The Dance Hall 7: Tripping the Light Fantastic 2019-2020

mollymgr

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I think barring that twizzle error and a little more polishing, C/P's flamenco should garner several more points in future comps. It needs more intensity. It feels like they are still thinking through the program a little bit. But it is quite sound choreographically.
 

firstflight

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I think biggest news here is the sustained elevation in F-B/S’s scores compared to last season. Message is pretty clear: 1) there will be a fight for the national title this season; 2) both of Canada’s top 2 teams will likely remain ahead of US’s 3rd place team (if everyone skates clean)
 

mollymgr

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It will be interesting to see how silver and bronze placements turn out this season and the next. There is definitely a change of guard, with most teams sitting out, retiring etc.
 

starrynight

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I think biggest news here is the sustained elevation in F-B/S’s scores compared to last season. Message is pretty clear: 1) there will be a fight for the national title this season; 2) both of Canada’s top 2 teams will likely remain ahead of US’s 3rd place team (if everyone skates clean)
I would be beyond shocked after all of the political support G/P have received domestically over the years, if the moment the field is finally cleared by retirements that they gave the national title to another team - especially one only skating for Canada for a season. There'd be bits of Carol Lane's brain splattered all over the ice after her head would have exploded.
 
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bbkenn

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MarieM

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I would be beyond shocked after all of the political support G/P have received domestically over the years, if the moment the field is finally cleared by retirements that they gave the national title to another team - especially one only skating for Canada for a season. There'd be bits of Carol Lane's brain splattered all over the ice after her head would have exploded.
Well she should have given them good programs this season, and she hasn't.
The RD is so old fashioned and dated it makes me cringe.
And the FD could be salvagable if it finds its own voice.
 

Gris

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392
OK I didn't expect myself to say this, but I really like P/C's FD this year. 2 days ago when it was first announced that they'd do slam poetry I wasn't convinced (and I'm not a fan of that particular Forest Blakk piece at all) and feared it might end horribly.

However when they started moving, everything made so much sense! I think this is their best choreographed FD since Mozart.
 

Wyliefan

Trying to appease the skategods
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It works. It really does. It's no great shakes of a poem, but it's serviceable in setting a tone and a mood. And as for the skating itself, the shapes and movements they're doing are really special, even at this relatively unpolished stage.
 

starrynight

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Well let's just say if it actually came to pass they gave the national title to FB/S I'd be :watch: for when Carol Lane and G/P torched the rink in revenge.

But seriously, the domestic judges have been dying to give G/P the top spot for years (you know things like giving them national record scores at domestic comps etc). I just can't even imagine a situation where (barring serious error) they put F-B/S over them this season. It would be an incredibly symbolically mean slap in the face after all the politicking they've put behind G/P over the years. I just don't see it happening. They'd have to massively put some judges off side for this to occur.

I think I read so many articles where G/P were quoted saying they were upset at not winning the national title last season and thought they deserved the win and that was where they were against a team who always placed higher internationally. Imagine the reaction against F-B/S.
 
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Bigbird

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But don't the Danadians have the better skatings skills when my other de-facto eye candy Sorensen, doesn't pull a Nikita or something? GP get tight when it matters most.
 

Miloune

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But don't the Danadians have the better skatings skills when my other de-facto eye candy Sorensen, doesn't pull a Nikita or something? GP get tight when it matters most.
It's true that G/P always had originality and choreography on their side, to compensate. This year their programs seem to lack in both departments so maybe FB/S will take advantage of it... In the end it depends on the will of the judges..
 

Colonel Green

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I would be beyond shocked after all of the political support G/P have received domestically over the years, if the moment the field is finally cleared by retirements that they gave the national title to another team - especially one only skating for Canada for a season.
If we're talking politicking, it's not like Marie-France Dubreuil lacks for muscle.

As far as the dynamics of the race, I think there's always a very complicated interplay between domestic and international scoring in ice dance -- mainly because with all the issues around team image, momentum, etc., no fed wants to undermine their existing top dog unless there's a strong case that this won't hurt the fed's position internationally (conversely, international judges often wait for movement domestically before altering the existing hierarchy). And in this specific instance, Canada has to thread a fairly specific needle to keep its third ice dance spot (though the odds of that have shot way, way up based on F-B/S' first two events).

Apart from existing goodwill, the biggest advantage Gilles/Poirier have as far as momentum goes is that they've got a presumptive route to the Grand Prix Final, and barring some truly spectacular upsets, Fournier Beaudry/Sorensen do not. That matters.

All of which is to say, as of now I would say the Nationals race will be close enough that G/P couldn't afford to make any significant errors; more than that, I don't know.
 

starrynight

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And in this specific instance, Canada has to thread a fairly specific needle to keep its third ice dance spot (though the odds of that have shot way, way up based on F-B/S' first two events).
They'll need G/P and F-B/S to score at least 6th and 7th place by my calculations? I guess it makes sense to try to push both teams, because if one gets lost in the wash down in the placements, then there goes the 3rd spot.
 

Colonel Green

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They'll need G/P and F-B/S to score at least 6th and 7th place by my calculations? I guess it makes sense to try to push both teams, because if one gets lost in the wash down in the placements, then there goes the 3rd spot.
Yes, that's the minimum. Sixth is probably Piper & Paul's "natural" spot in the hierarchy, and I suspect they'd need mistakes from any of the five top teams to move above that -- which could certainly happen (eyes Zach and Nikita), but can't be counted on.

The second part is moving Laurence & Nikolaj from ninth (based on 2019 Worlds results with W/P removed) to seventh (or sixth; it's irrelevant for these purposes which team is sixth and which seventh). That means moving head of Hawayek/Baker or whoever else the American #3 ends up being, and the Italians; they just did the former pretty decisively, as I was kind of expecting they would, although not so rapidly. The latter, they came close to doing in the RD in Italy, so it's definitely viable.
 

firstflight

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If we're talking politicking, it's not like Marie-France Dubreuil lacks for muscle.

As far as the dynamics of the race, I think there's always a very complicated interplay between domestic and international scoring in ice dance -- mainly because with all the issues around team image, momentum, etc., no fed wants to undermine their existing top dog unless there's a strong case that this won't hurt the fed's position internationally (conversely, international judges often wait for movement domestically before altering the existing hierarchy). And in this specific instance, Canada has to thread a fairly specific needle to keep its third ice dance spot (though the odds of that have shot way, way up based on F-B/S' first two events).

Apart from existing goodwill, the biggest advantage Gilles/Poirier have as far as momentum goes is that they've got a presumptive route to the Grand Prix Final, and barring some truly spectacular upsets, Fournier Beaudry/Sorensen do not. That matters.

All of which is to say, as of now I would say the Nationals race will be close enough that G/P couldn't afford to make any significant errors; more than that, I don't know.
Last season, the Russia #1 spot seemed like it could solidify for S/B after Euros. But of course Worlds went the other direction. The Shibitanis victory over C/B in the 2016 US Championships went on to result in the S/S silver worlds medal.

The international panels have lifted F-B/S this season so far. It’ll be great to see how the rest of season works out.
 

Bigbird

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After the third review of P/C's program you finally GET IT!! That program is deliciously mezmerizing, the 4 minutes just fly.
 

Wyliefan

Trying to appease the skategods
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Always bearing in mind that it's early, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see FB/S win the short and G/P win the long at nationals. Neither of them has what I'd call a barn-burner of a long program, but I think G/P's ultimately has more potential. It was something of a letdown after "Vincent," but it's not such a bad program in itself.
 

casken

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Gosh, what a mesmerizing FD by P&C. I honestly thought it was going to be a bit cringey when the vocals first kicked in, but the whole effect is really something else. One of the only FDs this season that as soon as it ended, I immediately wanted to watch it again. Just give them the world title and send everyone else back to the drawing board.

Since there were comparisons to Blanc/Bouquet, I think B&B took a bit more risk with their music choice and some of the choreography, but obviously P&C have the skating/dance quality for the overall effect of their dance to be far greater.
 
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bcash

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302
I feel that ISU should consider trimming the list of dance patterns a bit. Finnstep for example has this antiquated and funny look, and weird as a vehicle for showcasing "skating" when skaters are hopping/galloping through it. Or just restore the Original Dance to its original form, and save us from all the ill-fitted patterns, mood and style-wise. I don't think the current format satisfies skating purists and it only confuses the casual viewer occasionally tuning in.

Ranting aside, I think S/K has the most well-rounded and tonally consistent RD this season, charming and delightful, and P/C has this deliciously campy program with a cleverly placed pattern. Smart/Diaz also cute. Frankly apart from these three I don't think I finished watching any RDs debuted so far, or even if I did I just can't recall what they were about.
 

Ka3sha

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So, we’ve already seen most of top teams programs, except for Stepanova/Bukin and Hubbel/Donohue (who will debut their programs at SA).

Right now I’d have ranked the programs this way (no specific order):
RD:
SinKats - charming, creates a great mood and also is a new direction for them)
Pap/Ciz - fun and a bit ironic, also something completely new for them
The Danadians - so mature, stylish and :swoon:

FD:
Pap/Ciz - innovative, sharp and just exquisite. Can’t wait to see it later in the season
Hurtado/Khaliavin - I just love Sara, she always creates such beautiful shapes and has nice and ‘clean’ lines. Kirill is not quite there yet, but their free dance has so much potential.

I find Chock/Bates FD interesting and unique , but , to be honest, to me this program is lacking some actual skating - she spends most of the time skating on two feet or while Evan is lifting/dragging her around.

I’d put Popova/Mozgov and Hawayek/Baker in a separate “guilty pleasure” category :rollin:


And a special shout-out to the junior GEO team :kickass:
Also, apparently , they are planning to do both juniors and seniors in the second half of the season, so we may also see them at Euros and Worlds
 
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barbarafan

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I think biggest news here is the sustained elevation in F-B/S’s scores compared to last season. Message is pretty clear: 1) there will be a fight for the national title this season; 2) both of Canada’s top 2 teams will likely remain ahead of US’s 3rd place team (if everyone skates clean)
hard to day....cdn domestic judges sway towards skate canada's chosen ones. Hard to rely on them. Our international judges are pretty good. I constantly look at how they score and normally are right in the middle. That is more important to me than the win.
 

Gris

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392
Speaking of guilty pleasure programs, I have to admit that I found myself enjoying both programs of Monaghan / Fourati :saint:

I’d put Kazakova / Reviya’s, and Guignard / Fabbri’s FDs in ‘I wish you’d used the original version’ category.
 
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wickedwitch

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I’d put Kazakova / Reviya’s, and Guignard / Fabbri’s FDs in ‘I wish you’d used the original version’ category.
Those are the two best FDs of the season. I'm glad they used which ever version allowed them to both be creative and adhere to ice dance rules.
 

Ka3sha

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I enjoyed Hawayek/Baker's FD. It's a bit weird, but not in a guilty pleasure category 🤷
I also enjoyed the dance, but for now something wasn’t working for me.
They reminded me of Helena Bonham Carter and Tim Burton a bit.
And it also feels a bit like a Spanish-themed Sofia Coppola’s Marie Antoinette 👸🏻
 

Ladida

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Hawyek/Baker's FD felt to me like someone was watching to many Skotnicky´s choreo before putting down together this program.
 

MarieM

Grumpy Cynical Ice Dance Lover
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Hawyek/Baker's FD felt to me like someone was watching to many Skotnicky´s choreo before putting down together this program.
I agree on that. That FD isn't doing them any favors. The costumes gave me hope they'd go the Austin Powers way.
Their RD on the other hand I love.
 

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