The Dance Hall 7: Tripping the Light Fantastic 2019-2020

[Peepsquick]

I wonder how much bigger something like Gadbois can feasibly get?

I suppose they would need a constant feed of either elite talent into the school who have the financial backing for comprehensive training or alternatively a lot of kids whose parents are willing to pay for junior development. Particularly if they are solely doing ice dance and not singles or pairs. The key thing for them is to make sure by all means possible that P/C continue to train there for the rest of their competitive careers.

Although, the idea of doing travelling seminars does make a lot of sense. They could contract new coaching staff to do those under the brand name of the academy and it would have zero impact on the day to day of the actual training base. And then would also provide a solid line of work in the future when inevitably, the training fashion changes.

It's an interesting concept having one school more or less have an entire monopoly over ice dance training. Make hay while the sun shines, I guess!

I'm not sure that this is the idea behind the concept. They are striving to offer a holistic approach and support to athletes at every stage of their career, including the end of it. Opening up to train new coaches who may have their own school later on is not a bad idea either: they have a lot to offer and are willing to share their experience. Their skaters including Gabi and Guillaume are already offering sporadic seminars in different countries.
I share your fear of an overgrown organization though.

 

[starrynight]

I think that it’s better for the sport and athletes to have a variety of elite training options.

I think there would be a lot of negative side effects if Gadbois became the only real elite training option in North America. Teams who didn’t suit the training style or wanted a change or maybe had a negative interaction there would have no where to really go. Same if the centre decided for various political reasons not to let a team in. I don’t know if having one place have such a far reaching control over the discipline and the destiny of ice dancers is exactly an entirely good thing.

Thank goodness that all the coaches there seem to be good natured, benevolent and have the skaters’ interests at heart because in the wrong hands that kind of ultimate power and control could be a negative thing for skaters and the sport.

A lot of coaches can be quite protectionist and won’t let in competitors for their top teams. I imagine this could be particularly the case for teams who have been loyal to the remaining small training camps. There could easily be teams with no options if they want a change.

 

[Peepsquick]

I think that it’s better for the sport and athletes to have a variety of elite training options.

I think there would be a lot of negative side effects if Gadbois became the only real elite training option in North America. Teams who didn’t suit the training style or wanted a change or maybe had a negative interaction there would have no where to really go. Same if the centre decided for various political reasons not to let a team in. I don’t know if having one place have such a far reaching control over the discipline and the destiny of ice dancers is exactly an entirely good thing.

Thank goodness that all the coaches there seem to be good natured, benevolent and have the skaters’ interests at heart because in the wrong hands that kind of ultimate power and control could be a negative thing for skaters and the sport.

As I said, I doubt they want to have the monopole of Ice Dance. Their success is partly due to their engagement to offer their athletes more than just lessons and also to the very healthy and collegial atmosphere of the center. There will always be other options and good so!

 

[barbarafan]

I'm not sure that this is the idea behind the concept. They are striving to offer a holistic approach and support to athletes at every stage of their career, including the end of it. Opening up to train new coaches who may have their own school later on is not a bad idea either: they have a lot to offer and are willing to share their experience. Their skaters including Gabi and Guillaume are already offering sporadic seminars in different countries.
I share your fear of an overgrown organization though.

They have been adding likeminded coaching staff to their team and specialists in all areas. Other than the main Gaddbois rink they have icetime at least one other rink closeby. Going by instagram it seems at times there are practices in ST.Constant just off the island where there is a 3 rink facility. They also said in the announcement that could add more gradually - maybe former students. Now they have students from 11 different countries training there. They intend to pass on all the skills needed to coach or run their own schools in their respective countries when they are done competing if they so wish. They are not trying to take over other schools. They only have I believe 3 cdn.senior teams and not many cdn juniors right now. They are giving back to the sport.....not smothering it

 

[gk_891]

This has nothing to do with modern day ice dance, but @gk_891, this picture makes me way too happy:

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Sorry I'm late to respond (I've been away for the last while) but that's a nice photo. I think they made amends not that long after Nagano. I guess that's not surprising as they've known each other since Grishuk was a little girl.

Thanks for drawing my attention to it

 

[suki]

Sorry I'm late to respond (I've been away for the last while) but that's a nice photo. I think they made amends not that long after Nagano. I guess that's not surprising as they've known each other since Grishuk was a little girl.

Thanks for drawing my attention to it

Linichuk looks fabulous. The woman does not age.

 

[aml78]

The key thing for them is to make sure by all means possible that P/C continue to train there for the rest of their competitive careers

I cannot imagine P/C making a change any time soon. I think what MF, Patch and Romain are doing is securing their future once this huge crop of seniors retire. They are trying to ensure they stay relevant and aren’t just a coaching fad. Smart move on their part. My guess is they will build up at Gadbois but will eventually secure their own facility.

 

[puglover]

I believe Patrice and Marie France retired around 2008 and I recall an interview Patrice gave about wanting to start a real dance center in Canada so that ice dancers would not have to leave Canada to train. It is really quite amazing what they have accomplished in a little over 10 years. Not sure whether their plan was always to have such an international appeal or that just happened with the addition of Romain and the success of P/C. Anyway, they have shown it can be done and hopefully encourages some of their students to follow in their footsteps when they retire.

 

[nuge]

Linichuk looks fabulous. The woman does not age.

I think that's an old pic as Skyler Grace is older than that.

 

[Ka3sha]

ETA: Aren`t the Russian Senior Test Skates next week? Hopefully all ice dancers will attend, especially Skoptcova/Aleshin. With the exception of a few posts on Instagram by Anastasia, it has been pretty quiet around them.

Skoptsova posted a pic from Novogorsk, so we can assume that they are at the national camp right now and should be at the test skates this weekend.

I think that's an old pic as Skyler Grace is older than that.

She still looks great

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[mollymgr]

Marie France does choreography for singles skaters too e.g. Nathan Chen. She is definitely a busy woman. I wonder if the scope expands to being a site for offering choreography for external skaters of all disciplines or if that is something that is always understood.

 

[sap5]

I wonder how much bigger something like Gadbois can feasibly get?

I suppose they would need a constant feed of either elite talent into the school who have the financial backing for comprehensive training or alternatively a lot of kids whose parents are willing to pay for junior development. Particularly if they are solely doing ice dance and not singles or pairs. The key thing for them is to make sure by all means possible that P/C continue to train there for the rest of their competitive careers.

Although, the idea of doing travelling seminars does make a lot of sense. They could contract new coaching staff to do those under the brand name of the academy and it would have zero impact on the day to day of the actual training base. And then would also provide a solid line of work in the future when inevitably, the training fashion changes.

It's an interesting concept having one school more or less have an entire monopoly over ice dance training. Make hay while the sun shines, I guess!

I think part of the academy would be to establish developmental centers that could feed into the elite school.

 

[starrynight]

Not sure whether their plan was always to have such an international appeal or that just happened with the addition of Romain and the success of P/C.

I guess it needs to have an international appeal on the scale they are talking about, because there are only a very limited number of ice dance teams within Canada who are eligible for the funding which would enable them to have the elite training that costs in the vicinity of $10k per month and necessitates in-house specialists for things like mental coaching etc.

The training camps that are more solely Canadian tend to mostly focus on the development of local junior teams.

The reason camps like Sambo 70 can churn through so many students so quickly at a high elite level is that the turn-over of success in ladies singles is so fast. World Champ at 15, retired at 18 etc, next girl stand up. Whereas in dance, the same three or four teams tend to block off the national podium for about a decade, creating a log jam at the top.

Although, in Canada the field is now more open in dance than its been in years, so there are more incentives for more dance teams to believe they can get to worlds etc.

 

[MarieM]

Well Russia is gunning for Gold at next olys, so ugly politics will come into play. Start watching them gun for it, openly. It's gonna make things very interesting if they do it and Nikita does a Nikita.

 

[mjb52]

Unlike other countries, who do not care about their results at all, and live in an ethereal world of skating purely for the love of it, free of politics or the unseemly desire for medals.

 

[VGThuy]

Unlike other countries, who do not care about their results at all, and live in an ethereal world of skating purely for the love of it, free of politics or the unseemly desire for medals.

I think there’s this perception promoted by some fans that France doesn’t care about results. I think that’s just a defensive mechanism for reported mismanagement. I mean obviously Papadakis/Cizeron and James/Cipres very much care about their results. That said, I remember the Brit Eurosport commentators talking about Americans looking disappointed with silver (the Shibs) and then proceeded to go on about Americans and how the only results that matter to them is gold. Maybe there is something to the differences in mentality if they say it like that.

 

[vanillashake]

Russia will probably be happy trying for silver and bronze the next 3 years. If Papadakis & Cizeron retire after the 2022 worlds they will start to go for gold after that. If they don't, then they will be tired of waiting and push the political game hard and desperately.

 

[vanillashake]

I think there’s this perception promoted by some fans that France doesn’t care about results. I think that’s just a defensive mechanism for reported mismanagement. I mean obviously Papadakis/Cizeron and James/Cipres very much care about their results. That said, I remember the Brit Eurosport commentators talking about Americans looking disappointed with silver (the Shibs) and then proceeded to go on about Americans and how the only results that matter to them is gold. Maybe there is something to the differences in mentality if they say it like that.

They said that about Belbin & Agosto at the 2006 Olympics too which was just bizarre. Everyone (including B&A) knew Navka & Kostomarov were a 95% lock for gold, and they were 1 of just 5 or 6 teams in an almost even fight for silver and bronze. They were extremely happy and thrilled with silver, but the Eurosport commentators just went on with a made up story how bitterly dissapointed with silver they supposably were.

 

[platniumangel]

They said that about Belbin & Agosto at the 2006 Olympics too which was just bizarre. Everyone (including B&A) knew Navka & Kostomarov were a 95% lock for gold, and they were 1 of just 5 or 6 teams in an almost even fight for silver and bronze. They were extremely happy and thrilled with silver, but the Eurosport commentators just went on with a made up story how bitterly dissapointed with silver they supposably were.

I think they were very happy with the silver medal. So weird they would make that comment!

 

[taz'smum]

Russia will probably be happy trying for silver and bronze the next 3 years. If Papadakis & Cizeron retire after the 2022 worlds they will start to go for gold after that. If they don't, then they will be tired of waiting and push the political game hard and desperately.

Nope, Russia is gunning for Gold in ice dance, it wants its Ice dance crown back!

 

[Barbara Manatee]

That said, I remember the Brit Eurosport commentators talking about Americans looking disappointed with silver (the Shibs) and then proceeded to go on about Americans and how the only results that matter to them is gold. Maybe there is something to the differences in mentality if they say it like that.

That reflects the mentality of the Brit Eurosport commentators more than the Americans'. In between B/A and the Shibs, they also decided amongst themselves that Davis/White were hugely disappointed not to win in Vancouver. Totally invented it, then spent the entire next year repeating how bitter D/W were to only get silver.

 

[vanillashake]

Nope, Russia is gunning for Gold in ice dance, it wants its Ice dance crown back!

Well it will have to wait. Papadakis & Cizeron are unbeatable until atleast 2022. The gap is just too big. They could literally not improve at all and Sinitsina & Katsalapov (currently the better of the 2 excellent Russian teams) could improve by a good margin every one of the remaining 3 years, and they still would not quite catch them, and the likelihoood of P&C not improving is super low.

They have better Russian teams than they had last 2 quads with freaking Bobrova & Soloviev (LOL) as their #1 though so they are the right track to eventually regain their ice dance maybe.

 

[vanillashake]

I think they were very happy with the silver medal. So weird they would make that comment!

Yeah I am just saying that goes along with VGThuy's comment that Europeans seem to have the attitude Americans only ever care about winning. Here is where I think the comments were:

2006 Olympics Ice Dance Medal Ceremony

20.02.2006г. Турин. Награждение!

www.youtube.com

It is utterly comical especialy when you look at their reactions from 0:50. What idiot commentary.

 

[taz'smum]

Well it will have to wait. Papadakis & Cizeron are unbeatable until atleast 2022. The gap is just too big. They could literally not improve at all and Sinitsina & Katsalapov (currently the better of the 2 excellent Russian teams) could improve by a good margin every one of the remaining 3 years, and they still would not quite catch them, and the likelihoood of P&C not improving is super low.

They have better Russian teams than they had last 2 quads with freaking Bobrova & Soloviev (LOL) as their #1 though so they are the right track to eventually regain their ice dance maybe.

I agree with what you are saying, as PC seem to be in a league of their own, but things can and do change, so I reserve judgement until we see how SK come out this season. In all my years in skating, I have learnt one thing, expect the unexpected!

 

[marbri]

2006 Olympics Ice Dance Medal Ceremony

20.02.2006г. Турин. Награждение!

www.youtube.com

It is utterly comical especialy when you look at their reactions from 0:50. What idiot commentary.

My god Grushina's FD outfit is a nightmare blast from the past

 

[Holy Headband]

I agree with what you are saying, as PC seem to be in a league of their own, but things can and do change, so I reserve judgement until we see how SK come out this season. In all my years in skating, I have learnt one thing, expect the unexpected!

Yeah, Papadakis/Cizeron do look unbeatable right now, but I just can't imagine the power dynamics in ice dance remaining the same for another 3 years.

I think their recent supremacy can be attributed partly to the slow generational turnover in ice dance that happened between the Sochi and Pyeongchang Olympics. The last quad felt really transitional to me. In the absence of other truly formidable couples, with the obvious exception of V/M, P/C kind of became the team to beat by default. I think the sport is finally waking up now, and other couples around the world are starting to up their game and test their limits. I'll be surprised if none of them manages to shake things up at least once before P/C retire.

 

[vanillashake]

Yeah, Papadakis/Cizeron do look unbeatable right now, but I just can't imagine the power dynamics in ice dance remaining the same for another 3 years.

That is actually more typical to happen in dance than any of the other 3 disciplines. By FAR. It isn't as much or as bad now as it used to be with the same top 7 in exact order for an entire quad, but even today dance changes less frequently than other events. A lot of that the obvious that mistakes are rarer and decline in status and reputation that goes along with a couple bad competitions is also much rarer.

 

[VGThuy]

I think it seems like there were huge changes in ice dance for the past quad because we are simply not used to seeing the sort of shifts that we've seen from 2009-to-2018. Of course it seems the bronze medal placements always seemed more-or-less open but in 2018, it seemed opened to like 4-5 teams as opposed to the usual 1-2.

 

[vanillashake]

I think it seems like there were huge changes in ice dance for the past quad because we are simply not used to seeing the sort of shifts that we've seen from 2009-to-2018. Of course it seems the bronze medal placements always seemed more-or-less open but in 2018, it seemed opened to like 4-5 teams as opposed to the usual 1-2.

I don't really agree. It seemed the Shibutanis were all but locked into the bronze spot the final 2 seasons of the quad, except the last half season where Hubbell & Donohue were legitimate challengers to them for that. Nobody thought going into the Games that Weaver & Poje, Chock & Bates, Capellini & Lanotte, or Bobrova & Soloviev had a prayer to actually win the bronze. Same even going into the 2017 worlds and that includes H&D for that event, that H&D ended up having a real shot at the bronze was a total surprise there. The Shibutanis were actually closer to Papadakis & Cizeron (who were struggling a bit that season) than others seemed to be to the Shibutanis going into the 2017 worlds.

Most significantly that Hubbell & Donohue had their disaesterous Olympic FD that cost them the bronze, or atleast their shot at the bronze, with atleast 2 major mistakes, and still took 4th when everyone else of note but Chock & Bates were perfect, emphasizes what non contenders everyone else after those 4 were.

 

[starrynight]

It's always interesting to go and look at the results over the years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Figure_Skating_Championships#Ice_dancing

Seems to me like the period of 2007 to 2010 was probably the most interesting in terms of active rise and flux of ice dance results.

There was also repeated occasions where the whole world podium literally stayed exactly the same for entire quads. (Which must have been pretty soporific)

Which honestly makes you wonder, because it's statistically unlikely that the same teams all compete to the exact level under pressure every year for four years. But lol I think we already knew that.

Who knows, maybe some of the younger teams could surprise us (a bit like the way Virtue/Moir and Davis/White rose from juniors to the Olympic podium over the 2006-2010 period). lol Or maybe not. On the balance of probabilities, unless politics takes a turn, the status quo will probably maintain. The only thing that could change the status quo is probably a team creating a lot of excitement.

The frustrating thing about ice dance is that there is no technical advances that top teams who are miles ahead of the pack can use to push themselves. Instead it's just years of treading water till the gold at the Olympics.