
Random Question: Why so many US resources for bro/sis teams...how much advantage does this really give in Senior?
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Probably the same advantage it gives to non-sibling couples who don't have romantic chemistry, honestly. Gilles/Poirier, for example, don't lean on a romantic connection. McNamara/Carpenter are a younger senior team who don't seem to have strong romantic chemistry on the ice but have had some very compelling programs in the past. Also, chemistry and connection on the ice doesn't have to be romantic.

Like others have said, USFS gives the resources to the teams who do well enough to earn them.
 
Speaking of sibling teams, the Parsons scored 110 in the FD *with* a counted fall— although watching the video it was hard to see what counted as the fall. Was it when Rachel lurched forward while on one knee at the ending?

In any case, they and M/C continue to progress well in terms of relative standings in their second senior season.
 
firstflight said:
Speaking of sibling teams, the Parsons scored 110 in the FD *with* a counted fall— although watching the video it was hard to see what counted as the fall. Was it when Rachel lurched forward while on one knee at the ending?

In any case, they and M/C continue to progress well in terms of relative standings in their second senior season.
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She touched the ice with one hand when she lost balance at the end of the program.... I guess that explain the -1
 
I don't know a lot about ice dance, obviously...
I understand how bro/sis teams accomodate families and I can understand how they benefit coaches in a couple $$ of ways...through novice, maybe junior but senior? Last I checked bronze is bronze. I am a great fan of the Shibs, because they seem well matched in power and presentation. The best senior teams have well matched power, IMO.
 
Donut Knoll said:
I don't know a lot about ice dance, obviously...
I understand how bro/sis teams accomodate families and I can understand how they benefit coaches in a couple $$ of ways...through novice, maybe junior but senior? Last I checked bronze is bronze. I am a great fan of the Shibs, because they seem well matched in power and presentation. The best senior teams have well matched power, IMO.
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If it works for them and they have continued success, then like any partnership, they will stay together. If there's any sort of problem or they think they have reached as far as they can together, then they will find other partners. Just like non-sibling teams. It's not easy to pick it right up with another partner as we have seen where one partner cannot find another partner after a break up or can't match previous success. Also, no need to dismiss a bronze medal. Many people fight all their lives just to qualify for the Olympics, especially in a competitive country for ice dance like the U.S. is right now, and that medal was not easily won. The Shibs ended up hitting it off with the Olympic audience and are enjoying current off-ice success because of it. They did something right staying together.
 
Speaking of sibling teams what's up with the Greens? This was going to be a breakout year on the JGP for them and now it looks like they won't compete at all until Nationals hopefully.
 
Crossposting my response from a discussion earlier this year in the Kiss & Cry to someone who asked a similar question. In this case it was about why there are so many sibling teams in the U.S. & whether there were any in other countries (I think the resource aspect is obvious. The resources go to teams that win):


Well, of course there are sibling dance teams in other countries. I've seen them from all the major dance power countries: Italy, France, Canada, & Russia, though the Russian teams were younger and the most recent top junior team in Canada split--like @90 percent of the Canadian dance field--in 2016.

But, for what it's worth, I'll take a theoretical stab at why sibling dance teams are successful in the larger scheme of U.S. dance if you'd like:

1. Sibling teams tend to experience more success early in their careers. They tend to train together or with the same coaches from an earlier age, have similar technique, and have shared the same partner from very early on. This is not true of all sibling dance teams. But it is a pattern. A lot of times, the larger field eventually catches up. But not always.

2. They have successful role models. The Shibs are only the fourth U.S. dance team to ever medal at an Olympic Games. People tend to emulate success. The Parsons just won Junior Worlds. The Greens won two novice titles. (Wheaton has had at least three medal-winning sibling teams. The coaches work with very young athletes, and their teams tend to stay together a long time from a young age).

3. The modern wave of successful U.S. dance teams has been characterized by teams that stick together. The U.S. has only three Olympic medal winning dance teams since O'Conner & Millns in 1976. Belbin & Agosto, Davis & White, and the Shibs all won junior national titles together. I attended the U.S. Championships in 2014. Of the junior teams that split since that competition, none remain competitive. In such a deep senior field, partner swapping seems like a first class ticket down in the standings.

4. Need. The U.S. has a long history of doing a lousy job recruiting young men into the partnership disciplines in figure skating. Brothers are handy. And success encourages them to keep competing.

5. Contrary to the opinions on this board, I see no stigma toward sibling dance teams among the audience members at U.S. Nationals. I suppose it's probably an issue for some people. Everything is an issue for some people. But it would never have occurred to me, prior to reading discussion board comments here, that being a sibling dance team would be viewed as anything other than a plus for the Shibs. They are so well matched . . . it is like they share the same gene pool or something;). As long as I have been watching figure skating (since the 84 Olympics), there has always been a successful international sibling dance or pair team on the scene.

6. The one problem I often see splitting up sibling teams--mostly pairs--is that as they grow up, the childhood height difference often disappears. Maybe this leads people to think that sibling teams can't last. But--you know--precious few young partnerships last. Related or not. You have to be very, very good to last in this sport. I would say that more dance teams succeed today, though, than in the past. We see more movement, and therefore, more successful teams. Including more successful sibling partnerships. And, in dance, the height disparity need not be nearly as large as in pairs. Denkova & Stavisky won two world titles and were quite similar in height. Synchronicity, close skating, good lines, similar technique--all things that tend to characterize sibling dance teams--these can outweigh the advantages of a large height difference, IMO. Not every sibling team has that magical persona that draws you to them. That's for sure. But that's true of the vast majority of non-sibling teams as well.

Finding that kindred-spirit partnership. That can happen at any time. Sometimes it even happens with your very first dance partner.


Additional Note: As far as my own personal observations go, I've always thought the Shibs had that IT relationship with the audience & each other on the ice. I think the Peals have it too.
 
Having as I do a big brother, I'm very fond of sibling teams. Our particular team sport was Teasing And Whining, which, sadly, was not an Olympic event when we were at our peak.

Other than Madison Hubbell, have there been skaters who have successfully transitioned from partnering with a sibling to partnering with someone new?
 
When the siblings are young, being a sibling team isn't a detriment at all. They tend to be well-matched and no one's doing ultra-romantic or sensual themes at those ages. Fast forward and sibling teams have to be much more clever than non-sibling teams in choosing choreography. By the time that becomes a challenge, if the sibling team has had a lot of success, breaking up is hard to do. Usually, one of the siblings gets left out while the other sibling gets to continue their career. How do you have that conversation as a parent or as a sibling? We think X would be more successful without you.

Here's some examples of sibling teams who have broken up and at least one partner has re-teamed. The Gamelin twins, he re-partners with Min and went to the Olympics for Korea. I don't think she got another partner (also unaware of whether she wanted one). Hubbell/Hubbell, she re-partners and wins a world medal. He skated briefly with Anastasia Olson, but wasn't successful. He tried to skate with Vanessa Crone, but both countries blocked that partnership by refusing to release its skater. 2014 Novice champs Becker/Becker broke up when they became a size mismatch. He's continuing on with Amoia, and she has not (again, don't know if she tried to get another partner or not). Intermediate skaters Zhao/Zhao broke up, his career took off with Wolfkostin (2017 intermediate champ and 2018 novice national champs). I think she didn't get another partner until recently. ETA: Reed/Reed. He continued on with Muramoto successfully and went to Olympics for Japan. She retired.
 
I like the Shibs, a lot.
But I wonder if other training centers in other countries shuffle the deck at earlier stages,
of development, prior to novice, or if the US attempts to do this?
(I don't know about "deserving scores" or "Russian heritage" or Russians v. Russians v. everyone else...
these matters seem squishy, but everyone has bias, that much is true!)
I think any Team that makes the podium at the World or Olympic level deserves to be there.
Very thought provoking discussion, this topic would make a great thesis for someone.
 
Donut Knoll said:
But I wonder if other training centers in other countries shuffle the deck at earlier stages, of development, prior to novice, or if the US attempts to do this?
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Since the skaters' families foot the bills at the early stages of development (and mostly after, too), I would say not.

I remember when Rachel Parsons won the Juvenile (2009) & Intermediate (2010) national titles with Kyle MacMillan and only after that did she start skating with brother Michael.
 
Donut Knoll said:
But I wonder if other training centers in other countries shuffle the deck at earlier stages, of development, prior to novice, or if the US attempts to do this?
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Training centers are not the same thing as federations.

In small federations, or federations where almost all training happens in the same handful of rinks in the same one or two cities, which is also where the federation leaders are based, and where the federation is directly involved in funding the training, there may more input from the federations at developmental levels. I really don't know, because living in the US I've never been exposed to that kind of structure myself.


There are thousands of rinks in the US spread out over thousands of miles, hundreds of figure skating clubs, dozens of clubs with enough figure skating ice time and coaching experience to be considered "training centers" or at least to regularly send skaters to Nationals.

Fewer for ice dance specifically. Still, probably about a dozen rinks/clubs that could be considered dance training centers.

As Sylvia notes, in the US, the funding almost entirely comes from the skaters' families.

The federation has no control over who skates where, with which coach or which partner. At best, the federation or individual officials might organize training camps once or twice a year or offer critiques to individual teams and coaches at competitions or at their home rinks. Sometimes they have (co)organized partner search opportunities. Unofficial conversations between dance coaches and dance officials might include suggestions or observations that may get taken to heart. And of course, the federation makes the rules for domestic competition, including testing requirements, qualifying procedures including byes, and program/competition content for lower competition levels.

But US Figure Skating doesn't train skaters. And they don't form teams. They provide a structure in which skaters/teams compete against each other and earn rewards (medals, funding, invitations/assignments to additional competitions and training camps). Any team that skates well enough in competition to earn the necessary placements will receive the attendant rewards. Those who perform less well may not earn the rewards and may choose to quit or split and find other partners they might do better with. Any individual ice dancer and coach looking for a partner might get some useful direction from networking with officials as well as with other coaches. That's about the extent of the federation involvement in team forming.
 
her grace said:
ETA: Reed/Reed. He continued on with Muramoto successfully and went to Olympics for Japan. She retired.
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I really love some sibling teams - the Shibs and really the Parsons are growing on me - but Chris Reed is an interesting example to me. When he skated with his sister, I'm sorry to say, I just found him a total yawn. They seemed like lovely people but they were my "fridge break" as Uncle Dick would say. However, I was surprised by how quickly I found him to gel with Kana Muramoto and they became a really interesting team for me. I would say I even became their fan. I was very disappointed with their split this summer.

So, I don't know, I think a lot depends on the specific dynamics of the sibling relationship and the creativity of their team & choreographer.

Sorry, back to US Ice Dance I guess?? I have been really blown away by the Browns this year. Disappointed the Greens have not been able to compete. I am kind of obsessed with the idea of a Browns vs. Greens rivalry. :biggrinbo
 
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