The Dance Hall 6: We're All Off Our Rockers 2018-2019

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Bigbird

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Sad for W/P but unfortunately seems fair
NICE!! Finally we have six teams, H/D, C/B, W/P, S/B, S/K, G/F vying for silver and bronze. Only nerves of steel will prevail, anyone feeling a Gadbois sweep could be possible? YAASSSSSS!
 

VGThuy

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I'm really not liking how the scoring is turning out in ice dance with clearly messed up elements netting positive GOE thanks to separating the man and woman in calling and low levels on FW and patterns no longer being crucial against similarly skilled teams who actually hit the pattern as expanded GOE can help make up the difference nearly completely.

Last quad, I complained about the tech panel having so much power over ice dance results, which is still true to a point, but at least the old scoring system allowed surprising rankings when a favored team messed up on an important element or didn't hit their BV and a less-favored team kept hitting it to the point where they could actually take advantage and beat those favored teams.
 

Bigbird

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I'm really not liking how the scoring is turning out in ice dance with clearly messed up elements netting positive GOE thanks to separating the man and woman in calling and low levels on FW and patterns no longer being crucial against similarly skilled teams who actually hit the pattern as expanded GOE can help make up the difference nearly completely.

Last quad, I complained about the tech panel having so much power over ice dance results, which is still true to a point, but at least the old scoring system allowed surprising rankings when a favored team messed up on an important element or didn't hit their BV and a less-favored team kept hitting it to the point where they could actually take advantage and beat those favored teams.

But in the end, it keeps things close. C/B were really clean tonight but not with the same abandon as H/D so they are practically tied. W/P started out well, I mean level four for the first part of the RT, but then they got more tight as the programme wore on, and Andrew held it together. There is less than 2 points between 1st and 3rd, so everything will be decided in the FD.
 

VGThuy

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I think it keeps things artificially close. But then on a metaphysical level, this whole sport is artificial as the scoring system can truly be anything anybody wants, especially if they have an agenda to over value and under value or not value certain things. Things are only worth a certain amount of points and mistakes are only as costly as they are only because people just decided it to be that way, they could have totally changed the values if they wanted and can do so at any time.
 

Bigbird

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Remember this is dance the artifice, politics and drama is what just keeps sucking us in. Don't know whether to just laugh at myself or.....let me go watch that again. :)
 

starrynight

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I remember how much it used to suck watching a team skate beautifully and then bobble slightly on something and then know that it was time to pack up and go home ... don't even need to watch the rest of the program because that level would be fatal.

But right now I think that it's gone in the opposite direction. Often looking down the base values of ice dance protocols can be a head scratcher because teams coming 5th or 9th in base value are ranking higher than the base value suggests.

Would it help to space out the base values more and keep the +5 GOE? It would probably have the effect of putting teams that got some good levels and GOE stratospherically ahead of other teams though ... but maybe it would help things.
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
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I remember how much it used to suck watching a team skate beautifully and then bobble slightly on something and then know that it was time to pack up and go home ... don't even need to watch the rest of the program because that level would be fatal.

But right now I think that it's gone in the opposite direction. Often looking down the base values of ice dance protocols can be a head scratcher because teams coming 5th or 9th in base value are ranking higher than the base value suggests.

Would it help to space out the base values more and keep the +5 GOE? It would probably have the effect of putting teams that got some good levels and GOE stratospherically ahead of other teams though ... but maybe it would help things.
I think the technical committee needs to pare down the number of bullet points for each element and make the +4/+5 a little harder to get.
 

shuilee

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I like that caller has less power. The RUS caller with CAN look like they were trying to bring down H&D with a suspect level 2 call on the FW. Seem like a harsh call. Glad judges gave them +3s and +4s which seem appropriate given it was performed well with nice speed.

I've seen too many times last quad that the caller could take out a team from medal contention by calling a Level 2 and base value is immediately 3.0 points lower than their rivals! One could argue 1.0 point differential is too small, but maybe 1.5 or 2.0 point differential between Level 2 and 4 is a good compromise for next year.
 

starrynight

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I've seen too many times last quad that the caller could take out a team from medal contention by calling a Level 2 and base value is immediately 3.0 points lower than their rivals! One could argue 1.0 point differential is too small, but maybe 1.5 or 2.0 point differential between Level 2 and 4 is a good compromise for next year.
I'm just finding these competitions really unsatisfying.

Then you scroll through twitter and it's all about how technically strong some teams are and how pleased they are with their skates ... when the levels in any other season would have been totally fatal. It sort of seems like a parallel universe.
 

Zazy

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Then you scroll through twitter and it's all about how technically strong some teams are and how pleased they are with their skates ... when the levels in any other season would have been totally fatal. It sort of seems like a parallel universe.
Agreed. I've always thought levels were a dumb myopic way of determining difficulty and that tech callers had too much power.
That said, there's been such a seismic change in how tech scores are attributed and nobody in skating seems to be acknowledging this (other than a few fans on the internet). It's strange.
 

Michalle

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Agreed. I've always thought levels were a dumb myopic way of determining difficulty and that tech callers had too much power.
That said, there's been such a seismic change in how tech scores are attributed and nobody in skating seems to be acknowledging this (other than a few fans on the internet). It's strange.
I am pretty sure Stepanova/Bukin talked about this in an interview recently, maybe after Europeans? Or Russian Nationals?
 

starrynight

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That said, there's been such a seismic change in how tech scores are attributed and nobody in skating seems to be acknowledging this (other than a few fans on the internet). It's strange.
I've been waiting for a coach to start making a big deal in the media about it. But it hasn't happened yet. I guess no one dares draw attention to it, because it's benefiting their skaters. No coach at Gadbois would make a fuss over the scoring system because some of their skaters rely on it. I'm not sure if the Russian coaches have commented in detail either .. but again they have skaters who rely on it.

I did notice that Chock/Bates said at the RD press conference at 4CC that the tango romantica 'exposes you in a way where you can tell the top teams apart'. I guess because they have been getting good levels its in their interests to draw attention to the importance of hitting levels.
 

Orm Irian

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I'm a bit heartbroken for Till and Bill after the RD. They were so excited to be there and they looked so gutted when they got their scores after being on a rising curve all season. I just hope this doesn't put them off before the free. They've got a lot of creativity and guts and I want them encouraged, dammit!
 

GreenGan

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I think the scoring was correct in the RD. I much prefer Chock/Bates to Hubbell/Donohue (oh how I miss their 2016's program) but H/D still are the better skater in the power and SS department. However, on the performance, commitment, choreo and how they express their command on the ice, C/B were the star of the show. I don't care if they are 2nd when you see that they are close enough from H/D.

Now let the FD be the judge for the gold medal..
 

cocotaffy

One, two, three, stretch
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I'm a bit heartbroken for Till and Bill after the RD. They were so excited to be there and they looked so gutted when they got their scores after being on a rising curve all season. I just hope this doesn't put them off before the free. They've got a lot of creativity and guts and I want them encouraged, dammit!
Who are Till and Bill, first time I see those abbreviations. Sounds like two cartoon characters.
 
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Deleted member 74551

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I think the scoring was correct in the RD. I much prefer Chock/Bates to Hubbell/Donohue (oh how I miss their 2016's program) but H/D still are the better skater in the power and SS department. However, on the performance, commitment, choreo and how they express their command on the ice, C/B were the star of the show. I don't care if they are 2nd when you see that they are close enough from H/D.

Now let the FD be the judge for the gold medal..
I’d usually agree that HD have much better skating skills but while they’re still more powerful with more ice coverage they’ve also been quite sloppy and hopping turns all over the place this year. I’m not sure what’s happened- pressure of being frontrunners instead of underdogs or Olympic exhaustion or simply not being inspired by the material?
 
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deegee

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i hope to see even more improvement from chock/bates in the next couple of seasons. while madison draws so much attention because of how physically stunning she is and the gorgeous positions she hits in the lifts, what she is doing with her blades (while much improved since last season) still isn't packing the kind of punch that hubbell is. until her skating starts to look more powerful and bigger, i think c/b will continue to fall behind h/d unless the latter make mistakes that cannot be overlooked/diminished by their overall ss.
 

Lara111

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i hope to see even more improvement from chock/bates in the next couple of seasons. while madison draws so much attention because of how physically stunning she is and the gorgeous positions she hits in the lifts, what she is doing with her blades (while much improved since last season) still isn't packing the kind of punch that hubbell is. until her skating starts to look more powerful and bigger, i think c/b will continue to fall behind h/d unless the latter make mistakes that cannot be overlooked/diminished by their overall ss.
Bates needs more charisma, even though he looks a bit better some of his movements are still at the level of a novice skater. He is nowhere near Poje or Donahue visually.
 

chantilly

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I'm really not liking how the scoring is turning out in ice dance with clearly messed up elements netting positive GOE thanks to separating the man and woman in calling and low levels on FW and patterns no longer being crucial against similarly skilled teams who actually hit the pattern as expanded GOE can help make up the difference nearly completely.

Last quad, I complained about the tech panel having so much power over ice dance results, which is still true to a point, but at least the old scoring system allowed surprising rankings when a favored team messed up on an important element or didn't hit their BV and a less-favored team kept hitting it to the point where they could actually take advantage and beat those favored teams.
Agreed. However I do like the separation of the male and female skaters in the marking.
 

deegee

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Bates needs more charisma, even though he looks a bit better some of his movements are still at the level of a novice skater. He is nowhere near Poje or Donahue visually.
this is also true, but i think he may be finding his confidence again after such a long time being hidden by the choreography they've been given the last few years. i feel like he was much more charismatic when he was with samuelson, but i admit that it has been a long-ass time since i watched one of their programs so i may be misremembering.
 

Spun Silver

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this is also true, but i think he may be finding his confidence again after such a long time being hidden by the choreography they've been given the last few years. i feel like he was much more charismatic when he was with samuelson, but i admit that it has been a long-ass time since i watched one of their programs so i may be misremembering.
Speaking of Emily, did anyone hear her on the Ice Desk during Nats? I didn't tune in but would love to hear how she did.

I don't remember Evan ever being charismatic. He has always been outshined by his partners as far as I remember. But he and Emily were better matched. In recent years he's had a sort of nerdy quality that really didn't go with Maddie's mini sex bomb style, and took away from his skating, and that's been fixed with his new haircut. Now they go together better and we (at least I) can focus on his skating.
 

Bigbird

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Speaking of Emily, did anyone hear her on the Ice Desk during Nats? I didn't tune in but would love to hear how she did.

I don't remember Evan ever being charismatic. He has always been outshined by his partners as far as I remember. But he and Emily were better matched. In recent years he's had a sort of nerdy quality that really didn't go with Maddie's mini sex bomb style, and took away from his skating, and that's been fixed with his new haircut. Now they go together better and we (at least I) can focus on his skating.

IMHO, C/B are the NA equivalent of S/B with C/B going slightly ahead in the SS department. They are so mismatched in technique when comparing both partners. But mark my words it's gonna be tight at worlds because everybody is really, that close. CB's FD is such a great vehicle for them though and so refreshing, it works for them as a couple. The Russian couples though will give them a run for it because of the speed they come to the table with. They will have to bring their A Game and nerves of steel. Excited for worlds already. :)


EDIT: And judges it's about time to really separate the boys from the men. P/C should be scored closer to 90 with everyone else huddled around the 80 - 82 range, just saying. They're like night and day. Rant over.
 

VGThuy

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I think under his old coach/choreographer with Emily before he moved to Igor, Evan, though not the most charismatic, had choreo that showed him off well and he didn't just fade into the background supporting his female partner who carried the performance as what happened with Chock under Igor for like seven seasons. That's a long time to be doing that.
 

deegee

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I think under his old coach/choreographer with Emily before he moved to Igor, Evan, though not the most charismatic, had choreo that showed him off well and he didn't just fade into the background supporting his female partner who carried the performance as what happened with Chock under Igor for like seven seasons. That's a long time to be doing that.
yeah, this is what i was trying to say.
 

Bigbird

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Bates needs more charisma, even though he looks a bit better some of his movements are still at the level of a novice skater. He is nowhere near Poje or Donahue visually.

I'm not finding Donahue as interesting this year, sort of overshadowed by Maddie. Poje, well Poje is in a league of his own, but Bates with Chock, in their FD this year has what we'd call perfect pitch together, cuteness, overload. The only person who could really show him up in my book, is Scott Moir.
 
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