The Dance Hall 6: We're All Off Our Rockers 2018-2019

[sharsk8s]

Dostani on the tech panel P&C better be on there game here , one of the few callers who doesn't ignore their mistakes.

Is Dostani just unbiased and equally tough on everyone? Or is he particullarly harsh on P/C?

Also I don't know much about how the politics work in ice dance, but the panel seems fairly balanced to me. Somewhere a while ago I read that it was a pro-russia panel (particularly pro-zhulin) but I don't know how they came to that conclusion

 

[yurokis40]

last time he was on the panel he hammered them in the sd and fd at nhk 2016 and worlds sd 2017 but of course they made mistakes and that was 2 years ago they should be ok if they skate well.

 

[Tak]

If that's what he's doing, then I think it's exactly what he should do - a judge should follow the rules. If skaters make mistakes, they SHOULD lose points - no matter who they are. As long as he applies the same standard to everyone, I have no problem with a judge being strict about levels.

 

[sharsk8s]

last time he was on the panel he hammered them in the sd and fd at nhk 2016 and worlds sd 2017 but of course they made mistakes and that was 2 years ago they should be ok if they skate well.

I also think then it was more okay back then since they weren't the clear front runners with tessa and scott being back and them having rough skates that whole year. Now if he judges them harshly then the rest will suffer just as much. No one can deny that they are significantly stronger in most aspects then their competitors.

 

[sharsk8s]

If that's what he's doing, then I think it's exactly what he should do - a judge should follow the rules. If skaters make mistakes, they SHOULD lose points - no matter who they are. As long as he applies the same standard to everyone, I have no problem with a judge being strict about levels.

I agree. I don't mind if you judge anyone harshly as long as everyone is judged just as critically.

 

[sharsk8s]

Also on the topic of judging it looks like the panel at worlds is more eastern european, again I don't really know what that means or what role that will play.

 

[VGThuy]

Is Dostani just unbiased and equally tough on everyone? Or is he particullarly harsh on P/C?

Also I don't know much about how the politics work in ice dance, but the panel seems fairly balanced to me. Somewhere a while ago I read that it was a pro-russia panel (particularly pro-zhulin) but I don't know how they came to that conclusion

He's a tough caller for everyone.

 

[starrynight]

I also think then it was more okay back then since they weren't the clear front runners with tessa and scott being back and them having rough skates that whole year. Now if he judges them harshly then the rest will suffer just as much. No one can deny that they are significantly stronger in most aspects then their competitors.

These days everyone needs to hold their breath while every team does the two tango Romantica patterns

 

[MarieM]

I agree. I don't mind if you judge anyone harshly as long as everyone is judged just as critically.

And that isn't what Dostani's doing. He's harsh with those he doesn't favor and closes his eyes on his pet favorites. Used to be all of Igor's team that were his favorites, ignoring their mistakes to favor those of others.
This guy shouldn't be able to be a controller or a caller.

 

[Dobre]

Scores were tight all the way down the line at the 2017 Worlds. If you go back & watch it--which, sorry, I am not up for, LOL--you will see disappointment when the scores come up from pretty much the bottom teams up through the top. Happy faces were in very short supply by the end of that competition. Same at Skate America last season, which he also called. Not particularly this season, though, where he was the AT. And definitely not at the 2016 Worlds where scores soared during the FD and he was also the AT. It depends on the mix of both the whole tech & the judging panel, and the performances of the day.

No one can deny that they are significantly stronger in most aspects then their competitors.

"No one" statements are like "Never" and "Always" in figure skating. There is no such thing. (Zhulin & Shpilband alone have always been quite happy to dispute this one, being such unbiased observers, of course). P&C went into the 2017 Worlds having lost the SD to four teams internationally that season, btw: Virtue & Moir, the Shibs, Bobrova & Soloviev, & Cappellini & Lanotte. This season they have only had one outing in international competition, an at-home event where their closest competition did not even qualify for Worlds last season and the next closest finished ninth at the Olympic Games. We're really only assuming that P&C can't be challenged in the RD because of last season, the scores in that one competition, and because we know how competive Sinitsina & Katsalapov have been with most of the field this season (though their scores have been more competitive in the free). It's a well-educated assumption on our part, but it's an assumption nonetheless.

Note: Out of curiosity, I went back and looked at the scores from 2016-17 IDF and the 2017 Worlds. At IDF, P&C outscored Hubbell & Donohue by 9 1/2 points in the SD. At Worlds they outscored H&D by 0.36.

 

[MarieM]

The thing is H&D have done themselves no favor chosing those programs they skate to. Hard to politik with that kind of material. Let's hope the worked out program will be better this week. IMO they could be overtaken by Weaver&Poje, Vika&Nikita and the italians. Not only in the RD but especially in the FD.

Russia is going to politik heavily for Nikita. Until he does what he does best. I sure hope he'll hold it together at least once more. The only time he did was Sotchi. 5 years ago. And junior worlds.

Dobre I disagree about Dostani. This man has fixed Ice dance from 2003 to 2014. All by himself, anytime he was THE technical caller. And that he was friendlier with some coaches was well known and documented. He's a crook in my eyes and nearly destroyed the sport all by his doings. I'm so glad he wasn't invited to score many events these past 5 years, I sure hope he doesn't come back. The +5 GOE is already doing a lot of harm.

 

[Dobre]

I don't have an opinion about Dostatni. I didn't care for the judging in general at the 2017 Worlds, but that was such an awful event on pretty much every level that I have shelved it with Torino as "disasters in history never to be rewatched." I haven't particularly disagreed with the marking in any of the other events listed above. He's not one of the easier callers, I'll say that. I figured he was going to show up on a panel at some point this post season because he hasn't done anything since SA. He didn't show Sinitsina & Katsalapov any love last season at SA. This year, the panel at SA marked Guignard & Fabbri pretty much the way they've been marked all season. I've never seen any indication that he adored Stepanova & Bukin. So if he has "pets," I don't think there's any sign they are among the contenders at Europeans. The only Shpilband team at either SA or Europeans is Tweedale & Buckland, who have actually been more competitive in the RD at pretty much every competition other than Skate America this season. Anyway, I guess if I was worried about Dostatni supporting Shpilband's teams, I would be grateful that Dostatni is coming to Europeans rather than going to Worlds or 4CCs (where it appears Shpilband might show up with W&P). I do think I would be a bit worried having Dostatni on the panel if I were Fear & Gibson or any other team that has been bombing their pattern levels.

 

[sharsk8s]

Scores were tight all the way down the line at the 2017 Worlds. If you go back & watch it--which, sorry, I am not up for, LOL--you will see disappointment when the scores come up from pretty much the bottom teams up through the top. Happy faces were in very short supply by the end of that competition. Same at Skate America last season, which he also called. Not particularly this season, though, where he was the AT. And definitely not at the 2016 Worlds where scores soared during the FD and he was also the AT. It depends on the mix of both the whole tech & the judging panel, and the performances of the day.



"No one" statements are like "Never" and "Always" in figure skating. There is no such thing. (Zhulin & Shpilband alone have always been quite happy to dispute this one, being such unbiased observers, of course). P&C went into the 2017 Worlds having lost the SD to four teams internationally that season, btw: Virtue & Moir, the Shibs, Bobrova & Soloviev, & Cappellini & Lanotte. This season they have only had one outing in international competition, an at-home event where their closest competition did not even qualify for Worlds last season and the next closest finished ninth at the Olympic Games. We're really only assuming that P&C can't be challenged in the RD because of last season, the scores in that one competition, and because we know how competive Sinitsina & Katsalapov have been with most of the field this season (though their scores have been more competitive in the free). It's a well-educated assumption on our part, but it's an assumption nonetheless.

Note: Out of curiosity, I went back and looked at the scores from 2016-17 IDF and the 2017 Worlds. At IDF, P&C outscored Hubbell & Donohue by 9 1/2 points in the SD. At Worlds they outscored H&D by 0.36.

P/C had a really rough SD at worlds in 2017. I don't remember exactly what happened but I know guillaume cut his hand and needed stitches and I think they had a bunch of mistakes throughout.

It was wrong of me to say "no one", thats not true.
I think that S/K have a better chance of closing the gap with P/C in the RD because theirs is really strong in my opinion, especially if they get their levels.

 

[yurokis40]

I don't have an opinion about Dostatni. I didn't care for the judging in general at the 2017 Worlds, but that was such an awful event on pretty much every level that I have shelved it with Torino as "disasters in history never to be rewatched." I haven't particularly disagreed with the marking in any of the other events listed above. He's not one of the easier callers, I'll say that. I figured he was going to show up on a panel at some point this post season because he hasn't done anything since SA. He didn't show Sinitsina & Katsalapov any love last season at SA. This year, the panel at SA marked Guignard & Fabbri pretty much the way they've been marked all season. I've never seen any indication that he adored Stepanova & Bukin. So if he has "pets," I don't think there's any sign they are among the contenders at Europeans. The only Shpilband team at either SA or Europeans is Tweedale & Buckland, who have actually been more competitive in the RD at pretty much every competition other than Skate America this season. Anyway, I guess if I was worried about Dostatni supporting Shpilband's teams, I would be grateful that Dostatni is coming to Europeans rather than going to Worlds or 4CCs (where it appears Shpilband might show up with W&P). I do think I would be a bit worried having Dostatni on the panel if I were Fear & Gibson or any other team that has been bombing their pattern levels.

I think Weapo having is actually a benefit if he can help them getting the full levels by worlds, say what you want about Igor but he choreographed a masterpiece with that tango he still got it.

 

[VGThuy]

I think some people still give Dostatni a lot of credit for the success of Belbin/Agosto during the early days of IJS and how level calling hurt other teams like Delobel/Schoenfelder though most people would argue DelSchoes were a stronger team with better skating skills. Then his calling is seen to have helped both Virtue/Moir and Davis/White during their Igor/Marina days.

 

[yurokis40]

The thing is H&D have done themselves no favor chosing those programs they skate to. Hard to politik with that kind of material. Let's hope the worked out program will be better this week. IMO they could be overtaken by Weaver&Poje, Vika&Nikita and the italians. Not only in the RD but especially in the FD.

Russia is going to politik heavily for Nikita. Until he does what he does best. I sure hope he'll hold it together at least once more. The only time he did was Sotchi. 5 years ago. And junior worlds.

Dobre I disagree about Dostani. This man has fixed Ice dance from 2003 to 2014. All by himself, anytime he was THE technical caller. And that he was friendlier with some coaches was well known and documented. He's a crook in my eyes and nearly destroyed the sport all by his doings. I'm so glad he wasn't invited to score many events these past 5 years, I sure hope he doesn't come back. The +5 GOE is already doing a lot of harm.

that romeo and Juliet has had its last hurrah and wailing.

 

[Dobre]

For what it's worth, which is totally nothing . . .

I always thought Delobel & Schoenfelder (particularly Schoenfelder) were relatively weak performers for a top team and that IJS is what propelled them as far as they came. (That without it, the performance aspect of their skating would have kept them from being competitive for the podium). I did feel they grew as performers then, toward the end of their career. I did like The Piano program and their last two ODs.

 

[Peepsquick]

For what it's worth, which is totally nothing . . .

I always thought Delobel & Schoenfelder (particularly Schoenfelder) were relatively weak performers for a top team and that IJS is what propelled them as far as they came. (That without it, the performance aspect of their skating would have kept them from being competitive for the podium). I did feel they grew as performers then, toward the end of their career. I did like The Piano program and their last two ODs.

On a tangent, did you like Anissina/Peizerat? I thought they were great performers...

 

[allezfred]

i do not think the basic skating level of P/C and W/P is very different.

Can anyone hear me all the way from Minsk?

 

[deegee]

Can anyone hear me all the way from Minsk?

nope; can't hear you over my own guffawing

 

[sharsk8s]

Can anyone hear me all the way from Minsk?

My brain is struggling to process that information. Just WHAT

 

[yurokis40]

Can anyone hear me all the way from Minsk?

Weaver and Poje are excellent skaters who have improved they deserved the world title in 2014 when they lost by .02, Unfortunately they were not lucky in their career since the competition in their country included Virtue and Moir the greatest ice dance team of all time, Papadakis and Cizeron had no competition in their home country a lot easier for them.

 

[sharsk8s]

Weaver and Poje are excellent skaters who have improved they deserved the world title in 2014 when they lost by .02, Unfortunately they were not lucky in their career since the competition in their country included Virtue and Moir the greatest ice dance team of all time, Papadakis and Cizeron had no competition in their home country a lot easier for them.

Weaver/Poje have still made it to every important event even with V/M back so that doesn't effect their performance on the international stage. Plus we are talking about skating skill which although W/P have improved is still not on the same level as P/C

 

[kittysk8ts]

Can anyone hear me all the way from Minsk?

I was wondering if you were there! Enjoy, you lucky ******!!

 

[skatingguy]

Can anyone hear me all the way from Minsk?

I was wonder when you would notice that post.

 

[allezfred]

Weaver and Poje are excellent skaters who have improved they deserved the world title in 2014 when they lost by .02, Unfortunately they were not lucky in their career since the competition in their country included Virtue and Moir the greatest ice dance team of all time, Papadakis and Cizeron had no competition in their home country a lot easier for them.

Yes, dear.

 

[thvu]

PapCiz skate last, right after KalSpod (the Poles) in tomorrow’s RD. How many 10s are we going to see if they’re clean?

(My guess is 20/45...)

 

[Bigbird]

PapCiz skate last, right after the KalSpod (the Poles) in tomorrow’s RD. How many 10s are we going to see if they’re clean?

(My guess is 20/45...)

They should just make them all 10's.

 

[skatingguy]

PapCiz skate last, right after the KalSpod (the Poles) in tomorrow’s RD. How many 10s are we going to see if they’re clean?

(My guess is 20/45...)

If they're skating after the Poles, then it should be much higher - closer to 30 perhaps.

 

[sharsk8s]

I wonder how huge their score will be if they get the TR called and skate clean