The Dance Hall 7: Tripping the Light Fantastic 2019-2020

[Miloune]

Maria Kazakova / Georgy Reviya's winning Junior FD at JGP Zagreb yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSLS8WFcnMM

Woo that was really nice indeed!!

 

[GreenGan]

Maria Kazakova / Georgy Reviya's winning Junior FD at JGP Zagreb yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSLS8WFcnMM

Oh. Thank you for posting this. They do not give me junior vibe at all. They're skating together, there is texture in their dancing. Definitely a couple to watch. I don't watch junior much, but they interest me way more than the other junior/young senior I've watched so far.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ A new young team on the rise. To me, they look and perform like seniors already. It never fails to excite when great music, choreo, concept and costumes connect with a well-matched couple and magic happens.

Meanwhile, bringing some of my comments over from U.S. ice dance thread:
As much as I enjoy Hawayek/Baker and dislike all the critiques regarding their heights, I found the height issue distracting in their new RD. I didn't particularly care for their costumes or the concept for them either. They are obviously excellent skaters and Jean Luc has some of the best blade skills in the world. I just don't like Saturday Night Fever for them, as it's been crafted in this program. The concept and music are rather overused by this point anyway. Despite H/B being gung-ho about getting into it, the program didn't seem like a great fit for them. What was with Kaitlin wearing a teased ponytail on top of her head though? I don't care if it was supposed to highlight theme & character. It only serves to call more attention to a height issue. Of course, they skated well but clearly this RD did not win against programs with better concept and fit by other teams, including Gadbois teams (F-B/S, Smart/Diaz, and I also enjoyed Fear/Gibson's RD better than H/B's). I think H/B and coaches could have come up with something better, because it looks like they weren't very inspired with this choice.

What about something like Cabaret, or Slaughter on 10th Avenue with Vera-Ellen & Gene Kelly? Those show concepts I think might work better for H/B. Even something like the Gwen Verdon/Bob Fosse number in Damn Yankees. Perhaps A Chorus Line, or Beautiful: The Carole King Musical. What about Rent? Or An American in Paris, or On the Town? I mean think outside the box and do some research, rather than settling for tired retreads. Even Chicago, which has been done before by singles skaters might look better on H/B than what they've ended up with. Vincente Minnelli's Meet Me in St. Louis with Judy Garland is dated, but also worth consideration. What about reaching not so far back to Bye Bye Birdie, an early 1960s forerunner of the Grease genre? In addition, there's Dirty Dancing, Footloose, Gigi, and Swing Time (Ginger Rogers & Fred Astaire). Didn't anyone have thinking caps on? Or are these suggestions musically unfeasible and/ or complicated to cut and choreograph?

Minnelli also directed Judy Garland and Robert Walker in a 1945 b&w romantic war-era film that is not a musical, but it is paced and directed like a musical. It's one of my favorite old movies. I was surprised to find it available online:

The Clock (Vincente Minnelli - 1945) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

archive.org

At least change Kaitlin's sp hairstyle and rethink the costumes too! Although H/B's tango fd is good, it reminds me of what the Gadbois team did to greater effect for Fournier-Beaudry/Sorensen last season. H/B can handle the tango of course, but it just doesn't engage my attention. I hope H/B come up with something better for themselves next year and going into the Olympic season. I know trying to be creative every year isn't easy, but better realized ideas make a bigger impact. There's this tendency with music and concept selection to rely on tried and true but now's the time to experiment with more unique concepts.

Smart/Diaz are having so much fun with Grease, especially Olivia. I didn't particularly care for Carreira/Ponomarenko's programs this season, but they seem a tad more workable than H/B's current take on Saturday Night Fever. It's just not an inspired nor is it an organic choice for H/B, since Gilles/Poirier did an imaginative program to SNF a couple of seasons ago. And also Fear/Gibson's fd last season utiized the same G/P-inspired disco theme, but it was more exciting than H/B's incarnation. Perhaps it might help a bit if H/B tweaked their costuming and changed Kaitlins hairstyle.

 

[aftershocks]

It's obvious to me that Manta/Johnson's Sweet Dreams FD at 2019 U.S. Nationals informed quite a few choreographic ideas and poses in a number of programs (such as Smart/Diaz, Fear/Gibson, et al, and even including a few moves in the Kazakova/ Reviya program).

Manta & Johnson Free Dance 2019 USA Nationals 'Sweet Dreams'

Manta & Johnson Free Dance 2019 USA Nationals 'Sweet Dreams'

www.youtube.com

Version without commentary:

#USChamps19 Manta/Johnson Free Dance

Karina Manta and Joe Johnson's rendition of "Sweet Dreams" received a standing ovation at Little Caesars Arena in Detroit. Their performance was one of the h...

www.youtube.com

 

[clairecloutier]

There's an interesting interview on ice-dance.com with Doug Webster, founder and director of Ice Dance International. He shares his perspective on the current competitive ice dance scene:

https://www.ice-dance.com/site/doug...o04gfZ17K7K5NyJgOJX_mBGIFBHnfl_xACzvHtpS55eIE

 

[firstflight]

I also enjoyed the dance, but for now something wasn’t working for me.
They reminded me of Helena Bonham Carter and Tim Burton a bit.
And it also feels a bit like a Spanish-themed Sofia Coppola’s Marie Antoinette

I think H/B's FD is delightfully weird. Is she going for Helena Bonham Carter? That character step is my favorite of the season so far.

At the risk of quoting myself, that’s two nods to Helena Bonham Carter being the possible inspiration for her portrayal.

 

[TheresMaude]

There's an interesting interview on ice-dance.com with Doug Webster, founder and director of Ice Dance International. He shares his perspective on the current competitive ice dance scene:

https://www.ice-dance.com/site/doug...o04gfZ17K7K5NyJgOJX_mBGIFBHnfl_xACzvHtpS55eIE

I really enjoyed that interview. I COMPLETELY agree with him about the artistic black hole that is the twizzle sequence. I understand why it's thought to be necessary in competitive terms, but, oy, is it inherently uninteresting IMO.

 

[starrynight]

What could the twizzles be replaced with? I get the idea is to have an easily observable high risk technical element. I think dance needs that. But is there anything else that could work instead?

 

[Wyliefan]

I love his idea of choreographing dances for all the skaters in a particular group!

 

[aftershocks]

The below passage is from the Douglas Webster interview on IDC that Claire posted (#845):

"IDC: If you were asked to choreograph a competitive ice-dance program for a current couple, whom would you choose and why?

D Webster: I would ask to choreograph the entire Montreal School in one ice ballet. The Montreal School should have a professional company for the skaters to mature into.

Every ice dance school should have its company school…like SAB [School of American Ballet]…and they should be creating work together. These pieces would be non-competitive, but company pieces of repertory building to the professional company. These companies could co-exist and help build all the current competitive programming and help provide alternatives to one competitive path that ice dancers thrive on. This would be an hour a day, along with a company edge class."


I think the bolded ideas expressed by Webster make a lot of sense.


At the end of the interview, these words by Webster, resonate:

"I’ve learned to trust my instincts and follow my heart. The best creative energies come from your core and not by trying to imitate others."

 

[aftershocks]

What could the twizzles be replaced with? I get the idea is to have an easily observable high risk technical element. I think dance needs that. But is there anything else that could work instead?

Webster specifically said he felt twizzles done in exhibition by ice dancers is like competitive singles skaters doing leveled footwork in exhibition performances. He emphasized being against seeing twizzles performed in exhibition. He didn't necessarily seem to be completely against twizzles being performed in competition:

"IDC: You have seen many changes in ice dancing over the years. What do you like the best and the least?

D. Webster: Twizzles…the worst…not so much for competitive skating, but how they’ve found their way into performance skating – like watching the ice dancers in Stars on Ice…I think the fear of screwing up a side-by-side twizzle is more difficult than the feat itself. Then the theatrical full face and shazam moment when they’re done always makes me laugh. Side-by-side twizzles are completely uninteresting to me. The same as how competitive skaters do leveled footwork in their exhibition programs. Break free people!! Think outside of the box!"

 

[manhn]

Do teams do twizzles in gala programs? Well, except when they perform a competitive program.

 

[chantilly]

Meh whatever I love twizzles. I’ve seen fantastically choreographed twizzles. Shibs, V and M in MR and FB/S’s RD this year come immediately to mind, just to name a few.
And IMO separates the wheat from the chaff.
And I’m not just talking about the twizzle sequence. The double turn/twizzle required in the patterns is also in the same boat.

They demonstrate speed, edge work and control in skills and creativity and execution in well execution .

IMO there’s a reason it upends teams.

 

[bcash]

I think H/B's FD is delightfully weird. Is she going for Helena Bonham Carter? That character step is my favorite of the season so far.

I agree about their FD and character step. And they look like they are owning it. It's just so much more interesting imo than FB/S's program. That coupled with the superior skating skills of Jean-Luc over Sorensen I don't see how the Danadians should rank above H/B.

 

[Ka3sha]

I understand why it's thought to be necessary in competitive terms, but, oy, is it inherently uninteresting IMO.

Katsalapov, Poje and few others don’t agree

IDK, I love twizzles. I think they add difficulty and risk to an ice dance programs.
And I wouldn’t call Shibs twizzles in Fix You FD or V/M’s twizzles in MR (just few examples off the top of my head) uninteresting.
[Oops, @chantilly haven’t read your post before posting ]

BTW, I miss ‘original’ twizzles without steps and interactions in between - they were way more difficult and at the same time impressive

 

[Enchanted]

I've never cared for twizzles for one way or another. The only time I've been amazed by twizzles was P/C's Sheeran SD. They were very close to each other and super fast. Those were the fastest twizzles I've ever seen in person and I've seen a lot of them.

 

[nuge]

The first time I actually noticed twizzles were from Shae Lynn Bourne in their March with me FD .She was twizzling all over the place This was before they became an element.

 

[aftershocks]

I've never really thought about twizzles much to be overly for or against them. They are a necessity and a reality in competition. And Webster did not actually say they shouldn't be performed in competition. He seems to not like twizzles, but especially he doesn't seem to like them in exhibitions. Perhaps because they are mandated in competitions, and music or interpretation of music doesn't necessarily always call for doing twizzles, I suppose in the way Webster seems to view choreography and ice dance.

Twizzles are a challenge for ice dancers and it's amazing the way so many teams have mastered them and in some cases found new ways of performing them to get away from the sameness. The Shibs' twizzles and Davis/White's twizzles were always a sight to behold, and always exciting anticipated moments in their programs.

 

[MarieM]

Noone twizzles like Pasha. Noone.

 

[Carina]

Noone twizzles like Pasha. Noone.

Have to agree, those highlight the programs

 

[casken]

Twizzles are fine, but I don't think a twizzle sequence should be a FD feature. Leave it for the RD.

I'd rather have, say, three distinct twizzles spread throughout the FD as suited. If the music calls for two of them to be back to back, then so be it.

 

[chantilly]

Twizzles are fine, but I don't think a twizzle sequence should be a FD feature. Leave it for the RD.

I'd rather have, say, three distinct twizzles spread throughout the FD as suited. If the music calls for two of them to be back to back, then so be it.

I have a hard time keeping up with the rules but twizzles are already required by both in the footwork are they not? I think each skater has to perform two.

But I’d be fine taking out the twizzle sequence in the FD, and leaving it in the RD.But if I had to choose a twizzle sequence over a combination spin, I’d pick twizzle every time. I think the combination spin usually sucks. It’s way better in dance then pairs though.

 

[Wyliefan]

Katsalapov, Poje and few others don’t agree

Shoot, we just saw Cizeron mess his up. Twizzles are impressive for sure, but I'm not ready to say they separate the good from the great.

 

[Bigbird]

Shoot, we just saw Cizeron mess his up. Twizzles are impressive for sure, but I'm not ready to say they separate the good from the great.

More like he got lost and quickly righted himself. I found that rather impressive, TBH.

 

[starrynight]

Shoot, we just saw Cizeron mess his up. Twizzles are impressive for sure, but I'm not ready to say they separate the good from the great.

They add that danger element though, which is exciting. Because in dance, most people cannot tell can what levels any of the teams are getting on anything else. So it's sort of the moment you wait for with held breath. As compared to singles, where you hold your breath before every jump.

Cause the thing is, in dance - we already know that P/C will win everything this season including Worlds. The actual skating is just a formality - lol at this point they might as well just be doing an exhibition skate after the competition for everyone else has concluded. So there needs to be at least something that has a risk element in dance. Whereas in singles, you cannot confidently say that Trusova will win everything, even though she has the highest base value. Because there's risk in singles that doesn't exist in dance.

Part of me thinks that if the twizzles were removed, the judges could basically place teams anywhere they wanted.

 

[mollymgr]

The discussion about twizzles is good. IMO without twizzles, the discipline would become more subjective than it is. It requires strategic placement in a program so it has a tendency to affect the rest of the elements. While I agree that they don't always make sense in a program, it does test the physical and mental abilities of a team. It is one element where even a non-ice dance watcher can spot a mistake. Twizzles are also the most dangerous element. It is pretty common knowledge that in ice dance you are not likely to win a competition with a fall and that is one element that is most likely to cause it.

 

[starrynight]

It requires strategic placement in a program so it has a tendency to affect the rest of the elements.

It’s also the one element that everyone has to do pretty much the same and there’s not as much room for clever choreography to hide weaknesses.

 

[deegee]

the EXIT from the twizzle sequence in p/c's to build a home fd makes my stomach tighten and tumble every time. but the impact of the exit is because of the sequence itself. that exit move done anywhere else in the program would not be gasp-worthy.

 

[muffinplus]

I just can't with this kiss&cry:

Elizaveta KHUDAIBERDIEVA / Andrey FILATOV (RUS) | Ice Dance Free Dance | Riga 2019

Visit https://isu.org/JuniorGrandPrix for more information on the ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating.Courchevel, France - August 21 to 24Lake Placid, US...

youtu.be

I thought the place was going to collapse

 

[Dobre]

I am hopelessly behind in this thread, but do we have confirmation that Yanovskaya is still skating with Lukacs?

(I am asking because I cannot remember seeing her on any lists yet this season . . . and she is on my could-possibly-skate-with-Soloviev list).

I don't have instagram.