The Dance Hall 7: Tripping the Light Fantastic 2019-2020

Bigbird

Well-Known Member
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926
I think Chock/Bates are ones to watch this year love both programmes!
Truth.
Looking out for what H/D bring as well.

S/K's FD is an insult to our collective intelligence, no fault of their own it's just Zhulin's tactlessness per usual. How can you skate to programme that is so empty and repetitive and still score so ridiculously high?
 

casken

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,491
S/K's FD is an insult to our collective intelligence, no fault of their own it's just Zhulin's tactlessness per usual. How can you skate to programme that is so empty and repetitive and still score so ridiculously high?
"Our" collective intelligence? S&Ks FD is my second favorite FD this season out of the three actually watchable FDs this season. :lol:

Replace S&K with Ponomarenko and partner, and Zhulin with Shpiland. If they were from like, Germany, that FD would struggle to break 100, and no one would be pretending that program was any good.
 

muffinplus

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,135
"Our" collective intelligence? S&Ks FD is my second favorite FD this season out of the three actually watchable FDs this season. :lol:

Replace S&K with Ponomarenko and partner, and Zhulin with Shpiland. If they were from like, Germany, that FD would struggle to break 100, and no one would be pretending that program was any good.
Are you talking about the Flamenco FD?
 

lauravvv

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,531
"Our" collective intelligence? S&Ks FD is my second favorite FD this season out of the three actually watchable FDs this season. :lol:

Replace S&K with Ponomarenko and partner, and Zhulin with Shpiland. If they were from like, Germany, that FD would struggle to break 100, and no one would be pretending that program was any good.
I agree with your first sentence - no one can speek for other people like that. I even like S/K's FD, although it's definitely not one of my favorites.

I also don't find Carreira/Ponomarenko's FD all that great, but, even in ice dancing, skills (skating skills, elements etc.) count for something, so it's not all about the program itself and whether you personally like it.
 
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happycamper2554

Active Member
Messages
132
I agree with your first sentence - no one can speek for other people like that. I even like S/K's FD, although it's definitely not one of my favorites.

I also don't find Carreira/Ponomarenko's all that great, but, even in ice dancing, skills (skating skills, elements etc.) count for something, so it's not all about the program itself and whether you personally like it.
I like S/K FD but i feel like it could be great. it seems like they spent the past couple weeks changing there RD for the better so I suspect we will see a changed program for COC. This is of course the advantage of competing early.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,761
For the FD among the senior dance teams, I love Guignard & Fabbri's. (FDs generally need more time to cook).

Among the junior teams, I love the first 3/4ths of Shanaeva & Narizhnyy's. I also think Wolfkostin & Chen's and the Browns' are coming along. I like Makita & Gunara's. I think Kazakova & Reviya's is a nice change for them.
 

Gris

Well-Known Member
Messages
122
Insult to intelligence? I mean, calm down, this is only a figure skating program. :lol:

But honestly, S/K FD is pretty boring. They probably have other priorities though, since IIRC Zhulin once said that this kind of music 'tamed' Nikita so can't blame them for playing it safe.

CPom FD is ... better than what I've expected. However I still don't think these two are mature enough for a flamenco program.

ETA: found the Zhulin interview


From my past experience working with the guys, I realized a very important thing: if Katsalapov skates very emotionally, as he likes and can, sometimes this leads to unpredictable consequences in competitions. That’s why, from the very beginning I was looking for such a music for the free program in which Nikita wouldn’t “jump out of his pants” and wouldn’t rush.
I often think that S/K should try to do a dramatic program which would suit them (especially him) better than what they're doing now since somehow Nikita always looks like a troubled soul on ice to me. But if this leads to 'unpredictable consequences' ... then probably not.
 
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Dobre

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5,761
I think Zhulin looked at 24 classic Montreal Mush programs, told himself this is what people like in Montreal, and choreographed the program for the audience at Worlds.
 

Bigbird

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926
I think Zhulin looked at 24 classic Montreal Mush programs, told himself this is what people like in Montreal, and choreographed the program for the audience at Worlds.
If he looked at the Gadbois group carefully he'd understand that change has come. He's the one stuck in a rut.
 

Colonel Green

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,319
I think Zhulin looked at 24 classic Montreal Mush programs, told himself this is what people like in Montreal, and choreographed the program for the audience at Worlds.
I don't see much of any resemblance between Z/K's free programs and Gadbois.
 

Bigbird

Well-Known Member
Messages
926
I don't see much of any resemblance between Z/K's free programs and Gadbois.
You are quite right about them being Zhulin/Katsalapov programs. He's not interested in Gadbois in general just cloning as much as possible P/C down to the facial hair and hand movements. It's hilarious watching them try though. :rofl:
 

escaflowne9282

Reformed Manspreader
Messages
3,220
I think Zhulin looked at 24 classic Montreal Mush programs, told himself this is what people like in Montreal, and choreographed the program for the audience at Worlds.
S&K are a talented and much improved team, but to me this present FD fits the bill of a "lyrical snot" program far moreso than anything P&C or anyone else from Gadbois can be accused of ever having done. It's so generic and boring. Even worse, I don't think that they do that style nearly as well.

They really should be going down the dramatic route or doing a character portrayal. Their last two RDs have been terrific and for me it's evident that the ability to naturally project and work within a structured phrasing is there. I'm very perplexed by Zhulin . He competed in an era generic was the last thing you could call a Russian FD :confused:
 

Michalle

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1,737
if a program that would be viewed as thirty seconds to a minute of good trashy fun but that no one would consider a medal contender if some random OES team was skating it and skating to an Instagram poet’s poor man’s bukowski impression is pushing the sport forward...

I wish Zhulin would do something more interesting for S/K too but it’s irritating to see increasingly hysterical comments by one poster that are more motivated by insecurity over P/C than a sincere interest in S/K and what they are doing.
 

Eisfee

Well-Known Member
Messages
232
It's always the same hate and complain about S/K on their programs, costumes, skating etc.! I don't get it. Just enjoy the teams you like and you really interested in. If you don't like S/K just ignore them. You don't have to watch them.
Everyone has their own taste and favourites.
All the skaters dedicate their lifes to the sport, working hard and show us their passion. All in different ways and was is possible for them.
We should never forget that!
 

Bigbird

Well-Known Member
Messages
926
if a program that would be viewed as thirty seconds to a minute of good trashy fun but that no one would consider a medal contender if some random OES team was skating it and skating to an Instagram poet’s poor man’s bukowski impression is pushing the sport forward...

I wish Zhulin would do something more interesting for S/K too but it’s irritating to see increasingly hysterical comments by one poster that are more motivated by insecurity over P/C than a sincere interest in S/K and what they are doing.
What is there to be insecure about with respect to P/C? S/K's Singing in the Rain is so reminiscent of B/S one could cry, they need to study Kurt's Browning's take and learn how to dance. As for the FD when did crossovers become the new transition? The FD is full of them, excessive over-emoting and lifts that were done better with his previous partner in 2014. On the knee lift he practically has to use both hands to get her up, why not find something else that works well? And again these questions are not for them but Zhulin.
 

bcash

Active Member
Messages
201
I think Zhulin looked at 24 classic Montreal Mush programs, told himself this is what people like in Montreal, and choreographed the program for the audience at Worlds.
Such a lazy and misleading term. Programs that might be called "mushy" from all teams Gadbois over the last four years can be counted with one hand at most. People are so easy to subscribe to fuzzy group-think. The "mushiest" FD of the last few years from top 10 couples is Gilles/Poirier's Vincent program.

And to say S/K's FD resembles some over-generalized "Montreal" style is just as lazy. Someone above mentioned they needed more drama. Well the music, two of the most beautiful pieces from a master composer of the Romantic period, does open up the space for drama, in the sense that it evokes real worlds: places, people, relationships, collective and personal memories, the passing of worldly time, etc. And all of those flash up here and there in the FD, the character steps being one example. (And they certainly can go much deeper and more varied in their expression). It doesn't have the innocent freedom of the Mozart program from P/C or the formal purity of their Beethoven program, and much less abstract, or some would say, "warmer" by comparison (To cite two recent programs using classical pieces).

To me S/K's programs are born out of a more old-school approach, with less emphasis on "concept", and less intellectualized, but rather building off of a conventionally definable world of feelings, yet made modern through not explicitly spelling out the "story" and also through their natural fast and powerful skating. In that sense, quite Russian, but a lot more interesting than their teammates S/B, who swing from the mushiest of the mush to flashy and unconvincing posturing season to season.
 
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thvudragon

Usova's Apprentice
Messages
4,537
I wish Zhulin would do something more interesting for S/K too but it’s irritating to see increasingly hysterical comments by one poster that are more motivated by insecurity over P/C than a sincere interest in S/K and what they are doing.
Who is the one poster you keep referring to?

It's almost as if you aren't aware of the horrible Zhulin programs from the last two quads. Why do the two have to be connected? People have been complaining about S&K's Zhulin programs for years, before they were medal contenders.

Edit: Literally, people have been complaining about Zhulin's choreography since he coached Navka. And how can anyone forget the WTF Sexy Zombies Long Program he made for the Zhangs?
 

Gris

Well-Known Member
Messages
122
If you're so irritated by Bigbird's comments you can simply put her/him on ignore. This is what the function is for.

By the way, I see the Uber Matrix is working again! ;)
 

muffinplus

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,135
If you're so irritated by Bigbird's comments you can simply put her/him on ignore. This is what the function is for.

By the way, I see the Uber Matrix are working again! ;)
I already did as she goes into hysterical rants seemingly every time S&K skate , this season, bringing up P&C copying almost every time... (that said, even though the best thing is to put her on ignore, what Michalle posted needed to be said ;))

I mean I think their FD is rather bland and don't like what Zhulin does for them but...
 
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escaflowne9282

Reformed Manspreader
Messages
3,220
Edit: Literally, people have been complaining about Zhulin's choreography since he coached Navka. And how can anyone forget the WTF Sexy Zombies Long Program he made for the Zhangs?
Sexy Crossovers :scream:
I think the only FD I have liked from Zhulin in the past 15 years is the Chaplin routine for Pechalat and Bourzat (and even that was similar to the superior Circus routine they had done 2 years prior)
 

Ladida

Active Member
Messages
225
Btw what is the story S/K are trying to portray in their FD? Is it about remembering your dead love or something completely else?
 

Ka3sha

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,565
I don't think Zhulin's programs are usually that awful - of course, he had several big misses (Bobrova/Soloviev's FD in 2014 being the biggest one), but the same can be said about most top coaches - Shpilband, Krylova, Morozov, Zhuk and even Zueva..
Montreal team is usually an exception, but don't forget that Hubbell/Donohue's R&J program also came from that coaching team :shuffle:

As for SinKats, I truly enjoy their Rhythm Dance, it is one of my favorite s so far. I don't think that it's a better program than P/C's one (which I also enjoy) or that they can challenge the French with this program. Most importantly for them, their RD can help them to ensure their #2/#3 position in the World. Yes, we haven't seen Stepanova/Bukin and Hubbell/Donohue yet but given their music choices (H/D) and some technical limitations (S/B), I highly doubt that they will have better rhythm dances (with better scoring potential) than what we have seen from SinKats.

I also hoped for something different for Victoria/Nikita this season - either a classical blues or some true Russian drama. Their current Free Dance is on the line between being completely boring and quite catchy. In the beginning of the season it is definitely closer to the former one, but as the season progresses and when they add cleanliness to their movements, speed and power the program may look much better, especially from the arena.
That's why I believe that in the end teams like SinKats and Hubbell/Donohue will always have an edge over other teams like Chock/Bates or Gilles/Poirier, who may have more interesting choreo but lack some quality and skating skills.
Still hate that straight line 'knee' lift and hope they change it, though..
 
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cocotaffy

One, two, three, stretch
Messages
6,086
Shocking news out of Hollywood, the Wachowskis sisters are taking everyone by surprise: "the Uber Matrix" is to be the title of their upcoming fourth installment of the Matrix series set in the unforgiving world of figure skating fans. Starring P/C, the golden couple trying to change the mere fabric of the Ice dance Matrix thanks to a trashy yet chic attempt at Fame and a cloying yet somehow mesmerizing slam dunk poetry. Featuring S/K, the redeemed couple taking over Russian ice dance one RD at a time yet near missing their FDs (at least for now). And the US and Canadian ice dance scene full of intrigue and potential upsets: will twos become the new ones? Supporting roles by Marie-France Dubreuil as Oracle and Romain Hagenauer as Morpheus. Of course, Carol Lane as Agent Smith along with Zhulin as Agent Brown and the fans as all the agent clones.
 
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Michalle

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,737
You are all going to regret encouraging Zhulin to indulge himself, next season he should have S/K tell the story of his own fateful love triangle, with Nikita as himself and Victoria as both Usova and Pasha.
 

cocotaffy

One, two, three, stretch
Messages
6,086
You are all going to regret encouraging Zhulin to indulge himself, next season he should have S/K tell the story of his own fateful love triangle, with Nikita as himself and Victoria as both Usova and Pasha.
That would be all kind of awesome. My own matrix would explode 😎
 

Ka3sha

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,565
You are all going to regret encouraging Zhulin to indulge himself, next season he should have S/K tell the story of his own fateful love triangle, with Nikita as himself and Victoria as both Usova and Pasha.
Or they can just skate to Swan Lake and Norma in the free dance and invite Ruslan and Elena to sit with them in K&C :saint:


Speaking of Ruslan, I just came across this today’s photo from Mezzaluna Cup:

Looks like he has become quite an active part of Krylova’s coaching team
 

MarieM

Grumpy Cynical Ice Dance Lover
Messages
9,339
You are all going to regret encouraging Zhulin to indulge himself, next season he should have S/K tell the story of his own fateful love triangle, with Nikita as himself and Victoria as both Usova and Pasha.
That would make my day :cheer2: :40beers:
 
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