The Dance Hall 6: We're All Off Our Rockers 2018-2019

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starrynight

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One thing I think needs to be looked at is the fact that one country can have all three skaters in the top ten but because they missed the magic 13 number (sometimes by mere fractions where the placements could have gone either way), they lose one spot and only get 2 while another fed's whole team can place like 3rd; 10th; and 15th and they still get to have three spots.
The whole Worlds spots thing can be quite brutal - particularly if a top skater for a fed is in injured or ill for Worlds etc then it can seriously impact on the prospects of the discipline domestically in that spots are lost for next year even if by then the skaters are back in top form.

As for Canada, dance is certainly its top prospect at the moment in terms of keeping spots. But again some luck in that Weaver/Poje decided to stay in and Fournier Beaudry/Sorensen made the change. Because you need that real depth to keep the spots unless you can win a world silver medal.

The thing with spots is that it causes issues with depth to start snowballing.
 

taz'smum

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I feel that skaters should have to earn a place at worlds.

These would be my selection criteria

1. All countries guaranteed 1 entry subject to minimum TES scores
2. Top 10 at the preceding worlds subject to the 3 per country rule
3. Current season's GP medalists subject to the 3 per country rule
4. Current season's Euros and 4CCs top 5 subject to the 3 per country rule

If a country has more than the 3 per country rule, the decider should be either on ISU ranking or the country's Federation gets to decide who to send.

So in dance we'd have got
2. P/C, H/D, W/P, C/L, C/B, G/P, S/B, Z/G, H/B
3. H/D, S/B, H/K, G/F, H/B, Z/G, S/K, G/P, P/C, M/C, C/P, P/P
4. P/C, S/B, G/F, S/K, K/S & 4CC probably H/D, C/B, W/P, G/P, H/B

So that gives the following countries these extra skaters in addition to their 1 per country allocation.

2 USA - H/D, C/B,
2 Canada - W/P, G/P
2 Russia - S/B, S/K,
1 Italy - G/F
1 France - P/C
1 Spain - H/K
1 Poland - K/S


This would get round problems of countries losing quotas if a skater is injured/underperforms etc.
 
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sharsk8s

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I feel that skaters should have to earn a place at worlds.

These would be my selection criteria

1. All countries guaranteed 1 entry subject to minimum TES scores
2. Top 10 at the preceding worlds subject to the 3 per country rule
3. Current season's GP medalists subject to the 3 per country rule
4. Current season's Euros and 4CCs top 5 subject to the 3 per country rule

If a country has more than the 3 per country rule, the decider should be either on ISU ranking or the country's Federation gets to decide who to send.

So in dance we'd have got
2. P/C, H/D, W/P, C/L, C/B, G/P, S/B, Z/G, H/B
3. H/D, S/B, H/K, G/F, H/B, Z/G, S/K, G/P, P/C
4. P/C, S/B, G/F, S/K, K/S & 4CC probably H/D, C/B, W/P, G/P, H/B

So that gives the following countries these extra skaters in addition to their 1 per country allocation.

2 USA - H/D, C/B,
2 Canada - W/P, G/P
2 Russia - S/B, S/K,
1 Italy - G/F
1 France - P/C
1 Spain - H/K
1 Poland - K/S


This would get round problems of countries losing quotas if a skater is injured/underperforms etc.
This is well thought out and seems to be realistic
 

taz'smum

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This is well thought out and seems to be realistic
Thanks, you could even remove the 3 per country rule, as in practice, there would be few cases of more than 2 meeting these criteria. Also, if a country has that many in the top echelons, they should all be allowed to compete in Worlds IMO
 

VGThuy

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I’m confused, wouldn’t criteria 3 have a lot more teams if we’re taking all GP medalists into account?
 

sharsk8s

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I’m confused, wouldn’t criteria 3 have a lot more teams if we’re taking all GP medalists into account?
I think the teams that meet criteria 3 would likely be the same people that meet criteria 2 and 4. Also many teams medal at both GP so it wouldn't be like you have 3 different teams from each GP
 

VGThuy

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I think the teams that meet criteria 3 would likely be the same people that meet criteria 2 and 4. Also many teams medal at both GP so it wouldn't be like you have 3 different teams from each GP
But Hurtado/Khaliavin have not but they're still listed under criteria 3. Criteria 3 would have a lot of skaters.
 

taz'smum

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I’m confused, wouldn’t criteria 3 have a lot more teams if we’re taking all GP medalists into account?
I did list all of the GP medalists for the current season, there were only 9 teams who medalled as most medalled in both their GPs.
 

sharsk8s

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Does anyone know if Muriel Zazoui has any current students? I know she coached many teams that went on to be successful but a lot of her students had to leave because of problems with French Fed (or so I have read). But does anyone know if she has any juniors or younger students now?
 

VGThuy

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Hurtado/Khaliavin got a silver medal at the Russian GP,
http://www.isuresults.com/events/cat03108923.htm
No, I mean H/K got a medal but didn't place top 5 at Euros or top 10 at Worlds 2018 which is what sharksk8 thought you did.

I did list all of the GP medalists for the current season, there were only 9 teams who medalled as most medalled in both their GPs.
On yout GP medalists list, you listed:

H/D, S/B, H/K, G/F, H/B, Z/G, S/K, G/P, P/C

But are missing: McNamara/Carpenter; Carreira/Ponomarenko; and the Parsons.
 

taz'smum

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No, I mean H/K got a medal but didn't place top 5 at Euros or top 10 at Worlds 2018 which is what sharksk8 thought you did.

On yout GP medalists list, you listed:

H/D, S/B, H/K, G/F, H/B, Z/G, S/K, G/P, P/C

But are missing: McNamara/Carpenter; Carreira/Ponomarenko; and the Parsons.
Whoops!!! I've updated the list now
It would just mean that there would be 4 teams fighting for the 1 guaranteed spot for the US after H/D and C/B have their guaranteed spots. However that would not be any different from now, as the Fed would still have to decide the 1 open spot
 

VGThuy

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Whoops!!! I've updated the list now
It would just mean that there would be 4 teams fighting for the 1 guaranteed spot for the US after H/D and C/B have their guaranteed spots. However that would not be any different from now, as the Fed would still have to decide the 1 open spot
Ah ok, that makes sense. I was just a bit confused.

So under your scenario, there will be 17 spots given to 7 federations, and every other federation is guaranteed at least 1 spot, and you have to hit all three criteria in order to get three spots, but if you hit one or two of the three criteria you get two spots?

ETA: NVM. I was confused because I was still under the impression it's the federation that is receiving the slots, but every federation gets 1 spot automatically and the teams themselves have to meet one of the criteria to be eligible to compete at Worlds but with a limit of 3 per federation, so in the case of the U.S. where there are like five teams to would qualify under the criteria, they would have to duke it out for 3 spots? So teams from countries with less depth who met the criteria and don't have more than 3 teams from that fed who met the critieria won't have to duke it out for a Worlds spot at Nationals as they already qualified.
 
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taz'smum

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and every other federation is guaranteed at least 1 spot,
All federations are guaranteed 1 spot, spots earned by individual skaters meeting criteria 2 to 4 are extra spots.

So under your scenario, there will be 17 spots given to 7 federations,
All federations 1 open Spot (Federation chooses the skater) (1 in total)
Federations with 1 skater meeting 1+ of the criteria 2,3,4 = 1 open spot + 1 skater earned spot (2 in total)
Federations with 2+ skaters meeting 1+ of the criteria 2,3,4 = 1 open spot + 2 skater earned spots (3 in total)

So the number of spots will vary depending on the number of skater earned spots!

Skaters only need to meet 1 of the criteria 2,3,4 to qualify for a skater earned spot.
The problem will come when more than 2 skaters from one Federation qualify for the skater earned spots.
In this case 2 skaters with the highest ISU rankings would get the spots (or the Fed involved could decide)
 

VGThuy

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All federations are guaranteed 1 spot, spots earned by individual skaters meeting criteria 2 to 4 are extra spots.



All federations 1 open Spot (Federation chooses the skater)
Federations with 1 skater meeting 1+ of the criteria 2,3,4 = 1 open spot + 1 skater earned spot
Federations with 2+ skaters meeting 1+ of the criteria 2,3,4 = 1 open spot + 2skater earned spots

So the number of spots will vary depending on the number of skater earned spots!
I edited my post because I finally realized we're changing the WHOLE system to give skaters the spots not the federations (outside the one guaranteed spot).
 

taz'smum

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I edited my post because I finally realized we're changing the WHOLE system to give skaters the spots not the federations (outside the one guaranteed spot).
Yep, which is much fairer, as we all have seen situations where a Fed has 3 spots and ends up sending a really low level couple in the 3rd spot who doesn't really deserve to be there. So extra spots should be earned IMO. That way extra spots will only be for really top level skaters as it should be.

Its also important that all Feds have the chance to send at least 1 team!
 

Holy Headband

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I appreciate this discussion, but I really think the current system works better than any of the alternative suggestions.

The point of tying spots to countries, not couples, and rewarding small federations with one star couple at the expense of bigger feds with multiple good couples is to popularise the sport in new places and enable generational turnover/internal competition. I think the benefits far outweigh the costs of the occasional unfortunate scenario, like the two Spanish couples fighting for one spot.
 

sharsk8s

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I'm already preparing for some wack RD scoring at 4CC with the way this competition is going. I didn't think I would say this but do we think someone will beat p/c WR with the judging going on? I at least hope they are tougher on levels than at US nats
 
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The tech panel might as well not have showed up to US nats.
 

Peepsquick

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Thanks, you could even remove the 3 per country rule, as in practice, there would be few cases of more than 2 meeting these criteria. Also, if a country has that many in the top echelons, they should all be allowed to compete in Worlds IMO
l love the new avatar!:)
 

yurokis40

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The tech panel might as well not have showed up to US nats.
I think if Weaver and Poje skate their RD perfectly they will be very close to the score for P&C or might even beat it, I don't see anybody equaling their fd score but you never know.
 

yurokis40

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I'm already preparing for some wack RD scoring at 4CC with the way this competition is going. I didn't think I would say this but do we think someone will beat p/c WR with the judging going on? I at least hope they are tougher on levels than at US nats
their isn't an American on the tech panel , the specialist is Canadian the controller is polish and the assistant I Russian but trains the Australian couples expect good scores for them if they skate well.
 

Bigbird

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their isn't an American on the tech panel , the specialist is Canadian the controller is polish and the assistant I Russian but trains the Australian couples expect good scores for them if they skate well.
Any links to the RD at 4CC? Please and thanks :)
 

Lara111

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I'm already preparing for some wack RD scoring at 4CC with the way this competition is going. I didn't think I would say this but do we think someone will beat p/c WR with the judging going on? I at least hope they are tougher on levels than at US nats
Scoring makes sense so far...
 
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