The Dance Hall 5: Ice Dance Fans 2017-2018

[chapis]

Zagreb https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCM_UaC4Afd9QAAXQowpJcrQ/videos

Germany

Lorenz/Polizoakis 150.42
Mueller/Dieck 149.02

Spain

Hurtado/Khaliavin 163.58
Smart/Diaz 159.40

 

[Bigbird]

About VM : the intensity in the Tango part was amaaaazing. They really worked on their circular, it matched the music better. Maybe they should add a bit more in the diagonal idk. And the death scene at the end was better than before I think, more intense. I think once they figure out what to do about the come what may section they could reach the 120 too, I see no reason why they shouldn't tbh. Their feet are so quick...

The judges see P/C's style as exemplary and they've relegated V/M to the second spot. P/C are trending right now, in essence. Russia is copying their style and it's clearly visible in all their top 3 teams. This is the new ideal and barring P/C having a major error in PC it's likely they've given the gold to them. Notwithstanding my pessimism though I do hope V/M go to PC guns blazing and give the performances of their careers.

EDIT: Am I imagining things or did Tiffany and Jonathan underperform at these competitions? Is their level of skating really below Smart and Diaz? Or did they have a bad skate?

 

[Miloune]

The judges see P/C's style as exemplary and they've relegated V/M to the second spot. P/C are trending right now, in essence. Russia is copying their style and it's clearly visible in all their top 3 teams. This is the new ideal and barring P/C having a major error in PC it's likely they've given the gold to them. Notwithstanding my pessimism though I do hope V/M go to PC guns blazing and give the performances of their careers.

At this point it's really come down to "little nothings" between those two teams. I think PC "grasped" the full potential of their FD choice (now it's just polish), while VM are still searching for it.
Who knows what will happen in 2 months time. As someone mentioned it, the GPF winner isn't always the OGM winner.
PC are my faves so I'm happy. But I'd like to see a masterpiece from VM because their skating is so fabulous it would be a pity not to see one.

 

[mollymgr]

As someone mentioned it, the GPF winner isn't always the OGM winner.

All comps are different. GPF winner isn't the always the OGM, but GPF winner has also been the OGM. Every competition comes with its own set of circumstances. Otherwise, why even watch live sports?
If people are already making their mind up about controversy and wuzrobbing, just stop watching it since the outcome may or may not make you feel any better 2 months later.

 

[Nmsis]

The judges see P/C's style as exemplary and they've relegated V/M to the second spot.

Nope. IMHO.
V/M are getting the second spot because their FD doesn't work.
More precisely, it doesn't work as well as V/M thought it would.
In the GPF thread, @allezfred said that when they watch their score coming up, V/M don't understand why their FD isn't scoring higher.

They are (were ?) convinced they have the perfect vehicle.
I'm convinced it is an error. Even before seeing it, after reading V/M's early interviews, I had questions.
And when I first saw the program at Autumn Classic, I thought it wasn't working. Parts were working. Some parts were impressive. But as a whole, a deflated baloon.
And I wondered how they would change things to make it work.

They fined tune the interpretation, the costumes, some details and by Skate Canada (basically, they scrapped the drama), it started working. The balloon was inflating. To a limit.
That is not a problem in itself but when the neighbours' balloon makes their house fly, no wonder that's where the gazes are going.

Why doesn't Moulin Rouge Balloon "work" more ?
Because it is incoherent. It is a V/M idea / canvass with 3 choreographers to embellish it, but no one in the lead to put some coherence / concept in it.

As drama, it doesn't work. The choreo has no transition between parts to justify a change of mood/tone.
A woman and a man "fight" / they are in love, it is so cute / she dies. That's it. No transition, no dramatic justification.
So when they played for the drama at the Autumn Cup, the program felt blah and dramatically "underserved" after the first part.

As a concept program based on a story, it works. That's how they have skated it from Skate Canada.
But what is the concept ? Moulin Rouge is a metaphor of V/M's career.
Ok, nice.
But it feels artificial and it doesn't build up. The momentum is in the first part. The second part is nice but feels more bland (and refers to V/M's earlier days while the tango refers to later Carmen).
And in the end, she slowly dies / they leave (and I absolutly don't care about it, which I suppose is not the goal *sound of deflating balloon*).
The more it lasts, the less I'm involved.
Is it metaphoric for their career ? Starting from the highest point to end with a whisper is not the kind of metaphor they want for their program / career.

And V/M thought they had the perfect idea, the perfect set of choreographers, the perfect everything. While the key problem is how they constructed the program from the very begining. No main choreographer, no coherence, no POV, no interest built.

Now is it fixable ?
I explained how I'd do it in the GPF thread (split the parts of the choreo and "play them in reverse", starting with the death and ending with the tango so it would end with a BANG, Tessa rising back like a phoenix, the same way they want to end their career).
There are probably a lot of other strategies to try to improve this FD.
But V/M must be quick. Because here lies the crux of their problem.

 

[Bigbird]

Nope. IMHO.
V/M are getting the second spot because their FD doesn't work.
More precisely, it doesn't work as well as V/M thought it would.
In the GPF thread, @allezfred said that when they watch their score coming up, V/M don't understand why their FD isn't scoring higher.

They are (were ?) convinced they have the perfect vehicle.
I'm convinced it is an error. Even before seeing it, after reading V/M's early interviews, I had questions.
And when I first saw the program at Autumn Classic, I thought it wasn't working. Parts were working. Some parts were impressive. But as a whole, a deflated baloon.
And I wondered how they would change things to make it work.

They fined tune the interpretation, the costumes, some details and by Skate Canada (basically, they scrapped the drama), it started working. The balloon was inflating. To a limit.
That is not a problem in itself but when the neighbours' balloon makes their house fly, no wonder that's where the gazes are going.

Why doesn't Moulin Rouge Balloon "work" more ?
Because it is incoherent. It is a V/M idea / canvass with 3 choreographers to embellish it, but no one in the lead to put some coherence / concept in it.

As drama, it doesn't work. The choreo has no transition between parts to justify a change of mood/tone.
A woman and a man "fight" / they are in love, it is so cute / she dies. That's it. No transition, no dramatic justification.
So when they played for the drama at the Autumn Cup, the program felt blah and dramatically "underserved" after the first part.

As a concept program based on a story, it works. That's how they have skated it from Skate Canada.
But what is the concept ? Moulin Rouge is a metaphor of V/M's career.
Ok, nice.
But it feels artificial and it doesn't build up. The momentum is in the first part. The second part is nice but feels more bland (and refers to V/M's earlier days while the tango refers to later Carmen).
And in the end, she slowly dies / they leave (and I absolutly don't care about it, which I suppose is not the goal *sound of deflating balloon*).
The more it lasts, the less I'm involved.
Is it metaphoric for their career ? Starting from the highest point to end with a whisper is not the kind of metaphor they want for their program / career.

And V/M thought they had the perfect idea, the perfect set of choreographers, the perfect everything. While the key problem is how they constructed the program from the very begining. No main choreographer, no coherence, no POV, no interest built.

Now is it fixable ?
I explained how I'd do it in the GPF thread (split the parts of the choreo and "play them in reverse", starting with the death and ending with the tango so it would end with a BANG, rise back like a phoenix, the same way they want to end their career).
There are probably a lot of other strategies to try to improve this FD.
But V/M must be quick. Because here lies the crux of their problem.

You make my point exactly. In the eyes of the judges, P/C have the better vehicles. V/M have no time to change their FD we all know this. Word to the wise, enjoy your last competitive skate with gusto.

 

[MarieM]

You make my point exactly. In the eyes of the judges, P/C have the better vehicles. V/M have no time to change their FD we all know this. Word to the wise, enjoy your last competitive skate with gusto.

By switching the two parts, they wouldn't really "change" the program. They would rework it for it to be better. IMO they should.

 

[Nmsis]

You make my point exactly. In the eyes of the judges, P/C have the better vehicles. V/M have no time to change their FD we all know this.

Vehicle, yes, not style.
And dancers are used to train their programs in parts. Switching them wouldn't be very difficult.
What it would change is the dynamic of the program.
And the message it is sending, which IMHO would be more in line with what they actually want to make as a statement.

 

[CassAgain]

A few notes from the GPF FD scores:

The French judge gave Virtue and Moir a higher GOE on the curve lift than the Canadian judge--perhaps a mea culpa for the +1 for the lift in the short.

All but two judges gave the Shibs positive GOEs for their twizzles, and not one gave them negative. The Italian judge gave them +2.

The American judge tied the three US teams in PCS. In GOE it was close as well, but ended up 1. Chock and Bates, 2. Hub/Don (would have likely been a tie if not for the problems with the rotational lift) 3. Shibs, but again, only dinged them on elements where there were struggles.

 

[Bigbird]

Vehicle, yes, not style.
And dancers are used to train their programs in parts. Switching them wouldn't be very difficult.
What it would change is the dynamic of the program.
And the message it is sending, which IMHO would be more in line with what they actually want to make as a statement.

Yes, but at the end of the day, your vehicle is the embodiment or reflection of your STYLE. The one glaring thing that V/M seem to lack in comparison to P/C is ease of movement and fluidity. P/C have that in spades and I think the judges are just mesmerized by it. Nothing else seems to matter much. Changing the order of the program won't really change their perception of V/M. So if this is their last competitive season, let them skate their last two programs however they feel like. IMHO, of course.

EDIT: V/M's lack ease and fluidity in comparison to P/C are due in large part, IMHO to the nature of the choreography, or at least those are my thoughts. Because as we can see from the Come What May portion of the FD they can do lyrical and floaty just as well as they can do crisp and sharp. The judges just don't seem to care about that. Or it seems that they don't.

 

[Nmsis]

Yes, but at the end of the day, your vehicle is the embodiment or reflection of your STYLE. The one glaring thing that V/M seem to lack in comparison to P/C is ease of movement and fluidity. P/C have that in spades and I think the judges are just mesmerized by it.

Consider last season.
PC's FD.
At the begining of the season, everybody asked them to scrap it, the french fed, the judges ...
P/C said that at the begining of the season, people were telling them "we love the second part but that first part ? Not so much" and at the end of the season, nobody was talking about parts, everyone was saying the program is fantastic.

The problem was not exactly the same
But as with V/M right now, their FD at the begining of the season felt less as a whole than the sum of its parts.
But they kept it, and tweaked it again and again. And at the end of the season, they won the FD.
Their statement all season long was we don't dance what we dance to win or to please you.
We dance what we dance to win you over.
And they worked toward that and building coherence to bridge the parts and it worked.
And the judges indulged. In April. With a World Record.

Some people place the turning tide of the V/M vs P/C competition at this point.

It is essential for a program to be coherent.
Any program can work buttloads if it is coherent and has an intention, a proposition to make.
Even a disco program.

If V/M make their program coherent in itself and with the thing they want to say, it will take off.
For me, V/M's programs this season are here to make a statement :
"WE ARE THE BEST, WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS, LOOK AT US, LOOK AT OUR CAREER AND CROWN US BECAUSE IF WE ARE LEAVING, WE ARE LEAVING WITH A BANG !!!"
They are not invitations to an intimate dance, they are not invitations to heartwrenching drama.
They are spectacular, affirmative, lound and strong statements.
If their FD becomes coherent with that statement, it'll pay off big time.
(I'm not saying it will win, I'm saying it will move closer to P/C, up to a yet unknown point)

Right now, it states "look at how great we were, and even before that, and NOW we're leaving ..." *caw* *caw* *caw*
While it could state "we are leaving but look at how great we were, or rather HOW GREAT WE ARE !!!" *ROAR*

The first option is a death notice , the second is a coherent and strong statement.

 

[mollymgr]

Yes, but at the end of the day, your vehicle is the embodiment or reflection of your STYLE. The one glaring thing that V/M seem to lack in comparison to P/C is ease of movement and fluidity. P/C have that in spades and I think the judges are just mesmerized by it. Nothing else seems to matter much. Changing the order of the program won't really change their perception of V/M. So if this is their last competitive season, let them skate their last two programs however they feel like. IMHO, of course.

The music has a lot to do with any program. I guess you could do a poll of how many people absolutely love Ewan McGregor's vocals. IMO, it distracts a lot from the actual skating.

 

[ninalovesskating]

Zagreb https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCM_UaC4Afd9QAAXQowpJcrQ/videos

Germany

Lorenz/Polizoakis 150.42
Mueller/Dieck 149.02

Spain

Hurtado/Khaliavin 163.58
Smart/Diaz 159.40

Had Sara not dropped her earrings resulting to a costume violation, H/K would have gotten the bronze medal over Hawayek/Baker.

 

[chapis]

Had Sara not dropped her earrings resulting to a costume violation, H/K would have gotten the bronze medal over Hawayek/Baker.

What? she dropped her earrings again? I did not see that, she dropped her earrings in Andorra Open.

 

[ninalovesskating]

What? she dropped her earrings again? I did not see that, she dropped her earrings in Andorra Open.

She did in Andorra too? Whyyyyyyyyyyyy?

 

[Spun Silver]

What? she dropped her earrings again? I did not see that, she dropped her earrings in Andorra Open.

That is my nightmare as a jewelry maker! I have made earrings for a skater before but told her not to wear them on the ice because something like this could happen. Even though it is just a matter of tight backs. I couldn't stand it if I were the cause of any problem!

 

[cocotaffy]

The switching of the two parts in V/M's FD is interesting but wouldn't it raise the issue of stamina though. I don't mean by that they're not on top form, on the contrary, but they're going with all gun blazing during the tango so leaving it for the 2nd half could be riskier. I did find Scott's facial expressions right at the start quite scary tbh, he looks at her like he's gonna eat her or sg. Never seen him so intense. It was slightly creepy
As for the Shibs, they're so consistent, I'm truly puzzled as to what happened, Skate America was so close in time, they might have felt exhausted. Still their FD music edit is a problem imo. Every time you feel it's gonna build it just fizzles down so the program never gets the right pace. I also don't know what they're trying to portray here. Listening to the lyrics, I guess this is about Maia, but then I prefer when it's about the journey of two people, I think Fix you was working well because it was about their struggle. Anyway, it was an off day and they've faced many setbacks so they can get over it, plus they have a strong SD.
H/D, as much as I love them and want them to move up, rewatching their FD and focusing on their feet and extensions, I feel they left many points on the table again. Their extensions were not as neat and they didn't finish their movements as fully as usual, particularly Zach. I also have an issue with the beginning of their FD, it goes on for a bit too long and right when the music totally dies letting you think it'll change, boom it starts again, it's a bit odd. But overall, they just need to polish their elements, have even cleaner edges and get those nerves under wraps.
C/B are starting a slow comeback, they must really have been injured then to begin the season so slow. I don't care for imagine (can't stand the song really) but it was the best they skated this season. I still think H/D should be above them but with the way things look, H/D have to skate absolutely flawlessly in order to create a safe cushion against C/B.
I find C/L's FD boring this year which is odd because they're definitely not a boring couple. It's very one note. They look a bit outdated now tbh.

 

[DreamSkates]

By switching the two parts, they wouldn't really "change" the program. They would rework it for it to be better. IMO they should.

And she needs a different dress. What she has now is boring, not much style.

 

[Isabelle.G]

The switching of the two parts in V/M's FD is interesting but wouldn't it raise the issue of stamina though. I don't mean by that they're not on top form, on the contrary, but they're going with all gun blazing during the tango so leaving it for the 2nd half could be riskier. I did find Scott's facial expressions right at the start quite scary tbh, he looks at her like he's gonna eat her or sg. Never seen him so intense. It was slightly creepy
As for the Shibs, they're so consistent, I'm truly puzzled as to what happened, Skate America was so close in time, they might have felt exhausted. Still their FD music edit is a problem imo. Every time you feel it's gonna build it just fizzles down so the program never gets the right pace. I also don't know what they're trying to portray here. Listening to the lyrics, I guess this is about Maia, but then I prefer when it's about the journey of two people, I think Fix you was working well because it was about their struggle. Anyway, it was an off day and they've faced many setbacks so they can get over it, plus they have a strong SD.
H/D, as much as I love them and want them to move up, rewatching their FD and focusing on their feet and extensions, I feel they left many points on the table again. Their extensions were not as neat and they didn't finish their movements as fully as usual, particularly Zach. I also have an issue with the beginning of their FD, it goes on for a bit too long and right when the music totally dies letting you think it'll change, boom it starts again, it's a bit odd. But overall, they just need to polish their elements, have even cleaner edges and get those nerves under wraps.
C/B are starting a slow comeback, they must really have been injured then to begin the season so slow. I don't care for imagine (can't stand the song really) but it was the best they skated this season. I still think H/D should be above them but with the way things look, H/D have to skate absolutely flawlessly in order to create a safe cushion against C/B.
I find C/L's FD boring this year which is odd because they're definitely not a boring couple. It's very one note. They look a bit outdated now tbh.

I've got to say I like when Scott's on fire, but this was sometimes too much, imo. And as much as I enjoy their FD, I fully agree with the theory by Nmsis. At least for me, there is something lacking, something that would make a bigger momentum. The dance makes sense if you know the film storyline, but it also feels so abrupt. I know they've got only 4 minutes, but the so so dramatic first half, which I love, turning all of a sudden into the romantic and tragic final... a bit strange. However, two months are a long time and I wouldn't underestimate them - they'll do everything to improve the dance. As Scott said himself in the press conference.
C/B: I'm not the biggest fan of the music choice, but this dance does suit them. I liked their performing in Japan. For me personally C/B are way better than the Shibutanis - not technically speaking, just my preferencies. The Shibs are amazingly consistent but I cannot help but wish they tried for once to be less consistent and to show more emotions/be more into the program. I don't mean it in a bad way and I've nothing against them, it's just how I feel after seing their dances.

And she needs a different dress. What she has now is boring, not much style.

Especially for the SD, please. The one she had this weekend was just everything but working for the program. I went hand in hand with her earings, if that was her intention, but that was all.

 

[cocotaffy]

However, two months are a long time and I wouldn't underestimate them - they'll do everything to improve the dance. As Scott said himself in the press conference.

Oh absolutely, nothing is for certain and they'll be very eager to make a statement. They might be even more dangerous now than if they were comfortably seating at the top. This season is exhausting, good thing the Olympics are only once in four years

 

[Amantide]

There are probably a lot of other strategies to try to improve this FD.
But V/M must be quick. Because here lies the crux of their problem.

How about no lyrics at all? I think it will improve a bit.

In anycase, V&M should be ahead of P&C in SS an TR. As for PE and IN, I don't know what's missing in V&M tbh. For me it is cheesy, but MR is cheesy after all. Why on earth they went with it I have no idea.

 

[Tak]

I kind of agree with this. As a program, I don't think MR is as strong as Beethoven. And I agree it somehow doesn't seem to be a coherent whole. I first saw this at SC and didn't see the movie or know the story and it was totally confusing. They went from a very angry and hard-driving tango to a lyrical, romantic R& J type ending that just looked like 2 different dances stuck together. I was ?????

My husband had to explain the story to me and then I got what the dance was trying to do, but I still feel artistically that change is too abrupt and just doesn't work. To try to fix it, I would forget the idea of trying to tell the story of the movie and just do a tango. The tango is about 2/3's of the dance anyway [or it seems to me that way, I didn't time it]. It's also the strongest part of the program by far IMO. It's hard driving and they dance with a lot of attitude and conviction - and right to the music - I like that! I'd just go with the tango and come up with a real WOW! ending.

I don't like the vocals either, but in this case they really use the vocals well and everything is choreographed to fit, so I wouldnt change the music now. I'd leave the music but just extend the tango part - and keep the attitude and the hard-edge!

BTW, I thought David Wilson choreographed this dance for them. Who were the 3 choreographers who worked on it? Did someone do the tango and someone else the lyrical ending? I could understand that from the way it looks.

 

[debo]

The press conference after the dance event.

https://youtu.be/8GZpIX5Cssg

Lots of depression and sad faces except for the dudes in the middle.

 

[marbri]

I kind of agree with this. As a program, I don't think MR is as strong as Beethoven. And I agree it somehow doesn't seem to be a coherent whole. I first saw this at SC and didn't see the movie or know the story and it was totally confusing. They went from a very angry and hard-driving tango to a lyrical, romantic R& J type ending that just looked like 2 different dances stuck together. I was ?????

My husband had to explain the story to me and then I got what the dance was trying to do, but I still feel artistically that change is too abrupt and just doesn't work. To try to fix it, I would forget the idea of trying to tell the story of the movie and just do a tango. The tango is about 2/3's of the dance anyway [or it seems to me that way, I didn't time it]. It's also the strongest part of the program by far IMO. It's hard driving and they dance with a lot of attitude and conviction - and right to the music - I like that! I'd just go with the tango and come up with a real WOW! ending.

I don't like the vocals either, but in this case they really use the vocals well and everything is choreographed to fit, so I wouldnt change the music now. I'd leave the music but just extend the tango part - and keep the attitude and the hard-edge!

BTW, I thought David Wilson choreographed this dance for them. Who were the 3 choreographers who worked on it? Did someone do the tango and someone else the lyrical ending? I could understand that from the way it looks.

MF Dubreuil, David Wilson and Sam Chouinard work as a team and have since they returned. Sam also works with MF with other teams as well. They don't divide programs into thirds and each take a section, they work together. Sam is a dancer, not a skater so it's really no different than MF making P/C´s program and bringing in Cirio to add hand movements. They used to work with Sam last season as well.

 

[Amantide]

I kind of agree with this. As a program, I don't think MR is as strong as Beethoven. And I agree it somehow doesn't seem to be a coherent whole. I first saw this at SC and didn't see the movie or know the story and it was totally confusing. They went from a very angry and hard-driving tango to a lyrical, romantic R& J type ending that just looked like 2 different dances stuck together. I was ?????

My husband had to explain the story to me and then I got what the dance was trying to do, but I still feel artistically that change is too abrupt and just doesn't work. To try to fix it, I would forget the idea of trying to tell the story of the movie and just do a tango. The tango is about 2/3's of the dance anyway [or it seems to me that way, I didn't time it]. It's also the strongest part of the program by far IMO. It's hard driving and they dance with a lot of attitude and conviction - and right to the music - I like that! I'd just go with the tango and come up with a real WOW! ending.

I don't like the vocals either, but in this case they really use the vocals well and everything is choreographed to fit, so I wouldnt change the music now. I'd leave the music but just extend the tango part - and keep the attitude and the hard-edge!

I agree with Nmsis, switch places and end it with the Tango. As for the lyrics, keep them for Roxane part but not the other one. First of all, Ewan McGregor is not a great singer and as I said it is too cheesy. Having just the music will be an improvement. Having said that, I am not sure if it will make a huge difference whatever they do. IMO, programs with no interruptions, which are not fragmented always work better - when they are done well of course - because there is a flow that keep going from the beginning to end. The attention is there the whole time and that draws you in. This is not just in ID but Pairs and Singles as well. Although we don't see that often, especially in Pairs and Singles.

 

[Spun Silver]

I agree with Nmsis, switch places and end it with the Tango. As for the lyrics, keep them for Roxane part but not the other one. First of all, Ewan McGregor is not a great singer and as I said it is too cheesy. Having just the music will be an improvement. Having said that, I am not sure if it will make a huge difference whatever they do. IMO, programs with no interruptions, which are not fragmented always work better - when they are done well of course - because there is a flow that keep going from the beginning to end. The attention is there the whole time and that draws you in. This is not just in ID but Pairs and Singles as well. Although we don't see that often, especially in Pairs and Singles.

Isn't that an argument for just doing the Tango though? I realize it wouldn't show any of V/M's lyrical side which is a pity but it would have the virtue of being a total contrast to P/C, and also the unity you're talking about.

 

[Amantide]

Isn't that an argument for just doing the Tango though? I realize it wouldn't show any of V/M's lyrical side which is a pity but it would have the virtue of being a total contrast to P/C, and also the unity you're talking about.

No the idea was to switch places. Start with the cheesy part and end with the Tango. I believe that's what Nmsis was saying. They cannot just do the tango cause that's not the whole program, and it is a bit late to do a new choreo and make the whole program a tango. So yeah, the program will still have 2 parts.

 

[Spun Silver]

No the idea was to switch places. Start with the cheesy part and end with the Tango. I believe that's what Nmsis was saying. They cannot just do the tango cause that's not the whole program, and it is a bit late to do a new choreo and make the whole program a tango. So yeah, the program will still have 2 parts.

I understand NMSIS's suggestion although it is hard to make sense of (for me) but I was tentatively agreeing with Tak that the Tango alone would at least be coherent, and also picking up on your own point that the strongest programs have just one piece of music. I agree with that.

 

[Amantide]

I understand NMSIS's suggestion although it is hard to make sense of (for me) but I was tentatively agreeing with Tak that the Tango alone would at least be coherent, and also picking up on your own point that the strongest programs have just one piece of music. I agree with that.

I believe Nmsis was giving a suggestion how to improve it, with what they have now. If the program was to be a whole Tango even better, IMO.
I am not sure if they have enough time for that though. Assuming they are willing to change the whole concept now.

 

[Amantide]

p.s. But we're talking about apples and oranges here, if I am being honest. I do not like MR but I am not crazy about Moonlight either. Both are meh....nothing new or unique. The only reason I go with the the Moonlight is because of the flow it has.