Russian Figure Skater tests positive for drugs - delays ceremony for team medals

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Karen-W

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And the bronze medal to either Chock/Bates or Guignard/Fabbri.
Why? Do you think they were better than SinKats? The argument for giving HubDon the silver doesn't necessarily mean SinKats were undeserving of bronze does it?
 

skatingguy

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I heard today that the IOC has decided to allow Russian athletes to compete as neutral at the next Summer Olympics.
I guess they’ve forgotten about the war.
it will be interesting to see if the same holds true for the Winter Olympics.
It's been discussed in this thread:
 

Coco

Rotating while Russian!
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Honestly, I would be surprised if the Paris Games happen due to Russia's continuing invasion of Ukraine and Israel's response to Hamas.

The security costs are going to be astronomical. If they let Russian athletes in, it may be a craven ploy to prevent attacks. But I think it is far too much to ask of athletes in the village to be side by side with citizens of a nation that is attacking their country.
 

taz'smum

'Be Kind' - every skater has their own story
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Honestly, I would be surprised if the Paris Games happen due to Russia's continuing invasion of Ukraine and Israel's response to Hamas.

The security costs are going to be astronomical. If they let Russian athletes in, it may be a craven ploy to prevent attacks. But I think it is far too much to ask of athletes in the village to be side by side with citizens of a nation that is attacking their country.

France is putting major security measures into place.

They are planning to close the airspace over Paris during the Opening Ceremony, there will be 150,000 troops drafted in and AI controlled surveillance. Also, parts of Paris around events will be closed off to cars. This is only the security measures I've heard of, I am sure there will be many, many more!

One thing that will help security, is that at that time of year, Paris is normally a bit of a ghost town with everyone having gone on holiday.
 

Mugs

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Mugs

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Why? Do you think they were better than SinKats? The argument for giving HubDon the silver doesn't necessarily mean SinKats were undeserving of bronze does it?
I thought SinKats program was a hot mess and did not deserve a podium finish. Especially considering the weird ending portion of their program. To me it looked like they took two different thoughts/directions/inspirations/programs, sliced and diced them and put some of the pieces back together to create an incomplete program that fulfilled the time requirements. I would have had Hubbell and Donohue in Silver position and Chock and Bates in Bronze position. I'm sure this has been debated already - JMO.
 

Debbie S

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I would have had Hubbell and Donohue in Silver position and Chock and Bates in Bronze position. I'm sure this has been debated already - JMO.
Yes, it has. :)

If S/K hadn't been Russian and C/B had been anything other than American, that likely would have happened. But it's the Olys, there's the Russian fed politiks plus general politiks that make 2 USA dance teams on the podium a non-possibility.

It doesn't surprise me that Bach figured out a way to get Russians back in the Olys, just in time for the next Olys. :blah:
 

coppertop1

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I felt like SinKats free dance was confusing. They're doing Rachmaninoff then an Irish piece the back to classical. Very disjointed
They both repulse me. I hope I never see them again in international competition.
Hearing the Russians say they want a fair hearing makes me feel like quoting my dad (paraphrasing what he said): Give them a fair trial and then ban them

We got a really good look at just how entrenched sports and politics are in Russia and it was ugly, and the more they pitch fits about being baned the longer they should stay in out.
 

tony

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Firsr of all, the Irish jig jokes aside, the music was not an 'Irish piece'. It was a more modern recording of Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini, something that Ina and Zimmerman also used once upon a time (in their sudden revelation season, in fact). :lol: ETA so someone doesn't @ me. No, not the same recording.

I know I'm going to face endless backlash for my opinion, but I thought S/K were both skaters with great quality and very deserving of an Olympic medal. Sorry about it, C/B's strong 'theme' of a program (that even I loved) simply was nowhere near as complex or as well-skated, nor did they have the same strong foundations behind their skating like the Russians. It was so cool, but there's also elements and program components to judge (....in theory).
 
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caseyedwards

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Yes, it has. :)

If S/K hadn't been Russian and C/B had been anything other than American, that likely would have happened. But it's the Olys, there's the Russian fed politiks plus general politiks that make 2 USA dance teams on the podium a non-possibility.

It doesn't surprise me that Bach figured out a way to get Russians back in the Olys, just in time for the next Olys. :blah:
Except for 2018!! Same old Russians all stink and are never deserving of any medals and when then do medal it’s all politics they don’t deserve any success ever. I guess in 2018 they didn’t feel like medaling in dance
 

coppertop1

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Firsr of all, the Irish jig jokes aside, the music was not an 'Irish piece'. It was a more modern recording of Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini, something that Ina and Zimmerman also used once upon a time (in their sudden revelation season, in fact). :lol: ETA so someone doesn't @ me. No, not the same recording.

I know I'm going to face endless backlash for my opinion, but I thought S/K were both skaters with great quality and very deserving of an Olympic medal. Sorry about it, C/B's strong 'theme' of a program (that even I loved) simply was nowhere near as complex or as well-skated, nor did they have the same strong foundations behind their skating like the Russians. It was so cool, but there's also elements and program components to judge (....in theory).
I remember when they did the Android Lloyd Webber variation on Paginnini, maybe that's what it was. It's been a while since I've heard it, so I didn't recognise it
 

VGThuy

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Firsr of all, the Irish jig jokes aside, the music was not an 'Irish piece'. It was a more modern recording of Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini, something that Ina and Zimmerman also used once upon a time (in their sudden revelation season, in fact). :lol: ETA so someone doesn't @ me. No, not the same recording.

I know I'm going to face endless backlash for my opinion, but I thought S/K were both skaters with great quality and very deserving of an Olympic medal. Sorry about it, C/B's strong 'theme' of a program (that even I loved) simply was nowhere near as complex or as well-skated, nor did they have the same strong foundations behind their skating like the Russians. It was so cool, but there's also elements and program components to judge (....in theory).
I wouldn’t call Sinitsina/Katsalapov’s program very complex myself. It felt kind of simple with easier holds and more separations and that’s saying something because Chock/Bates aren’t known for those things either haha. If we want to judge purely out of complexity, then there’s a team below both of them that kind of had them beat there.

I’ll give you power and speed but I didn’t think S/K displayed much in the way of deep edges or interesting patterns or anything. It was just speed for speed’s sake.

I also want to put Irish jig jokes aside because it’s kind of insulting to Irish jig dancers. S/K were so bad hunching those shoulders like that. No sense of rhythm or conviction of dance during that choreo sequence. Just the usual Nikita rushing through movements.
 

On My Own

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Except for 2018!! Same old Russians all stink and are never deserving of any medals and when then do medal it’s all politics they don’t deserve any success ever. I guess in 2018 they didn’t feel like medaling in dance

FWIW, I thought Plushenko deserved to beat Lysacek in 2010. And that Takahashi deserved to beat both of them.

And IDER what Russians did in ID at 2018, which doesn't bode well for their medal contention. Was very happy T/M were off the podium at 2018 Pairs, and I actually found their LP to be less awful than their SP, which is saying something.

I don't really see why Chock and Bates were better than S/K at 2022. There's an entire RD that isn't being discussed, for some reason.
 

VGThuy

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FWIW, I thought Plushenko deserved to beat Lysacek in 2010. And that Takahashi deserved to beat both of them.

And IDER what Russians did in ID at 2018, which doesn't bode well for their medal contention. Was very happy T/M were off the podium at 2018 Pairs, and I actually found their LP to be less awful than their SP, which is saying something.

I don't really see why Chock and Bates were better than S/K at 2022. There's an entire RD that isn't being discussed, for some reason.
C/B were shaky in the RD, I’ll give you that, but I just think S/K are one of those teams where I feel like people are trying to convince me were much better than what I was seeing with my eyes.
 

On My Own

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C/B were shaky in the RD, I’ll give you that, but I just think S/K are one of those teams where I feel like people are trying to convince me were much better than what I was seeing with my eyes.

Even if they're not much better than what you were seeing with your eyes, it still means scores are scores, and they should get what they deserve. It doesn't depend on how talented they are, it depends on what was delivered on the day. C/B were shaky, and beyond that Chock's edge quality just isn't that great, and that absolutely showed up on the day. In a discipline that's based pretty much on skating skills, it's a spurious claim that they deserved to beat S/K.

I don't remember what G/F did. I do think there's a fair argument for H/D winning silver.

In general, I find this a strange thing from online skating fans and certain former skaters/commentators who have taken to doing podcasts nowadays, BTW. It seems the comments are based on one program and/or (perceived) talent, and not what's actually happened on the ice on the day.
 

VGThuy

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Even if they're not much better than what you were seeing with your eyes, it still means scores are scores, and they should get what they deserve. It doesn't depend on how talented they are, it depends on what was delivered on the day. C/B were shaky, and beyond that Chock's edge quality just isn't that great, and that absolutely showed up on the day. In a discipline that's based pretty much on skating skills, it's a spurious claim that they deserved to beat S/K.

I don't remember what G/F did. I do think there's a fair argument for H/D winning silver.

In general, I find this a strange thing from online skating fans and certain former skaters/commentators who have taken to doing podcasts nowadays, BTW. It seems the comments are based on one program and/or (perceived) talent, and not what's actually happened on the ice on the day.
I remember my feelings of that competition pretty well and those were my thoughts at the time and now. It’s not like people don’t groan about scores all the time on this forum. We choose when we want to support judges’ scores and when we don’t want to. Every competition has a lot of talented teams or skaters perform well and still score lower GOE and PCS over other skaters and people disagree.

And I already said my piece about skating skills and what their choreography displayed. I know some disagree with me, but it’s whatever. We all have been longtime watchers and many of us do our best to ground our opinions with our own studying of the sport and the rules.
 

On My Own

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I remember my feelings of that competition pretty well and those were my thoughts at the time and now. It’s not like people don’t groan about scores all the time on this forum. We choose when we want to support judges’ scores and when we don’t want to.
If you only mean to discuss scores, that's fine by me, but you yourself said
You probably disagree with me, but I don't think SinKats were an Olympic-medal caliber team. I'll just leave it at that as to not yuck other people's yum too much.
Which is why I pointed out what happened we need to consider what happened on the day (well or event), including the RD.
Nikita got "sympathy GOE" for his bad back, because S/K's lifts were in no league with C/B's lifts. :judge:
C/B must have got sympathy GOE and PCS for not being able to learn how to skate, then, I guess. Probably also why Ashley Wagner got higher skating skills scores than Miyahara and Asada at Boston 2016.
 

VGThuy

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If you only mean to discuss scores, that's fine by me, but you yourself said

Which is why I pointed out what happened we need to consider what happened on the day (well or event), including the RD.
C/B must have got sympathy GOE and PCS for not being able to learn how to skate, then, I guess. Probably also why Ashley Wagner got higher skating skills scores than Miyahara and Asada at Boston 2016.
I still stand by my statement. I think SinKats were below teams like Guignard/Fabri, Hawayek/Baker, and Gilles/Poirier in the FD to where Chock/Bates would have made up any deficit from the RD. I also don’t think S/K’s RD was all that great. I mean C/B skated the RD nervously but still scored over every other competitor except for like 3.

Not to mention SinKats scored about four points higher in the individual competition for their FD than they did in the team competition, which was at least double the increase other similarly-situated teams had despite SinKats’s base score being more-or-less the same in the team competition. Let’s also add that SinKats scored about three points higher in the RD for the individual, triple the point increase Hubbell/Donohue had, despite SinKats having a higher base value in the team competition RD than they did in the individual. And yes, I am accounting for the performance differences.

And regarding skating skills, SinKats had speed but I don’t see anything remarkable about their SS. And even if you give them that, there’s the way ice dance is judged based on itemized elements and where Lilah Fear can get a level 4 on blade-based elements.

There’s also four other PCS categories and though skating skills do affect those ones, there’s a reason they made sure to have categories that emphasized choreography, performance/execution, and interpretation aka dance/music intepretation-related categories.

But we can go in circles here and you’re free to think Chock/Bates are severely deficient in skating skills while SinKat’s are geniuses in skating skill.
 
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DreamSkates

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Honestly, I would be surprised if the Paris Games happen due to Russia's continuing invasion of Ukraine and Israel's response to Hamas.

The security costs are going to be astronomical. If they let Russian athletes in, it may be a craven ploy to prevent attacks. But I think it is far too much to ask of athletes in the village to be side by side with citizens of a nation that is attacking their country.
Yes but… war is not by the choice eof the athlete done if whom my object to war.
 

Aussie Willy

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I only pop back into this thread when I see it appear.

Has this issue been resolved yet? It will be two years in February.
 

Karen-W

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IIRC February is when the judgement in the Valieva case will be handed down. Not sure if the issue of medal distribution will be resolved at the same time though.
The latest ISU communication stated that the CAS decision is EXPECTED by Feb 12, 2024. That doesn't mean it will arrive by then, just that's the current guidance from CAS on their timeline. It could also come earlier or it could come later.

As far as the distribution of medals - I fully expect the ROC to fight any ISU/IOC decision that strips their entire team of the gold medal or of any medal at all. I'll honestly be surprised if the medals are decided by next summer and I think we're looking at a medal ceremony for the 2022 Team Event at Milano-Cortina instead - though I suppose it's possible, if the US is elevated to gold that the ISU/IOC might offer to hold a special medal ceremony at Boston Worlds.
 
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