Royalty Thread #10 -Archie Phase 2 - Bold and Bald Still

antmanb

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I thought it was fairly standard practice for people who think they’re upper class to stick doggedly to the idea that rugby is the sport of gentlemen and football for the plebs...even though the sums you can earn in football eclipse that in rugby I think the point is that “new money” isn’t good enough for those people anyway.
 

Lorac

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I thought it was fairly standard practice for people who think they’re upper class to stick doggedly to the idea that rugby is the sport of gentlemen and football for the plebs...even though the sums you can earn in football eclipse that in rugby I think the point is that “new money” isn’t good enough for those people anyway.
And not just rugby but rugby union. Rugby league is played by those plebs up north - not the gentlemen of the south. 😁
 

antmanb

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And not just rugby but rugby union. Rugby league is played by those plebs up north - not the gentlemen of the south. 😁
Yes exactly that! :lol: Mr Antmanb's Yorkshire family are very staunch - the only real rugby is rugby league.
 

Zemgirl

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Swedish royalty is downsizing itself:

Downsizing the royal house, not the royal family.

The Dutch royals did something similar when Princess Beatrix abdicated in favor of King Willem-Alexander, and in Norway Princess Martha Louise's daughters aren't even styled as princesses. The Swedish royal family has really grown in the past decade, and it makes sense to pare things down a bit. The kids retain their titles and will continue to look cute in family photos :)

I'm sure Charles can't wait to do the same in the UK!
 

taf2002

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Downsizing the royal house, not the royal family.

The Dutch royals did something similar when Princess Beatrix abdicated in favor of King Willem-Alexander, and in Norway Princess Martha Louise's daughters aren't even styled as princesses. The Swedish royal family has really grown in the past decade, and it makes sense to pare things down a bit. The kids retain their titles and will continue to look cute in family photos :)

I'm sure Charles can't wait to do the same in the UK!
If they retained their titles then what was pared down?
 

mag

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They lost their HRH and will be expected to have jobs when they are adults.
And it sounds like this move was made with full consultation with family members. I think it makes sense. In the U.K. I could see Charles limiting HRH titles to his siblings and his children with his sibling’s children no longer having them and Harry’s child/ren not having them. William’s kids would keep the HRH. 24 hour security should also be limited to those with HRH. I think it would be an very popular move.
 

ballettmaus

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And it sounds like this move was made with full consultation with family members. I think it makes sense. In the U.K. I could see Charles limiting HRH titles to his siblings and his children with his sibling’s children no longer having them and Harry’s child/ren not having them. William’s kids would keep the HRH. 24 hour security should also be limited to those with HRH. I think it would be an very popular move.
I think security should be based on a threat assessment. Harry and Meghan and/or their kids might need security regardless of their title/style.
 

mag

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I think security should be based on a threat assessment. Harry and Meghan and/or their kids might need security regardless of their title/style.
I agree and I think Harry and Meghan, as son and daughter in law of the monarch (assuming these changes happened when Charles is King, would absolutely keep security. With Archie, once he is an adult, it would clearly depend. Assuming he gets a job like anyone else, there may no longer be a need. Obviously while he is still a child that is a different story. I know that there is a lot of publicity both good and bad around H&M right now, as there was around Andrew and Sarah when they were at the same stage of life (yes I know there are differences,) but H&M do not seem to want the same public life for Archie that Andrew has clearly lobbied for for his kids, and my understanding is there was a point where security for them was no longer deemed necessary but Andrew complained and got his way.

Should Archie stay out of the public eye it is quite possible he will be able to lead a relatively normal life. I would assume, for example, that only those with HRH would attend things like the trooping of the colour, or other public events. That seems to be in keeping with what Harry and Meghan are wanting for their child/ren and seems totally reasonable to me.
 

AxelAnnie

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I can't see Charles trying to do anything to realign the BRF. But - who knows? I don't think he has the best PR in the family. And to make that kind of change, one would have to be on really firm moral and philosophical grounds.
 

liv

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You know what I love? While we see that Archie is a ginger, and therefore everyone says he looks like Harry, all I see is a baby that looks like Mr. Markle. Yup, to me he looks like Meg's dad.... hehehe....
 

mag

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I can't see Charles trying to do anything to realign the BRF. But - who knows? I don't think he has the best PR in the family. And to make that kind of change, one would have to be on really firm moral and philosophical grounds.
Charles has spoken about a streamlined Royal family so I wouldn’t be shocked if he at least broached the subject with his kids. Given Harry and Meghan’s wish for Archie to have a more “normal” upbringing (normal in the sense of everyday ultra rich kids lol) I can certainly see how I streamline approach that exempted him from any duties or public outings might appeal.
 

JJH

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If only HRHs attend the Trooping of the Colours, the balcony will be rather dull. Princess Anne's children and grandchildren would be missing. Prince Edward's children would be missing. Wouldn't the balcony consist of Prince and Princess Michael of Kent, The Duke and Duchess of Kent, Princess Alexandra, the Duke and Duchess of Gloucester from Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip's generation-age range 98 to 73. Also, there would be Prince Andrew, Princess Anne, Prince Edward & the Countess of Wessex and the Duchess of Cornwall from Prince Charles' generation-age range 72 to 54. The next generation would consist of the and Prince Harry & the Duchess of Sussex, Princess Eugenie, Princess Beatrice, Prince William and the Duchess of Cambridge-age range 38 to 29. The only children on the balcony would be Prince George, Princess Charlotte and Prince Louis-age range 6 to 17 months.

Nope, I'm not having it. The proportion of senior citizens to cute children is entirely skewed. I demand more cute children and even adolescents. They provide most of the entertainment on the balcony.

As long as I'm pontificating, I would like to add that I resent the fact that Prince Andrew's children are somehow deemed more shiney and special than Princess Ann's or Prince Edward's.
I like Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie perfectly well, but how I wish that at the time Queen Elizabeth declared that gender was no longer a factor in the order of the monarchy for Princess Charlotte to take precedence over Prince Louis that the Queen had also applied this to her own children for Princess Anne to take precedence over her younger brothers.

And now I will shut up. (Not a moment too soon)
 

Zemgirl

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As long as I'm pontificating, I would like to add that I resent the fact that Prince Andrew's children are somehow deemed more shiney and special than Princess Ann's or Prince Edward's.
Princess Anne and Mark Phillips chose to keep their children untitled, and it's given them more freedom to live their lives as they choose. I'm not sure who is treating Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie as shiny and special; I've seen a lot of bitching about them (not here) on account of their parents' behavior, right down to ugly speculation that Beatrice's wedding is meant to distract from her father possibly being a sexual predator. The York princesses are not responsible for their parents.

Lady Louise and Viscount Severn are both minors and will probably have mostly private lives and careers in the future. Their parents are wise to limit their visibility to the public and the media.
 

mella

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I agree that no one really treats Beatrice and Eugenie as shiny and special but there have been quite a few reports over the years that Andrew gets quite uppity about his children's place in the Royal household and I seem to recall reading a while back that he and Charles had been at loggerheads over something- it may have been the security point someone mentioned earlier or Royal accommodations.

I've also read that Charles wants to scale back the Household which I assume is why he and Andrew would have opposing views re certain privileges.

Iirc there was no intention originally for Eugene's wedding to be televised but Andrew took offence that the BBC didn't think it would draw suffient interest and ITV stepped in.

Can't vouch for the reliability of much of this - just bits and pieces I've read.

FWIW, ETA:

 
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Zemgirl

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Reactions from Princess Madeleine and Prince Carl-Philip to the changes to the Swedish royal house, with cute pictures of their kids :)
Given that Madeleine's husband Chris O'Neill chose to remain a private citizen, I don't doubt their sincerity, and imagine CP and Sofia are indeed fine with this move as well.

I agree that no one really treats Beatrice and Eugenie as shiny and special but there have been quite a few reports over the years that Andrew gets quite uppity about his children's place in the Royal household and I seem to recall reading a while back that he and Charles had been at loggerheads over something- it may have been the security point someone mentioned earlier or Royal accommodations.
Whatever Andrew is doing, it seems to be more about what he wants than what his daughters might want. Beatrice and Eugenie seem perfectly fine living their lives without being working royals

I am happy that there was a lot of coverage of Eugenie's wedding - her dress was gorgeous and the decision to show off her scar was such a great message when it comes to body positivity.
 

JJH

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Sorry. My babble wasn't clear. My rant was only related to the suggestion that only HRHs would be present on the balcony for the Trooping of the Colour. Princess Anne's children and grandchildren and Prince Edward's children were present in 2019 and 2018. I enjoy them! I would object to them being considered of less importance than the Queen's cousins, HRH or not.

Yes, Princess Eugenie's wedding gown was my favorite of the last 5-10 years (of British Royals).
 

mella

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Whatever Andrew is doing, it seems to be more about what he wants than what his daughters might want. Beatrice and Eugenie seem perfectly fine living their lives without being working royals

I am happy that there was a lot of coverage of Eugenie's wedding - her dress was gorgeous and the decision to show off her scar was such a great message when it comes to body positivity.
I imagine they are perfectly content. Its hard to imagine they envy their cousins the scrutiny that comes with their status. I've never read anything to suggest either Beatrice or Eugine have any complaints. More that (as the article said) Andrew considers certain things a slight against him and them.
 
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taf2002

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By the time Charles becomes King (if he ever does, his mother may outlive him) Andrew may be so disgraced that he will finally keep his mouth shut about wanting to be more front-and-center.
 

canbelto

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Beatrice and Eugenie are treated as "shinier" because Andrew is the Queen's "favorite." I have no idea why. There seems to be almost nothing likable about him. The relationship between Charles and Andrew has always been quite frosty though.
 

Jenny

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Brothers. I can think of a million reasons why Charles and Andrew might have had issues now or in the past - the special treatment of Charles as future king, the public attention Andrew used to get thanks to his looks and bachelor persona, disagreements on wives and parenting, attention from mummy and daddy, who knows.

But as for Andrew's pushing of his daughters into the spotlight, I know we're all turning on him in recent years, but maybe that's just about being a proud papa - same thing countless other fathers have wanted for their little "princesses," no?
 

puglover

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Maybe out of ignorance of the true facts, I am not sure, but I have thought that Prince Andrew has shown considerable compassion and understanding to Sarah. I realize she is the mother of his children but it appears he has continued to provide a home for her, in fact, in his home. Somehow they have seemed to manage parenting their daughters into lovely young women.
 

mag

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Maybe out of ignorance of the true facts, I am not sure, but I have thought that Prince Andrew has shown considerable compassion and understanding to Sarah. I realize she is the mother of his children but it appears he has continued to provide a home for her, in fact, in his home. Somehow they have seemed to manage parenting their daughters into lovely young women.
Perhaps it is Sarah showing considerable compassion for Andrew? There was plenty of blame on both sides for the breakdown of that marriage. Continuing to be a kind and courteous to your former spouse, continuing to raise your children together, is what responsible adults do.
 

liv

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@liv What does hehehe mean in this context?
Nothing nasty.

Just that despite everything (meaning the questions about the relationship between Meg and her dad, the reasons behind it, his feeling of being cut off etc..), genetics can't be hidden away. Obviously babies look like family, and obviously they are changing every day, but, in these first clear non newborn photos (imho), out of all the family members he could have resembled (Harry, Meg, Charles or Doria etc.,) he happens to look like the one of contention, Mr. Markle... I suppose that if I were feeling rather hurt and bitter, as Mr. Markle seems to, I'd be pleased to see that despite efforts to cut me out, they can't cut out the genes. That's why I put hehehe.


As for the Swedish royal grandchildren losing titles... a good, practical decision for all parties involved.

I think it would be good for the British royals to have a more streamlined approach as well. Obviously the direct inheriting line should keep status, but as we branch out we start getting more cousins with no chance of inheriting and with little interest from the public and press. It would just be better to be a private citizen and able to have your own life (albeit with amazing connections, privileges etc..) Princess Anne chose wisely for her children and as a result they have forged their own paths, even if eased/smoothed over by those connections.
 

aftershocks

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I can understand how Mr. Markle must be feeling. The papers were brutal about him and his home prior to the wedding, and that People article, with the letter paraphrased by powerful Hollywood stars, was also quite brutal. He is feeling hurt and betrayed and probably embarrassed and wants to set the record straight.
Thomas Markle is out of his depth. It's fortunate that during M&H's courtship the press pack was unable to locate him in Mexico. After the engagement, it's rumored that someone spilled the beans about his whereabouts, likely for money. It appears that Meghan had at some point informed her father about the relationship with Prince Harry (probably in advance of their dating becoming public). My opinion is that Meghan had reason to be wary of her father's behavior and reactions, and thus she probably did her best to cautiously keep him in the loop early on. We also know that M&H tried to prepare Markle Sr for the media onslaught. Even he admits M&H advised him not to talk with the media. Being portrayed in a less than positive light by the tabloid media is no excuse to betray one's daughter and her in-laws! It seems clear that Markle Sr not making more of an effort to attend the wedding, is not the first time he disappointed his younger daughter. M&H had encouraged Markle Sr to come to London two weeks in advance of the wedding, in order to get acclimated, comfortably situated, and fitted for a suit (had he done so, his health issues could have been looked after as well).

Although, Meghan only spoke about her father in a positive way on her Instagram and in other print reminisces prior to meeting Harry, there had to have been some discord in communication with her father during her teenage years. I suspect that the older adult children were peeved as they saw Meghan excelling and having the opportunity to attend an exclusive private school, and later a prestigious college. In addition, they surely resented Markle Sr spending time working on the lighting and stagecraft for all of Meghan's school productions, particularly when she was in high school. Meanwhile, Markle Sr was not around when the older kids were growing up. He'd left them and their mother to pursue his fortunes in Hollywood. Markle Jr, and Samantha (aka Yvonne) were teenagers before they had the chance to get to know their father. From all available evidence, it appears that Markle Jr and Samantha (especially the latter) have been good at manipulating and laying guilt trips on Markle Sr over the years.

Once the news of M&H dating hit the news cycle, the media began harassing and attempting to bribe everyone and anyone willing who were former friends, family, neighbors, co-workers, or former acquaintances of Meghan. The media hit paydirt with a few people. It's a shame that Meghan's father is apparently lacking in good sense and propriety, and that he's so easily manipulated by his older daughter.

Meghan's close friends mentioning existence of the letter to People magazine was done to counter Markle Sr's mistruths. Revealing the existence of the letter and briefly stating the letter's intent is a far cry from selling or offering the actual letter to a notorious tabloid publication. Meghan's friends came to her aid in an atmosphere of OTT media negativity that was directed at Meghan throughout her pregnancy. The irresponsible behavior of the media in taking advantage of a weak and susceptible senior citizen who's related to the pregnant woman they have been intent on vilifying for clicks, readership, and monetary gain is utterly despicable.

It appears to be difficult in certain quarters to keep these 'royal' matters surrounding the Sussexes in logical, sensible perspective. But showering Markle Sr with overdone sympathy is sadly, yet definitely, a waste of time and effort. Trying to figure him out is also a sad endeavor. Suffice to say, it appears that he doesn't have good sense; his ego is outsized; he's easily manipulable by relatives and strangers who harbor devious self-interest; he can't be trusted; he seems to think he has a chance in hell of reconciling with his youngest daughter at the same time he wishes to exploit and extort the fact that she has married extremely well. This, all the while whining about wanting to see his youngest grandson when, from all appearances, he has no relationship whatsoever with any of his other grandchildren. :blah:
 

aftershocks

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Catching up with previous M&H related news:

https://meaww.com/meghan-markle-vogue-selling-fourteen-times-list-price-online-fans-cash-hype-surrounding-magazine September issue of British Vogue is, the last time I checked, selling on Amazon for $80. Some copies were available a few weeks ago in Barnes & Noble chains in the U.S. for $11. It sold for around £3 or £4 in England.


Part of the intense interest in the Sussexes surely has to do with their love story. Everyone desires love, but actually sharing true love is rare, especially the way these two seem to experience it and cherish it. The below pictures are worth a thousand words. Harry can't seem to take his eyes off his wife in these photos:
https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--lY5ZOO-0--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/mivakk1slydl3rrgxevf.jpg

https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/prince-harry-meghan-markle-documentary-africa-tour-1570180655.jpg?c


The legal action against the DM was threatened in February, as per the below article. The DM did not want to settle out of court, so that's why further action was taken:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/feb/23/duchess-of-sussex-threatens-to-sue-mail-on-sunday-over-letter-to-father

And ah well, as the below well-edited montage attests, the haters can stay pressed or suck it up. M&H have supporters of goodwill from around the globe. The haters can hate, while the Sussex Set stay mad and on point against media detractors: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btwcva1LGuk featuring Set, by Ciara from Beauty Marks album
"I can smell your hate from about a mile away, you mad that I just won't come down..." :respec:

And this is a tribute to Harry for his birthday (September 15) -- he shares his birthday with his mother-in-law, Doria:
 

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