The Dance Hall 5: Ice Dance Fans 2017-2018

[Nmsis]

But in the case of MR, what would we be looking at? I mean, how do you envision the story line of the dance if she dies first? She comes back from the dead and they do this angry, driving, very hard edge dance together? That doesn't make any kind of sense.

Let's try.

Satine dies, leaving Christian (not sure it's the right name) devastated.
Her spirit comes back to comfort him. She brings him back to the romance memories they shared which apease him for a moment but still leave him in dispair.
Then she reminds him of her essence /shakes him with memories of her as a strong, fierce, proud woman with an apetite for life and no room for self pity and that is this legacy/memory of her that he will carry and treasure from then on.

The end



That was the " make up your ice dance scenario " moment.
Twas fun.

We should have a thread like that. Someone gathers 3 random pieces of music and the next poster must make an ice dance scenario out of them. And gather 3 other random pieces of music for the next poster.

But seriously, I think the switching of the parts would be doable.

That said, we should see their definitive strategy at Canadian Nats.
That's only in 4 weeks and a half.

 

[kittysk8ts]

Of course it was. Silly of me to compare the two really.

Giggle.

 

[Amantide]

We should have a thread like that. Someone gathers 3 random pieces of music and the next poster must make an ice dance scenario out of them. And gather 3 other random pieces of music for the next poster.

I like this.

 

[Tak]

I like this.

So do I.

 

[firstflight]

Wow. As someone who only tangentially followed the JGP this season as compared to the past few seasons when the WIDA teams were competing, I am thankful to everyone who's pointed out how interesting the junior programs are; You are all absolutely right.
Just watch this playlist of the JGPF free-dances:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvykjutjA4c&list=PLuB703eaMDlLB2OHd-JD4zxXAGQS76rof

It's like watching a different discipline. So many interesting positions in lifts and spins. Raw abandon. Exaggerated leans on edges. Super fast and/or unique twizzle sequences. Fast on other rotations and fast when needed in the choreography. Captivating music selections. And even a "Black Swan" that's a refreshing, immersed take? Or having the man do a flexible solo spin to end your program?

Maybe C/P had the most "conventional" senior-type program, but I've enjoyed their program too over the course of the season, with a more organic use of the music than Bobrova/Soloviev. The entire FD competition at JGPF was just so fun to watch.

 

[Daena]

We should have a thread like that. Someone gathers 3 random pieces of music and the next poster must make an ice dance scenario out of them. And gather 3 other random pieces of music for the next poster.

Guys... Let's do it!

 

[Spun Silver]

Guys... Let's do it!

Here ya go. Hope it's what you had in mind.
https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/yarns-of-gold-the-real-stories-of-ice-dance.102625/

 

[EYGH]

Wow. As someone who only tangentially followed the JGP this season as compared to the past few seasons when the WIDA teams were competing, I am thankful to everyone who's pointed out how interesting the junior programs are; You are all absolutely right.
Just watch this playlist of the JGPF free-dances:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvykjutjA4c&list=PLuB703eaMDlLB2OHd-JD4zxXAGQS76rof

It's like watching a different discipline. So many interesting positions in lifts and spins. Raw abandon. Exaggerated leans on edges. Super fast and/or unique twizzle sequences. Fast on other rotations and fast when needed in the choreography. Captivating music selections. And even a "Black Swan" that's a refreshing, immersed take? Or having the man do a flexible solo spin to end your program?

Maybe C/P had the most "conventional" senior-type program, but I've enjoyed their program too over the course of the season, with a more organic use of the music than Bobrova/Soloviev. The entire FD competition at JGPF was just so fun to watch.

Yeah there are seriously talented kids coming up. The Young ones are daring and creative. The topper has poped up to free the new generation.

It reminds me of American football, college football is often more exciting than the pro level.

 

[text_skate]

This morning I had some spare time and watched JGP FDs. I was impressed, particularly by those three teams who finished 2nd to 4th place. I'm thrilled to see them grow. I wasn't convinced by the winners S/A. Probably because I was bored by their tango. Tango by Gotan is one of the overused pieces.

Btw overused music: This Black Swan from P/V drew me in the minute they started. I never thought I would like one Swan again in figure skating.

 

[Bigbird]

This is my favourite tango from the JGP series, a young team from Canada. I find S/A's rather bland and really didn't understand their win I thought C/P beat them on the night, but hey it is what it is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76_FtieBUu0 It's also done very effectively to MR. Hmmm....

 

[professordeb]

This is my favourite tango from the JGP series, a young team from Canada. I find S/A's rather bland and really didn't understand their win I thought C/P beat them on the night, but hey it is what it is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76_FtieBUu0 It's also done very effectively to MR. Hmmm....

Thank you for the link, thoroughly enjoyed that skate. And the animation in the KnC - fantabulous!

 

[firstflight]

Thank you for the link, thoroughly enjoyed that skate. And the animation in the KnC - fantabulous!

I shouldn't have read the comment section below. What is wrong with people?!

 

[barbarafan]

This is my favourite tango from the JGP series, a young team from Canada. I find S/A's rather bland and really didn't understand their win I thought C/P beat them on the night, but hey it is what it is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76_FtieBUu0 It's also done very effectively to MR. Hmmm....

Love this dance team as well. Hope they do well at nationals. The JGP dancers were totally amazing. That is why when posters r saying Ice dance is dead in Russia I cringe. They have so many great teams coming up.

 

[Bigbird]

Love this dance team as well. Hope they do well at nationals. The JGP dancers were totally amazing. That is why when posters r saying Ice dance is dead in Russia I cringe. They have so many great teams coming up.

This team is Canadian though. They would crucify her in Russia as being too fat. Only skinny girls are allowed to dance in Russia.

 

[barbarafan]

This team is Canadian though. They would crucify her in Russia as being too fat. Only skinny girls are allowed to dance in Russia.

Yes they are cdn...but when you watch the JGP there are lots of terrific Russian Ice Dancers...AT the final I believe there were 1 cdn, 1 us, and 4 Russians.

 

[Bigbird]

Yes they are cdn...but when you watch the JGP there are lots of terrific Russian Ice Dancers...AT the final I believe there were 1 cdn, 1 us, and 4 Russians.

Oh yes, I especially like the pair that skated to Be Italian. I think they are Arina and Maxim. They're quite young but very evenly matched, more so than all the other pairs with the exception maybe of the winners.

 

[Dobre]

Oh yes, I especially like the pair that skated to Be Italian. I think they are Arina and Maxim. They're quite young but very evenly matched, more so than all the other pairs with the exception maybe of the winners.

I find Ushakova & Nekrasov interesting this season. They are giving me Grishuk & Platov vibes--particularly the FD. Which is ironic because G&P are without question my favorite dance team of all time, and I'm not even sure whether I like U&N as a team yet. But technically, that free dance is packed in a very G&P type way. I'm ready for U&N to actually get a costume budget in which he isn't stuck in a t-shirt, but I'm curious about how they will develop. I didn't like their programs last season at all, but I definitely like their current free dance to Be Italian.

Fabbri & Pietrantonio are actually my favorite Canadian junior team right now. (I liked their SD last season as well). This season, they split 1st place results at Skate Canada Challenge, which is very significant. Lajoie & Lagha weren't there and are probably a lock for Junior Worlds so the battle is likely once again for second place at Canadian Nationals. Canada only has two berths at Junior Worlds. Currently, it looks like a fight between Stairs & Royer, Fabbri & Pietrantonio, and Fisher & Mallette-Paquette for second place. I like Stairs & Royer also, but I think Fabbri & Pietrantonio have the edge in presentation. I would say S&R have the edge on consistency.

I believe Fabbri & Pietrantonio age out of juniors after this season, along with Skoptcova & Aleshin and Shpilevaya & Smirnov.

 

[binbinwinwin]

Glad I'm not the only one who got Grishuk/Platov vibes from Ushakova/Nekrasov. I like them, I think they're a charming team who needs to be polished, but I've seen some great edges from them and they just need to be nurtured carefully for the future.

For the second JW spot McIsaac/Graham finished above Fisher/Malette-Paquette at Skate Canada Challenge, I think they're a long shot for the second JW spot but I would love to see them make it as an alternate. So disappointed that they only got 1 JGP event this season.

 

[Dobre]

For the second JW spot McIsaac/Graham finished above Fisher/Malette-Paquette at Skate Canada Challenge, I think they're a long shot for the second JW spot but I would love to see them make it as an alternate. So disappointed that they only got 1 JGP event this season.

Galiyanova & Tang were ahead of Fabbri & Pietrantonio after the SD as well. (Looks like F&P missed the twizzles in the SD). I think it will probably come down to Stairs & Royer vs. Fabbri & Pietrantonio; but I'm a little wary of saying so with the placements we've seen thus far. F&P seem a bit too susceptible to large mistakes. And I tend to underestimate where McIsaac & Graham and Fisher & Mallette-Paquette should finish.

 

[Lutzlvr]

Glad I'm not the only one who got Grishuk/Platov vibes from Ushakova/Nekrasov. I like them, I think they're a charming team who needs to be polished, but I've seen some great edges from them and they just need to be nurtured carefully for the future.

For the second JW spot McIsaac/Graham finished above Fisher/Malette-Paquette at Skate Canada Challenge, I think they're a long shot for the second JW spot but I would love to see them make it as an alternate. So disappointed that they only got 1 JGP event this season.

I am quickly becoming a fan of U/N- they are both fantastic performers and skaters for their age. I love their FD - fun, energetic, aggressive - and that lift is WOW jaw-dropping good! He is quite a bit taller but it works (helps that he has great knees).
As for the 2nd, JW spot, I like all of the above teams but my bet is on F/P. They have a great and dramatic FD and probably have a slight edge on the other teams if they skate clean.

 

[text_skate]

Your comments about Ushakova & Nekrasov made me rewatch their FD. This time I watched more intentional than casual aka just for the fun of it. You're right: excellent program, innovative and real performers.

 

[Katha]

Finally watched the the freedances of most of the top teams. Gotta say, Beethoven is really safe for P/C, that's true.....But I appreciate the fast section and that they match the intensity of the music there. So much of their style is tied up in "soft, floaty, soft, floaty", it's good that they broke out of that at least a bit. IMO it's also a really convincing performance of drama, of something more dynamic, they've often struggled in the past when there was a change of pace.

No matter the outcome at the Olys, I'm super glad V/M have come back. The problem in the field right now isn't even P/C, it's that much of the rest of the field has started to follow their example like lemmings and it feels like there's an overabundance of twinkling, soft programs. For years now. So good for V/M for coming back and doing something slightly different. Also, I think the FD is really improving, perhaps it will gel together as a whole by the Olys. The tango section is sublime and the ending actually looked promising in the GPF. Changing too much now also has the risk of totally backfiring and making the program weaker. I also think their costumes there were perfect. And Scott finally has good hair again. I approve. I also kinda approve of their trolling in the SD. "Sympathy for the devil" indeed....

The rest of the field is...nice, but kinda sedate IMO. The Shibs had a breakthrough with "Fix You" and then for me never built on that. I don't get H/D, though I know they're good. C/L have skated that one program so often throughout the years...yes, they do it well. But I'm not interested anymore. C/B's FD would vastly improve if they just used John Lennon's version of the song. I kinda like the FDs of the three top Russian pairs. Yes, it's all very 90ies (or 80ies in the case of S/B), but at least it has a slightly different feel than the other twinkling FDs and IMO that makes it more charming. It's more grandiose, dramz twinkling, if that makes sense.

 

[barbarafan]

Galiyanova & Tang were ahead of Fabbri & Pietrantonio after the SD as well. (Looks like F&P missed the twizzles in the SD). I think it will probably come down to Stairs & Royer vs. Fabbri & Pietrantonio; but I'm a little wary of saying so with the placements we've seen thus far. F&P seem a bit too susceptible to large mistakes. And I tend to underestimate where McIsaac & Graham and Fisher & Mallette-Paquette should finish.

I really like McIsaac & Graham as well.I loved his former partner as well and was really sad when she decided to discontinue skating. I think McIsaac had justed started out with the beginning of this season but each time out there is a really big improvement so I am looking for them to be picked seriously next year for G.P. She has a beautiful airy presentation.

 

[sap5]

Nope. IMHO.
V/M are getting the second spot because their FD doesn't work.
More precisely, it doesn't work as well as V/M thought it would.
In the GPF thread, @allezfred said that when they watch their score coming up, V/M don't understand why their FD isn't scoring higher.

They are (were ?) convinced they have the perfect vehicle.
I'm convinced it is an error. Even before seeing it, after reading V/M's early interviews, I had questions.
And when I first saw the program at Autumn Classic, I thought it wasn't working. Parts were working. Some parts were impressive. But as a whole, a deflated baloon.
And I wondered how they would change things to make it work.

They fined tune the interpretation, the costumes, some details and by Skate Canada (basically, they scrapped the drama), it started working. The balloon was inflating. To a limit.
That is not a problem in itself but when the neighbours' balloon makes their house fly, no wonder that's where the gazes are going.

Why doesn't Moulin Rouge Balloon "work" more ?
Because it is incoherent. It is a V/M idea / canvass with 3 choreographers to embellish it, but no one in the lead to put some coherence / concept in it.

As drama, it doesn't work. The choreo has no transition between parts to justify a change of mood/tone.
A woman and a man "fight" / they are in love, it is so cute / she dies. That's it. No transition, no dramatic justification.
So when they played for the drama at the Autumn Cup, the program felt blah and dramatically "underserved" after the first part.

As a concept program based on a story, it works. That's how they have skated it from Skate Canada.
But what is the concept ? Moulin Rouge is a metaphor of V/M's career.
Ok, nice.
But it feels artificial and it doesn't build up. The momentum is in the first part. The second part is nice but feels more bland (and refers to V/M's earlier days while the tango refers to later Carmen).
And in the end, she slowly dies / they leave (and I absolutly don't care about it, which I suppose is not the goal *sound of deflating balloon*).
The more it lasts, the less I'm involved.
Is it metaphoric for their career ? Starting from the highest point to end with a whisper is not the kind of metaphor they want for their program / career.

And V/M thought they had the perfect idea, the perfect set of choreographers, the perfect everything. While the key problem is how they constructed the program from the very begining. No main choreographer, no coherence, no POV, no interest built.

Now is it fixable ?
I explained how I'd do it in the GPF thread (split the parts of the choreo and "play them in reverse", starting with the death and ending with the tango so it would end with a BANG, Tessa rising back like a phoenix, the same way they want to end their career).
There are probably a lot of other strategies to try to improve this FD.
But V/M must be quick. Because here lies the crux of their problem.

I don't think MR is a metaphor for their career. According to previous interviews, they wanted to do a program that showed passion, drama, romance (but not lyrical/Mahler style) and have an unconventional ending.

That's a lot to show in 4 min. And certainly harder to put together than a program that is one concept on a single piece of music. But I don't think that splitting the choreo and playing things in reverse, or other types of dramatic changes would really improve anything at this point. And I don't think they are necessary either.

The story they're trying to tell isn't that incomprehensible: two people have tension between them, then they fall in love, then there's a sad ending. IMO, (and I've posted this before) if they foreshadow each section of the story through choreo, the whole thing will tie together.

The best way to hook an audience into a story program is to have them anticipate what comes next, but be excited to see how that next happens. If they can add something in the tango to show that these two characters will fall in love, then the audience will want to see how they get past the strong tension to the love. And when the love begins, it won't be jarring because we knew it was coming. Similarly, if they can show that there will be more to the story than just a happy ending when they get to Come What May, then people will want to see what will happen.

As for scores, if everything has already been decided in advance, then there's nothing more to say about that. But I do think this program still has quite the potential to come alive, and if some judges are still open to that, then I don't think this is a done deal.

 

[Bigbird]

I don't think MR is a metaphor for their career. According to previous interviews, they wanted to do a program that showed passion, drama, romance (but not lyrical/Mahler style) and have an unconventional ending.

That's a lot to show in 4 min. And certainly harder to put together than a program that is one concept on a single piece of music. But I don't think that splitting the choreo and playing things in reverse, or other types of dramatic changes would really improve anything at this point. And I don't think they are necessary either.

The story they're trying to tell isn't that incomprehensible: two people have tension between them, then they fall in love, then there's a sad ending. IMO, (and I've posted this before) if they foreshadow each section of the story through choreo, the whole thing will tie together.

The best way to hook an audience into a story program is to have them anticipate what comes next, but be excited to see how that next happens. If they can add something in the tango to show that these two characters will fall in love, then the audience will want to see how they get past the strong tension to the love. And when the love begins, it won't be jarring because we knew it was coming. Similarly, if they can show that there will be more to the story than just a happy ending when they get to Come What May, then people will want to see what will happen.

As for scores, if everything has already been decided in advance, then there's nothing more to say about that. But I do think this program still has quite the potential to come alive, and if some judges are still open to that, then I don't think this is a done deal.

I could not have said it any better. They just have a very demanding FD, in just the same way as their OD was in Vancouver. If it isn't delivered just right it misses the mark. I hope they deliver the performances of their career come PC. If they win they win, but come what may, they've had a brilliant career.

 

[Dobre]

I really like McIsaac & Graham as well.

They have my second least favorite SD music. Period. I find it ironic that both of my least favorite Latin selections belong to Canadian junior dance teams, but that's the way it is this season. They're a new team, and I don't appreciate them yet; but I'm totally comfortable with giving them time to win me over.

 

[VGThuy]

I'm reading that V/M's FD is more difficult to comprehend than P/C's FD. I don't think MR is a difficult story to get at all and in fact it's pretty literal and easy to get. I just don't know if it's successful in bringing out the emotions that they are obviously intending it to bring out because they're trying to say a lot in 4 minutes and I'm not sure if there's enough breathing room to let the audience really soak it in and I'm not sure if the construction is the most successful in telling the dtory. And as acknowledged by others, it's also a very technically-demanding and dense piece of choreography so there's a lot more to pay attention to outside the story that I wonder if that busy quality hinders some people's appreciation of the program. I also wonder how many are actually carefully watching the program to notice the intricacies and how many are just finding things to judge about it and running with that.

 

[mollymgr]

I thought the first section was portrayal of the villain(s) in the story. The second part was supposed to be Christian and Satine.

 

[VGThuy]

I took the first section as showing Christian/Satine in conflict with all the tension between the two lovers with Scott showing off Christian's jealousy. Then they make up during the vagina in face lift (dance imagery of sex...image showing oral) and it's their reconciliation and declaration of love and that come what may they will always love each other. However, that's short lived as she's dying and then she dies. It's not supposed to be a scene-by-scene portrayal of the movie but a skating program that is a take on the movie. They skip the falling in love in the beginning part and rather start with an existing couple in conflict and then making up and then having a tragic end.

 

[barbarafan]

I took the first section as showing Christian/Satine in conflict with all the tension between the two lovers with Scott showing off Christian's jealousy. Then they make up during the vagina in face lift (dance imagery of sex...image showing oral) and it's their reconciliation and declaration of love and that come what may they will always love each other. However, that's short lived as she's dying and then she dies. It's not supposed to be a scene-by-scene portrayal of the movie but a skating program that is a take on the movie. They skip the falling in love in the beginning part and rather start with an existing couple in conflict and then making up and then having a tragic end.

I think you have a really disgusting view. The lift represents conflict ...a fight...not hot monkey sex. It is fine if you do not like them as a team and if you really hate their music and programs. But pls try to keep your head out of the toilet.