The Dance Hall 13: When You Dance on the Ice and Your Feet Twizzle Twice, That's Amore

[PRlady]

Just to point out that a “scandalous” ice dance result in Milan matters not to the vast majority of people watching. I mean, it’s not like rioters will storm ISU headquarters to demand a recount of results and attack the Swiss police. Unless there are falls or really obvious mistakes from the top teams, most people will not be able to explain the results one way or another.

 

[Peepsquick]

I know it takes a lot of time but I loved the clips and explanations. any chance you could do a full rescore of an event like GPF FD or RD or would you have to end up in witness protection?

I would love that too! I must also say that I am floored by the level of gratuitous slander floating around in some comments.

 

[skipaway]

Just to point out that a “scandalous” ice dance result in Milan matters not to the vast majority of people watching. I mean, it’s not like rioters will storm ISU headquarters to demand a recount of results and attack the Swiss police. Unless there are falls or really obvious mistakes from the top teams, most people will not be able to explain the results one way or another.

Hearken back to Salt Lake City with the media (NBC/Canada) stirring the pot regarding the Pairs competition. All my non-skating friends and relatives were locked on the narrative of the evil Russians unfairly beating those sweet natured Canadians. I can see a similar issue if the unfair block judging is trumpeted when NBC’s favorites don’t win. I will have to explain over and over to them what’s happened and why.

 

[Wyliefan]

Well, Rettstatt wanted ice dance to go viral. Guess he wished on a monkey's paw.

It's not just the scoring, either. Wait till the every-four-years crowd finds out about Lolo's banned boyfriend.

 

[clairecloutier]

Just to point out that a “scandalous” ice dance result in Milan matters not to the vast majority of people watching. I mean, it’s not like rioters will storm ISU headquarters to demand a recount of results and attack the Swiss police. Unless there are falls or really obvious mistakes from the top teams, most people will not be able to explain the results one way or another.

Hearken back to Salt Lake City with the media (NBC/Canada) stirring the pot regarding the Pairs competition. All my non-skating friends and relatives were locked on the narrative of the evil Russians unfairly beating those sweet natured Canadians. I can see a similar issue if the unfair block judging is trumpeted when NBC’s favorites don’t win.

Skating writer Rob Brodie published a column recently on the potentially serious implications of what's happening with ice dance right now. I think he raised some really good points ... In particular, that the sport has never really recovered from the 2002 Olympic scandal. And that another similar-level scandal could be just as damaging. I hope someone at the ISU is paying attention to all this.

Are we really doing this again?

Canadian ice dancer Piper Gilles spoke for a lot of people when she called out the judging shenanigans at Finlandia Trophy. The question now is will anyone do anything about it

rwbrodiewrites.substack.com

 

[Private Citizen]

I hope someone at the ISU is paying attention to all this.

What would people like the ISU to do, other than fix the competition so that their favorites win?

The rules are vague and open to interpretation. The scoring overvalues minutiae and provides false precision. Pretty much anything can be justified or debated. You can't rewrite the rules or come up with new interpretations of them in the middle of the Olympic season because skaters or the media don't like the results so far.

I'm yet to be convinced that all of this whining and complaining is about fair play. It seems to be an attempt to use media pressure to influence the judging in a biased direction.

Yes, it's exactly what happened with Bourne and Kraatz. Yes, the results were fixed. But Canada was also on maneuvers and guilty of cheating (as proven by Senft's recording). So the "bloc" went on the offensive and took B&K out early so that Anissina and Peizerat would get the bronze medal they deserved. Both sides were cheating. One outplayed the other. Right result, wrong way of getting to it.

I suspect something similar is going on this season. And will probably go on forever with ice dance, which is just not possible to quantify the way the other disciplines are.

 

[deegee]

Well, Rettstatt wanted ice dance to go viral. Guess he wished on a monkey's paw.

It's not just the scoring, either. Wait till the every-four-years crowd finds out about Lolo's banned boyfriend.

maybe them finding out is the thing that needs to happen for real, impactful changes in figure skating culture that truly does hold the well-being and safety of the skaters over results/potential results.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

I wish the media articles about dance judging focused on the issues with the how the dance rules are written and how problematic they are in terms of what kinds of skills they prioritize, rather than focus on which big named teams are apparently being "robbed." The fact that an ID team can earn massive GOE for a crowd-pleasing but relatively easy "sliding move" or other "choreo" elements in the FD and the ridiculousness of the the last 3 years of rhythm dance themes need way more scrutiny. The Skating Session has done a great job of showing real examples of where the judges appear to not be applying the rubrics when it comes to assigning GEO but, unfortunately, I don't think most sports journalists are capable of doing the same.

 

[Wyliefan]

maybe them finding out is the thing that needs to happen for real, impactful changes in figure skating culture that truly does hold the well-being and safety of the skaters over results/potential results.

I would like to think so. Sometimes scandals flare up and die away, but sometimes they do lead to change.

 

[nuge]

I think its far more interesting to wonder who are going to be the world champs. Who's going to retire after olympics? If they win will CB be off? If FBS win surely theyll have to be given the world title too? If both teams retire will GP and GF stay to make a last attempt? If they all retire can you even think about FG as world champs yet ?

 

[Rhumba d’Amour]

I think it’s far more interesting to wonder who are going to be the world champs. Who's going to retire after olympics? If they win will CB be off? If FBS win surely theyll have to be given the world title too? If both teams retire will GP and GF stay to make a last attempt? If they all retire can you even think about FG as world champs yet ?

I hope FB/C will go to Worlds to try to earn a third spot for France next year, and I think GP kind of have to go, to ensure Canada doesn’t lose its third spot.

I’m not sure Italy needs extra spots, so GF can safely sit this out if they want. CB can also probably skip this, secure in the knowledge that the US teams who don’t receive an Olympic slot will arrive at post-Olympic Worlds hellbent on showing what they are made of.

 

[BittyBug]

I wish the media articles about dance judging focused on the issues with the how the dance rules are written and how problematic they are in terms of what kinds of skills they prioritize, rather than focus on which big named teams are apparently being "robbed." The fact that an ID team can earn massive GOE for a crowd-pleasing but relatively easy "sliding move" or other "choreo" elements in the FD and the ridiculousness of the the last 3 years of rhythm dance themes need way more scrutiny.

I completely understand your lament, but from a dispassionate perspective, is it really a problem? The rules as currently written prioritize certain skills and that's the basis of the playing field. You might not like it, so it's a problem for you as a purist, but it's not necessarily a problem from the perspective of sport as a competition with rules. The real problem is what you later identified:

The Skating Session has done a great job of showing real examples of where the judges appear to not be applying the rubrics when it comes to assigning GEO but, unfortunately, I don't think most sports journalists are capable of doing the same.

The challenge here is column space and attention spans. Could the analysis be condensed to 3 minutes? I'm skeptical.

 

[tony]

The challenge here is column space and attention spans. Could the analysis be condensed to 3 minutes? I'm skeptical.

The ISU isn’t going to do it. We saw how Mark had that long pause when Ted questioned him in the free dance at GPF. Tara and Johnny ‘don’t know shit about ice dance’ in his own words. The powers that be at NBC aren’t going to do anything but angle it to Chock & Bates benefit, as we already saw with their Skate America comparison. Which I don’t expect anything less but trying to insist they just go slow on one element to ‘hit the levels’ is

So no, no one is gonna do it.