Royalty Thread #16: the best of times, the worst of times

[Lynn226]

So apparently Will and Harry were at their uncle's funeral this past week but didn't talk? That's kind of sad.

I heard about that. If they had spoken publicly though would it have distracted from the funeral? This way, they did what people probably expected. They did not speak to one another publicly.

 

[canbelto]

I heard about that. If they had spoken publicly though would it have distracted from the funeral? This way, they did what people probably expected. They did speak to one another publicly.

True. I suppose it's good they were able to co-exist at the same event.

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

I heard about that. If they had spoken publicly though would it have distracted from the funeral? This way, they did what people probably expected. They did speak to one another publicly.

Did you mean privately?

 

[Lynn226]

Did you mean privately?

I meant they did not speak publicly, as expected.

 

[taf2002]

Why would the RF object to H&M going to countries that participate in the Invictus games? I don't know they do but these reports seem to be persistent. I do know that Charles has shown his jealousy over the years when anyone in the family gets more or better press than him. Example: his treatment of Eunice & Beatrice. There is no earthly reason why he isn't using them for appearances.

 

[Lynn226]

Why would the RF object to H&M going to countries that participate in the Invictus games? I don't know they do but these reports seem to be persistent. I do know that Charles has shown his jealousy over the years when anyone in the family gets more or better press than him. Example: his treatment of Eunice & Beatrice. There is no earthly reason why he isn't using them for appearances.

I've heard similar stories about the jealousy of Charles. I've also heard Catherine is careful not to upstage William for the same reason.

As for Harry and Meghan, perhaps it seems too much like a royal tour. This is what I've heard from some critics.

Who really knows?

 

[canbelto]

Charles, Will and Harry all seem like really difficult dudes with fragile egos. The apple didn't fall far from the tree with Harry and Will.

 

[Karen-W]

The issues with the Sussexes traveling to these countries are many - not the least of which both Nigeria and Colombia are on the US State Dept and UK Foreign Office travel advisory lists due to terrorist and gang violence threats as well as political unrest. The link to the Invictus Games is flimsy, at best, for Colombia - and that was clear from the video and photographs of their scheduled events in the country. Additionally, the events have been carefully, one might argue too tightly, managed from a media relations point of view. I suppose if sugar-syrupy sweet, positive public relations press satisfies you as a consumer then you take no issue with these excursions of theirs. For me, given that they are said to be running a non-profit philanthropic organization that has collected millions of dollars in donations, I expect them to accept that there is a need for transparency and that the media's role is not to fawn all over them but to scrutinize and independently report on activities related to their philanthropic work.

 

[Winnipeg]

Which uncle died?

 

[canbelto]

Which uncle died?

Diana's sister Jane's husband.

 

[Karen-W]

In other exciting royal news - Sweden's Prince Carl Philip and Princess Sofia are expecting their fourth child in February 2025!

Prince Carl Philip and Princess Sofia are expecting a child

Their Royal Highnesses Prince Carl Philip and Princess Sofia are delighted to announce that The Princess is expecting their fourth child.

www.kungahuset.se

They have three boys already - Alexander, Gabriel and Julian.

 

[taf2002]

The issues with the Sussexes traveling to these countries are many - not the least of which both Nigeria and Colombia are on the US State Dept and UK Foreign Office travel advisory lists due to terrorist and gang violence threats as well as political unrest. The link to the Invictus Games is flimsy, at best, for Colombia - and that was clear from the video and photographs of their scheduled events in the country. Additionally, the events have been carefully, one might argue too tightly, managed from a media relations point of view. I suppose if sugar-syrupy sweet, positive public relations press satisfies you as a consumer then you take no issue with these excursions of theirs. For me, given that they are said to be running a non-profit philanthropic organization that has collected millions of dollars in donations, I expect them to accept that there is a need for transparency and that the media's role is not to fawn all over them but to scrutinize and independently report on activities related to their philanthropic work.

Any person can ignore advisories if they want. However the inviting country(ies) will obviously do their best to provide security. If the RF views H&M's trips as too much like a royal tour that's their problem. I know they probably want the Sussexes to go away & die. It's too bad if they aren't able to dictate how H&M live their lives. BTW what's with the dig = " I suppose if sugar-syrupy sweet, positive public relations press satisfies you as a consumer then you take no issue with these excursions of theirs"? You're correct, I take no issue although I wouldn't characterize the coverage of their trip as sugar-syrupy sweet. YMMV

 

[MsZem]

Why would the RF object to H&M going to countries that participate in the Invictus games? I don't know they do but these reports seem to be persistent. I do know that Charles has shown his jealousy over the years when anyone in the family gets more or better press than him. Example: his treatment of Eunice & Beatrice. There is no earthly reason why he isn't using them for appearances.

Who's Eunice, and how has Beatrice been ill-treated? She seems very happy with her life.

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

Who's Eunice, and how has Beatrice been ill-treated? She seems very happy with her life.

Just what we need - a mashup of the BRF and "Mama's Family"! Not to mention that Carol Burnett played a character named Beatrice (pronounced "Bee-at-riss") in a movie made for TV, in addition to Eunice.

I believe a text-correcting software must have changed "Eugenie" into "Eunice".

 

[taf2002]

Who's Eunice, and how has Beatrice been ill-treated? She seems very happy with her life.

I meant Eugenie. Both princesses seem happy but they are part of Charles' downsizing of the RF. No paid public appearances for one & I read he wants to remove their princess titles as "minor royals".

 

[attyfan]

I meant Eugenie. Both princesses seem happy but they are part of Charles' downsizing of the RF. No paid public appearances for one & I read he wants to remove their princess titles as "minor royals".

Charles has spoken of downsizing the number of working royals for a long, long time ... it is one reason why Eugenie and Beatrice went out and got jobs after college, as they knew they would not be working royals.

 

[Karen-W]

Charles has spoken of downsizing the number of working royals for a long, long time ... it is one reason why Eugenie and Beatrice went out and got jobs after college, as they knew they would not be working royals.

No, Charles has NOT spoken about downsizing. Sources close to him, even Prince Philip in the late '90s/early '00s, recognized that the general public opinion was not in favor of having a bunch of "minor" royals performing royal duties rather than working in the private sector. To that end, it was made clear to both Andrew & Edward that their children would not have public roles as working royals. To their credit, both Bea and Eugenie understood the message, earned their college degrees from good universities and went to work in the private sector. They both seem happy and content with their lives, and they're both happy to, like their "non-royal" cousins, Zara & Peter, step in and help out with things like garden parties or occasional appearances on behalf of the Royal Family when necessary - like this spring with Kate's cancer diagnosis. Same goes for Louise and James, though they're both still in school. My guess is that the six cousins will likely "tag in" and help out from time to time as events that align with their personal interests occur, to help bring a little youth and glamour to the Royal Family until the Wales children are old enough to take on more public responsibilities.

The plain and simple fact is that the intention was for Harry & his wife, as son and daughter-in-law of the direct heir when Charles was still POW, to fill the role, in a much fuller way, that is now getting filled in by the other cousins. The people who have benefitted most from the Sussexes bowing out aren't Charles, Camilla, Kate & William - it's Edward & Sophie, who have definitely increased their profile in the past few years; Anne, whose presence and support is demonstrably valued and appreciated by Charles; and the Duke & Duchess of Gloucester, who are as active and supportive of the Crown as they have ever been - and Charles recognized and honored Brigitte's tireless service this year by making her a Lady of the Garter.

The Sussexes could have had all that, in due course, but they weren't satisfied with having to follow orders (of the Foreign Office who schedules all the "royal tours" to other countries; of the sovereign who has far more life experience and one might argue a better finger on the pulse of the nation than, no offense to Meghan, a new immigrant and her spouse who apparently had a lot of unaddressed mental health issues that made him arrogant and difficult to work with behind the scenes), nor were they satisfied with not having the spotlight on themselves at all times - and, really, failing to understand that, due to the very nature of what a monarchy is and how inheritance works, they were never going to be the top dog all the time in the chain and their role was always destined to that of ensemble cast member who sometimes gets a featured solo but often times does not.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Yes, he has spoken about downsizing, at least through the usual type of sources. From a 2011 article in Vanity Fair:
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2011/08/prince-andrew-201108

Robert Jobson, author of William & Kate: The Love Story and a royal commentator for NBC News, told me. “When Charles ascends the throne—which he will do despite all the talk to the contrary—he’d like the royal family to be streamlined; he wants a smaller, more cost-effective monarchy. Andrew has made a tremendous effort to keep Beatrice and Eugenie close to the Queen in order to assure their future as fully paid-up members of the Firm, as the royal family is called. In addition to their status as royal highnesses, Andrew has always wanted them to have around-the-clock security and the rank of working royals. But if Charles has his way, the girls will be thrown off the royal payroll and have to fend for themselves.

 

[Karen-W]

Yes, he has spoken about downsizing, at least through the usual type of sources. From a 2011 article in Vanity Fair:
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2011/08/prince-andrew-201108

So, where exactly in that article you quoted is Charles himself quoted as saying he wants to downsize? As I stated in my comment, Charles himself has never been directly quoted on the matter. Sources close to him have said that's his intent but even those sources aren't being directly quoted. There is a reporter stating his own observation & assessment of the situation, reading of the tea leaves as it were. But, again, there isn't any actual quote from anyone apart from a reporter who is, certainly, well-connected and with good sources.

 

[puglover]

The thing that never ceases to surprise me are the number of articles, some apparently quoting well-placed sources, that foresee a reconciliation of sorts. These predictions see some version of Prince Harry and Meghan back in GB for periods of time, taking an active role in royal duties, and some kind of a kiss and make up happening between the brothers. That sounds like the King and Prince William basically agreeing to the terms put forth by Prince Harry in the beginning that were denied by the Queen.

I just can't think of this as a "rift, dispute, conflict, discord, disagreement, altercation". I would imagine the hurt from all that has gone on to be very deep and it involves the women they love which greatly intensifies it. Without doubt, it would have been very useful to have had Prince Harry and Meghan ready to step in as the King and Princess Catherine battle their health issues but I have no doubt the royal family will gird up their loins and carry on. I keep reading that Prince Harry wants to go back and misses home but really? The funeral of his uncle is from his mother's side of the family and as he remains close to them it makes sense he would go back for that.

 

[canbelto]

Well at the end of the day they are family. Which means they can love each other while hating each other at the same time, like any other family.

 

[Vagabond]

The thing that never ceases to surprise me are the number of articles, some apparently quoting well-placed sources, that foresee a reconciliation of sorts.

Which reminds me....

Oasis reunite; Harry and Wills could be next. Nothing like money to bring people together | Marina Hyde

If Liam and Noel can overcome their differences for a lucrative tour, there’s surely a lesson for the House of Windsor, says Guardian columnist Marina Hyde

www.theguardian.com

On Sunday I read a headline in the Mail that stated: “Duke of Sussex asks former aides to help plot RETURN from his US exile in first stage of ‘rehabilitation strategy’.” Yet intriguingly, today’s Mail picks up a Telegraph report and runs with the headline: “Prince Harry has ‘no interest’ in returning to Britain to resume royal duties”. Please don’t find yourself asking: “For God’s SAKE – which one is it, then?” This is the royal reporting genre.

Since all of these "well-placed sources" wisely choose to remain anonymous, we should wisely choose not to give these articles any credit.

 

[taf2002]

I keep reading that William is "incensed" that Harry is about to inherit (I think) 7 million pounds from Diana. I hate these tabloid stories. I can't fathom why he would care. Harry didn't automatically cease to be Diana's son just because of the feud.

nm

 

[marbri]

I keep reading that William is "incensed" that Harry is about to inherit (I think) 7 million pounds from Diana. I hate these tabloid stories. I can't fathom why he would care. Harry didn't automatically cease to be Diana's son just because of the feud.

nm

You need to stop reading tabloids for starters That inheritance is from the Queen Mother, not Diana. It's from a trust she set up giving money to various descendants of hers on their 40th birthday. William and other grandchildren etc... got/get money on their 40th as well. Tabloids are just tabloiding trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[taf2002]

You need to stop reading tabloids for starters That inheritance is from the Queen Mother, not Diana. It's from a trust she set up giving money to various descendants of hers on their 40th birthday. William and other grandchildren etc... got/get money on their 40th as well. Tabloids are just tabloiding trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.

True. It's just that I've seen that more than once. I don't ever deliberately go on tabloids but I do read yahoo news & sometimes they repeat what is on other "news" sites.

 

[Winnipeg]

How do you know Diana did not have money of her own to bequeath to her sons? She came from a wealthy family after all?

The Queen I am sure left money as well but Diana may have also left money or other assets.

If William is incensed at Harry's inheritance, which I find hard to believe, then he would indeed be a petty person. After all: 1. he is already wealthy beyond most people's dreams; and 2. the persons who left the money to Harry had the right to designate heirs as they wanted to (it was their estate to give away).

 

[Winnipeg]

BTW, has anyone heard anything more about Kate's recovery? I hope she is doing well.

 

[Jenny]

re royal "sources" - the one quoted in Vanity Fair above is just another person who makes his living off the royals, writing books and appearing on tv and being quoted in articles so that the media appear to have done their homework, and they put the burden of proof on the sources rather than their own reporting. Found these quotes from Harry himself (during testimony in one of his lawsuits against media outlets last year) about Robert Jobson and his ilk:

When being questioned about an article by British journalist Robert Jobson, who has reported on the royals for decades and written several books on the royal family, Prince Harry questioned the credentials of some royal reporters.

“I wouldn’t regard him as a specialist, no,” Harry told the court.

He also said that he wouldn’t call Jobson’s contacts within the Palace “sources.”

“They may be imaginary sources,” he said.

Sometimes the source is real – it exists. Sometimes the source is completely made up.” Harry has made versions of this critique before – most recently in the Netflix documentary he made with his wife, the Duchess of Sussex.

In the documentary, a friend of the couple said she doesn’t “understand” what the term royal expert “means.”

“Someone can just call themselves a royal expert?” the friend asked.

“Royal correspondent is a title that is given to a select group of journalists just so that those newspapers can use them and their stories with royal correspondent as credible fact, just so that whatever the papers print can come with extra credibility,” Harry said in the documentary.

“Anyone can be a royal expert. The whole point of it is to try to lend legitimacy to media articles. And they get paid for it,” he added.

 

[Karen-W]

How do you know Diana did not have money of her own to bequeath to her sons? She came from a wealthy family after all?

The Queen I am sure left money as well but Diana may have also left money or other assets.

If William is incensed at Harry's inheritance, which I find hard to believe, then he would indeed be a petty person. After all: 1. he is already wealthy beyond most people's dreams; and 2. the persons who left the money to Harry had the right to designate heirs as they wanted to (it was their estate to give away).

Diana did have money of her own (or, well, that she got from the divorce settlement, definitely not her own family) that she left William & Harry. I believe they came into control of those funds when they were younger - either 25 or 30. I knew that the QM set up trust funds for all of her great-grandchildren who were born before she passed away (so, Louise & James don't have one from her) but haven't ever paid close attention to any of the reported terms so I just assumed Harry already had control of those funds.

If William is incensed I doubt it has anything to do with the existence of the trust funds themselves or the motive/reasons why the benefactor set it up in the first place. He may be concerned that Harry will burn through that money with his quixotic lawsuits and that could be what is being portrayed in the tabloid media as "William is incensed" because he thinks the lawsuits are pointless and will be a drain on his brother's bank account.

 

[marbri]

How do you know Diana did not have money of her own to bequeath to her sons? She came from a wealthy family after all?

The Queen I am sure left money as well but Diana may have also left money or other assets.

If William is incensed at Harry's inheritance, which I find hard to believe, then he would indeed be a petty person. After all: 1. he is already wealthy beyond most people's dreams; and 2. the persons who left the money to Harry had the right to designate heirs as they wanted to (it was their estate to give away).

Diana did leave them both money that they both got when they turned 30. The current discussion/gossip is about the inheritance Harry is about to get on his 40th birthday which is from the Queen Mother. So it has nothing to do with Diana.

eta... Just adding for context. The Queen Mother died 22 years ago so this is not news to Harry or William, they would have been aware of her will and the trust she set up for two decades. Diana died 27 years ago. Harry and William got their inheritance at least a decade ago.

This is clickbait that feeds off the feud between these two brothers.