Royalty Thread #10 -Archie Phase 2 - Bold and Bald Still

mag

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Being portrayed in a less than positive light by the tabloid media is no excuse to betray one's daughter and her in-laws!
Perhaps Meghan and her friends should take this same advice. Being portrayed in a less than positive light is no excuse for betraying your father by allowing friends to shame him in an international publication.

Again, Mr. Markle is no saint, but neither is Meghan. Lots of blame to share around. H&M have good reason to be upset about a lot of stuff on social media, but suing a media company and further bringing attention to this letter is not going to solve or help that situation.

Someone also needs to sit Harry down and give him a history lesson. He was very young when his mother died. He was understandably traumatized by her death. He deserves much sympathy and support. What he does not deserve is his own set of facts. Diana courted the media and used them to her own and her charities’ advantage. Again, lots of blame on both the media and Diana for how the relationship between them developed, but Diana died because she was being driven by a drunk driver, at high speed, and was not wearing a seatbelt.

Harry’s insistance that it was all one sided - big bad media, perfect innocent Diana - is both wrong and unhelpful.

Edited: spelling
 

kittyjake5

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^^^Facts are facts but a lot of folks including Harry still think that the main reason the accident occurred
was that Diana's car was being pursued by the paparazzi hence the reason for her driver speeding.
 

taf2002

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^^^Facts are facts but a lot of folks including Harry still think that the main reason the accident occurred
was that Diana's car was being pursued by the paparazzi hence the reason for her driver speeding.
That is probably true but that didn't keep her from wearing her seatbelt or telling the driver to slow down. What was the paparazzi going to do if they caught her? They couldn't take pictures if her car windows were tinted & if they weren't she could hide her face if she wanted. They certainly couldn't force their way into the car.
 

Winnipeg

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Someone earlier in this thread said Archie has ginger hair. Prove it.

Diana's death was tragic for sure. However, you can't blame the paparazzi. The man behind the wheel was driving too fast and too drunk. Period. What we may not know is whether he was told to drive fast by his boss to elude the photographers? Also, a seatbelt would have helped protect against the impact of the accident.
 

canbelto

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Getting back to Archie I think he heavily favors Meghan facially. And Meghan looks more like her dad (when he was young) than Doria.
 

kittyjake5

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That is probably true but that didn't keep her from wearing her seatbelt or telling the driver to slow down. What was the paparazzi going to do if they caught her? They couldn't take pictures if her car windows were tinted & if they weren't she could hide her face if she wanted. They certainly couldn't force their way into the car.
People want to believe what they want to believe, look at what is going on in the White House.
 

canbelto

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Someone earlier in this thread said Archie has ginger hair. Prove it.

Diana's death was tragic for sure. However, you can't blame the paparazzi. The man behind the wheel was driving too fast and too drunk. Period. What we may not know is whether he was told to drive fast by his boss to elude the photographers? Also, a seatbelt would have helped protect against the impact of the accident.
The person in the front seat who was wearing a seat belt survived.
 

MacMadame

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The person in the front seat who was wearing a seat belt survived.
This doesn't prove that anyone else would have. Obviously the odds would go up. But the forces in the backseat are different than in the front.

Bottom line: we'll never know
 

mag

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Diana’s death was a huge tragedy that obviously had a profound affect on William and Harry. There is absolutely no doubt about that. I don’t think you ever “get over” something like that, but you hopefully learn to live with it and the pain dulls to some extent and the happy memories come back. Part of the process is facing facts. Living with resentment based on a false narrative is not good for mental health or helpful when building future relationships.

Coming to the realization that someone you loved and lost was not perfect, but the lack of perfection doesn’t matter, and most importantly doesn’t have any affect on the shared love, can be immensely freeing. Diana was not perfect but she loved her children and had a huge positive impact on many people. She also made some poor choices. We all make poor choices. It is part of life.

Hopefully Harry will come to that realization sooner rather than later. Hopefully those around him are trying to help him with that. The letter he wrote as part of the law suit would indicate to me that he is still a bit of a work in progress in that regard.
 

canbelto

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Diana’s death was a huge tragedy that obviously had a profound affect on William and Harry. There is absolutely no doubt about that. I don’t think you ever “get over” something like that, but you hopefully learn to live with it and the pain dulls to some extent and the happy memories come back. Part of the process is facing facts. Living with resentment based on a false narrative is not good for mental health or helpful when building future relationships.

Coming to the realization that someone you loved and lost was not perfect, but the lack of perfection doesn’t matter, and most importantly doesn’t have any affect on the shared love, can be immensely freeing. Diana was not perfect but she loved her children and had a huge positive impact on many people. She also made some poor choices. We all make poor choices. It is part of life.

Hopefully Harry will come to that realization sooner rather than later. Hopefully those around him are trying to help him with that. The letter he wrote as part of the law suit would indicate to me that he is still a bit of a work in progress in that regard.
There was an HBO documentary where William and Harry talk about their mother. William seems to have been more of her mothers' caretaker -- the calm, steadying force that kept Diana grounded. Harry was very guilty that at the time of her death their phone convos were very short and he hinted a bit strained. Like many children of broken homes he was resentful that his mother wasn't as available to him as he would have liked. I feel like Harry still has a lot of rage and anger in him and some of it is misdirected. That was my take after watching the documentary anyway.
 

mag

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@canbelto While I may not agree with Harry on this suit, my heart does go out him. I have no inside knowledge, but my gut says that Kate has been a great help to William working through all this. Feeling grief and guilt at the same time can be so debilitating. All made more difficult by Harry’s position in life and the natural hesitancy of many to have those very hard conversations with him.
 

canbelto

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@canbelto While I may not agree with Harry on this suit, my heart does go out him. I have no inside knowledge, but my gut says that Kate has been a great help to William working through all this. Feeling grief and guilt at the same time can be so debilitating. All made more difficult by Harry’s position in life and the natural hesitancy of many to have those very hard conversations with him.
My heart goes out to Harry too. It's obvious he feels so much guilt. In the documentary he says he didn't want to walk behind the casket. He felt like he "had" to.
I also don't think the BRF with their stiff upper lip ways would be well equipped to deal with grief of Harry's sort. I might be wrong but I think they're of the "get on with it" mentality.
 

mag

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My heart goes out to Harry too. It's obvious he feels so much guilt. In the documentary he says he didn't want to walk behind the casket. He felt like he "had" to.
I also don't think the BRF with their stiff upper lip ways would be well equipped to deal with grief of Harry's sort. I might be wrong but I think they're of the "get on with it" mentality.
It is hard to know. I remember reading somewhere that Charles always feared that something would happen to Diana, especially after she let her RPOs go. I think there was a lot of sincere grief from him. I also think he is not quite the heartless guy he is often made out to be. Yes, he made mistakes (see above, we all do) but again, he clearly loves his kids and I think would have done the best he could. Early teens are such a difficult time for kids. Any kind of change can be a nightmare. It is quite possible that if Harry hadn’t walked behind the coffin with the others he would have ended up regretting that too. Who knows?

I do hope Harry is getting professional help.

New project for Harry:

 
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taf2002

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This doesn't prove that anyone else would have. Obviously the odds would go up. But the forces in the backseat are different than in the front.

Bottom line: we'll never know
When the details of the injuries were released it was said that Diana had a flailed chest from hitting the back of the front seat. The experts at the scene said she would have survived if wearing a seatbelt. Maybe we'll never know for sure but it is certain that she wouldn't have had the chest injuries with a seatbelt.
 

MacMadame

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If they were good experts, they said "probably" in there somewhere.

But I'm just being pedantic
 

Japanfan

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Thomas Markle is out of his depth.

It's a shame that Meghan's father is apparently lacking in good sense and propriety, and that he's so easily manipulated by his older daughter.

The irresponsible behavior of the media in taking advantage of a weak and susceptible senior citizen who's related to the pregnant woman they have been intent on vilifying for clicks, readership, and monetary gain is utterly despicable.

Trying to figure him out is also a sad endeavor. Suffice to say, it appears that he doesn't have good sense; his ego is outsized; he's easily manipulable by relatives and strangers who harbor devious self-interest; he can't be trusted; he seems to think he has a chance in hell of reconciling with his youngest daughter at the same time he wishes to exploit and extort the fact that she has married extremely well. This, all the while whining about wanting to see his youngest grandson when, from all appearances, he has no relationship whatsoever with any of his other grandchildren. :blah:
I think he is a man in a great deal of pain. And he will be in even more pain if/when he comes to regret what he has done.

ITA with you about the media.
 

Japanfan

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Someone earlier in this thread said Archie has ginger hair. Prove it.

Diana's death was tragic for sure. However, you can't blame the paparazzi. The man behind the wheel was driving too fast and too drunk. Period. What we may not know is whether he was told to drive fast by his boss to elude the photographers? Also, a seatbelt would have helped protect against the impact of the accident.
Alcohol affects judgement. When you are driving, judgement involves that split second decision to deal with a dangerous situation - such as stopping just in a time when a car rushes an intersection turning left on yellow.

And not wearing a seatbelt is extremely stupid, IMO. They often save lives.
 

overedge

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That might be true in the particular instance, but I have known people who weren't broke but shared personal letters I sent them with others without asking me and contrary to my wishes. :mad:
Undoubtedly, but I hope those people weren't selling your letters to tabloid newspapers.
 

puglover

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Families and relationships within families are so complicated and history (good and bad) is very impactful on the here and now. If this is aimed entirely at warning the press about boundaries I can see value to this. It is too bad it involves her dad at all. He is an unwell, old man. It would be nice if they could find a private way to heal things to the point that he could at least see his grandson before he dies.
 

mag

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Undoubtedly, but I hope those people weren't selling your letters to tabloid newspapers.
The newspaper in question has been quite clear, and it has been mentioned at least once in this thread, Mr. Markle neither asked for, nor was offered any payment of any kind. Agree or disagree with what he did, but perpetuating the falsehood that he was paid is not cool.

I will add to this, that when Meghan’s friends spoke to People Magazine to show support for Meghan, I don’t remember people criticizing them or suggesting the did it for money. Generally speaking it was assumed they did it because they felt Meghan had been mischaracterized by the press. Perhaps we could offer the same courtesy to Mr. Markle. Again, lots of blame on both side of this argument. Both sides have done things that perhaps did not show the best judgement. There is also a lot we don’t know.

Edited for spelling
 
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taf2002

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@mag, both sides? IIRC Meghan asked her dad to walk her down the aisle. She asked him to come 2 wks early to share in all the pre-wedding festivities. He cited health reasons why he couldn't come & the next thing we knew about him is he was paid to talk to paparrazis. Then the onslaught from her 1/2 siblings. Then Meghan asked him not to speak to the press but he did. But yeah, she's just as much to blame as he.
 

mag

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@taf2002 Mr. Markle tells a different story. The fact that Meghan has used high powered friends to get her side of the story out gives her a huge advantage over her dad. Yes, I am sure he has been a jerk, but I would put good money on her being capable of being a jerk too. As far as the siblings go, as Mr. Markle put it “I have as much control over them as I do over you.” He should not be tarred and feathered for the things his other adult children have said and done. That is solely on them. Families are messy and weddings are stressful.

I don’t think this current legal action will help. What I do see, are a great number of similarities between Charles and Diana and Harry and Meghan. Probably not a popular observation, but there you have it.
 

Vagabond

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The newspaper in question has been quite clear, and it has been mentioned at least once in this thread, Mr. Markle neither asked for, nor was offered any payment of any kind....

I will add to this, that when Meghan’s friends spoke to People Magazine to show support for Meghan, I don’t remember people criticizing them or suggesting the did it for money. Generally speaking it was assumed they did it because they felt Meghan had been mischaracterized by the press. Perhaps we could offer the same courtesy to Mr. Markle.
That he didn't do it for money does not make him look any better.
 

canbelto

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I think royal weddings are almost always way overdone and I wouldn't be surprised if Mr. Markle found it overwhelming and had some sort of breakdown and didn't think he was camera-ready. As for Meghan's half siblings are they close to Mr. Markle? I don't know if they are. It seems that Mr. Markle lives quite an isolated existence in Mexico and that might be adding to the estrangement. But as I said, family estrangements like this are almost always very painful and rarely is it 100% someone's "fault." The good thing is I have known families that were completely estranged to repair the relationships. It can be done.
 

AxelAnnie

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And that would be your answer.

The Daily Mail


The Duchess of Sussex’s estranged father has told how he kept her controversial letter secret for six months, never intending to make it public.
But he felt he was forced to release some of its details when her friends ‘misrepresented’ its contents to an American magazine.
Thomas Markle received the handwritten five-page missive via FedEx from Meghan’s Los Angeles business manager Andrew Meyer in August 2018. Deeply hurt, he vowed to keep it private.
I kind of think Harry is caught in a spell. They sure spend a lot of time talking about wanting to keep their lives private..........just before moving the spotlight back on them.
 

canbelto

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If not for the money what was Mr. Markle’s reason for giving the letter to the Mail?
Trying to get attention? A cry for help? Who knows. The facts are that Thomas Markle once had a decent job working in Hollywood (he won some Emmy's for lighting design) but in recent years his fortunes seem to have taken a severe downturn. He filed for bankruptcy in 2016. It wouldn't surprise me if he was mentally unwell. One doesn't go from a decent career in Hollywood to living in a beach in Mexico without something happening.
 

mag

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If not for the money what was Mr. Markle’s reason for giving the letter to the Mail?
Trying to get attention? A cry for help? Who knows. The facts are that Thomas Markle once had a decent job working in Hollywood (he won some Emmy's for lighting design) but in recent years his fortunes seem to have taken a severe downturn. He filed for bankruptcy in 2016. It wouldn't surprise me if he was mentally unwell. One doesn't go from a decent career in Hollywood to living in a beach in Mexico without something happening.
Maybe he did it for exactly the reason he said he did it for? I am not saying it was a good reason, but is a reason and may seem perfectly legitimate to him. He could well be mentally unwell. For that matter, so could she. Why did Meghan tell at least one friend about the letter? Why did she allow her friends to talk to People Magazine? She hasn’t said, but I can think of a number of reasons why she would do that. Again, not saying any of them would be good reasons, but they might seem perfectly legitimate to her. Sometimes we do things that seem perfectly reasonable at the time, and no so much later on.
 

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