The Dance Hall 6: We're All Off Our Rockers 2018-2019
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caseyedwards
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The panel was better in 2017 and the worlds were in Finland. The era of Russia just may be over.
It says so much that katsalapov was a disaster at euros! When the pressure increases he collapses.
C&B won't be in the top 5 I don't see those programs appealing to these particular judges me thinks they lost ground with the judges , H&D are no way a lock for silver they have only been on the podium once and are prone to errors.
Yeah hence the “clean” comment.
H and D aren’t that consistent in the big competitions too.
I fully expect the judges to dump either W and P or C and B.
Still not sure which team is going down.
Why would they dump Weapo they are Canada number one again boost in scores, C&B more likely only one team from the gadbois camp has a chance to medal aside from P&C and that's H&D, W&P have Igor, Camerlengo and Morozov all politicking for them.
caseyedwards
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Even if they were clean they are from Russia!
No, I was posting about 4CCs. Personally, as I mentioned clear back at the beginning of the season, I am rooting for Stepanova & Bukin and Weaver & Poje. No, that isn't my prediction for who will make the podium (I'll be thrilled if either of those teams does); but as I said above, I don't think I personally could make a prediction for Worlds until after 4CCs.
sharsk8s
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Wait so is this panel pro-gadbois or not? Its hard to tell since a pro-gadbois panel is not always the same as a regular pro-North America panel
Agreed that’s it’s a good idea to wait for 4CC ‘s to get any kind of a better idea how the NA teams stack up against each other.
Scoring is always variable, but we might get a better sense comparing scores and levels to Europeans to see how the NA teams stack up against the Europeans, save P and C who will win by a huge margin.
alain06fr
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I think the 2017 tech panel was terrible
caseyedwards
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B/S almost medaled. That panel was great for Russia and b/s. But even with the extreme overwhelming push of the Russian federation they still were not able to medal
Their names are Natalia Kaliszek & Maksym Spodyriev. They finished 16th and 14th at the 2016 & 2017 World Championships. And 10th at last year's European Championships (8th in the FD) and 14th at the Olympics. The only team they passed at this year's Europeans was Hurtado & Khaliavin, who mucked up their RD twizzles for the umpteenth time this year. It's quite possible that either H&K, Fear & Gibson, or Lauriault & Le Gac could trade spots with K&S at Worlds; but there's no history proclaiming these teams as being "far better" than K&S. Rather H&K are a newish team with a lot of potential & still trying to iron out the kinks. And F&G finished 24th during last year's Worlds.
Note: K&S had an uncharacteristically low finish for them in 17th at Worlds last year after a super long review/delay following their FD. (My guess would be that Judy called some element within their program as something it wasn't supposed to be, thereby costing them the real element. Ultimately they received zero credit for two lifts--no one on FSU seemed to figure out whatever the mistake(s?) was that cost them so heavily. It wasn't indicative of where they really are internationally). Prior to that wonky FD result, they were 0.03 behind Smart & Diaz and above Lauriault & Le Gac. So, yeah, these teams have kind of been in the mix with each other--shifting around a bit--for the past 3 seasons. If anything, K&S have been in the mix a bit longer than the Spanish teams, L&LG, and F&G.
sharsk8s
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I didn't mean to say K/S have no potential but at this particular competition other teams (such as the spanish and F/G etc.) performed better and with more entertaining programs. I very well believe they earned their place within the top 10 but the top 5 is a stretch in my opinion (and in many other people's whose I have read) which likely wouldn't have been possible without the Eastern European panel at Euros
Edit: I was corrected and told there were only 1 or 2 EE judges on the panel, my mistake. I read in other places that they were scored very graciously but I must have been mistaken. I apologize
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I count 2 Eastern European judges on the RD panel and 1 on the FD panel. (Per wikipedia, Poland, itself, is listed as being part of Central Europe).
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sharsk8s
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You are correct, sorry for the misunderstanding. I edited my response
caseyedwards
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But during Cold War and for figure skating Judging Poland was always considered Eastern Europe because it was communist and controlled by USSR
cocotaffy
Fetchez la vache... mais fetchez la vache !
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Their 5th finish here was surprising, they, especially her, don't skate well, per Nathalie Pechalat, lots but lots of two feet. Focusing on their feet, they are sluggish, awkward and heavy on the ice. When they took the ice during the FD, I thought we were back watching the 2nd group. They might have been in the mix for a while but it doesn't mean they should. I'd say they even regressed since their Dirty Dancing days when they were lighter on their skates and faster.
Anyway, let's gear up for 4CC, I just can't wait to see how everyone will stack up. I just hope for everyone to have the cleanest skate so we can really get an idea.
It's not a problem. It's just that I learned a long time ago to really look at the results before buying into ice dance conspiracy theories and/or biased nationalistic TV commentary. So I was going to really look at the scores to compare placements for all of these teams now that those scores are up on the skating skills site:
http://skatingscores.com/2019/ec/dance/short/
http://skatingscores.com/2019/ec/dance/long/
Not surprisingly, judges results are split between the teams that were fighting for the 5-8th place spots at Europeans. The main thing I see aside from that is that Kaliszek & Spodyriev unanimously won the TES mark in the RD over all the other teams gunning for the same berth. (Spain put the Finns above K&S, but as Turkkilla & Versluis were really more in the battle for the 10th spot at best, I think it's still fair to say that K&S won the TES RD mark over their main competition unanimously). If K&S don't get those levels at Worlds, will they lose the advantage? Quite plausible. But the rest of the scores indicate they would still have been in the fight at Europeans.
Even when analyzing the panels based on non-former communist vs. former communist countries, I still get a 50/50 split for the judges at Europeans when combining both the RD & FD panels.
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casken
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I swear, the over the top hostility to Kaliszek & Spodyriev are making them my new "root for" team.
Where were all you people when Davis and White where getting 10.00s for their "Latin" SD, or when Chock and Bates walked into 9.50+ PCS their first year as US #1's and almost won worlds in 2015 with mediocre skates? Where are you guys whenever Sharon Rodgers blatantly manipulates scores to help US teams(Thank god for no US judge at worlds, btw.)
Those weren't fair, and at the benefit of a much more powerful federation.
But a team from a less favored country skates well, hits the levels, gets decent marks, and their are pages of people acting like this is the most questionable result in years. Talk to me when when H&D get huge marks for tepid programs that are skated with a big gap between their bodies and are beating teams like Guignard & Fabbri at worlds.
Where were all you people when Davis and White where getting 10.00s for their "Latin" SD, or when Chock and Bates walked into 9.50+ PCS their first year as US #1's and almost won worlds in 2015 with mediocre skates? Where are you guys whenever Sharon Rodgers blatantly manipulates scores to help US teams(Thank god for no US judge at worlds, btw.)
Those weren't fair, and at the benefit of a much more powerful federation.
But a team from a less favored country skates well, hits the levels, gets decent marks, and their are pages of people acting like this is the most questionable result in years. Talk to me when when H&D get huge marks for tepid programs that are skated with a big gap between their bodies and are beating teams like Guignard & Fabbri at worlds.
sharsk8s
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I understand where you are coming from and do agree that K/S deserved to be in the top 8 with their good skates but I think top 5 was a bit of a push. But this is completely a personal preference and everyone is entitled to their own. In no way do I doubt K/S potential or want to diminish from their good performances
AMEN
manhn
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Yeah, D&W and C&B never met criticism.
VGThuy
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I detect no lies, but I also can't really warm up to K/S anyway. Regrading Chock/Bates I was right there with you, though my motivation may been less than honorable at the time as the Shibs kept losing to them despite them falling on twizzles and stuff, but even apart from that, I had criticisms of that team under Igor. I was grateful at the time that P/C saved us from having C/B as World Champions. From what I remember though, I was far from the only one and C/B are like one of the more criticized teams on the forum. I've never been a big D/W fan and I'll just leave it at that, and there's been tons of debate during the D/W v. V/M days about D/W's skating.
Sharon Rodgers amuses me some times because it's clear she's overworking to what she probably thinks is to bring balance to panels she probably feels would normally work against U.S. teams, but she's so transparent and blatant that she's become a real joke and I don't think she should be on any more panels just to build up U.S. credibility in scoring. But then, ice dance judging is a real joke as a whole (look at the Turkish judges' scores who almost always aligns with the other Eastern European judges) and so Rodgers being singled out is sort of funny when we can probably pick out other judges' scores and look at the ridiculousness as well. She's just OTT with it but she's essentially doing what other judges are doing.
Regarding H/D, I think they're being rewarded for that power and deep edges that they have that people overlook other things. Plus separation is something that has been easily overlooked when there's power (and speed) since arguably the 1994 Olympics.
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Sorry, but I saw the Poles live in Helsinki two years ago. I had found them entertaining on screen but in person they were slow and clunky. I couldn’t believe they finished ahead of F/G and L/L and I still think that’s true.
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