Pre-season poll: Which 3 U.S. Men do you want to see at the 2018 Olympics?

[bardtoob]

Max, Nathan, and Vincent.

I am done with male skaters that are pretty to watch but uninterested in competitive technical content. Even Patrick Chan has faced reality and added another type of quad in his "old age". I would not mind if Rippon earned a spot with a consistent 4Lz.

 

[RoseRed]

Yeah I believe you're right...But it's a competitive sport...isn't that the point? Younger athletes that are better equipped to keep up with the competitive scene eventually taking over.

Oh unrelated I guess but I wouldn't be surprised if half of the GPF qualifiers for the upcoming season are U.S. men. Japan does have the big 1-2 of Hanyu and Uno but then it drops a level once we get to #3. I'd say the U.S. has the deepest senior program going into the Olympic season. Let's just indulge in the fact that we have men who could challenge for the medals again

Well... one man Nathan's the only one I see as a medal threat individually. Things can always change over the GP season, but I'd be pretty surprised as it stands now to see anyone outside the big six (Hanyu, Uno, Chan, Fernandez, Chen, Jin) medal.

And I think Hanyu, Uno, Chan, Chen and Fernandez are pretty likely to make the GPF. No guarantees, but they seem solid. Then there's Jin, maybe one of the Russians, and then other US men. And maybe I'm underestimating Jin here. So I would be surprised if half of the GPF qualifiers are Americans, even though I agree the US men are the deepest.

 

[antmanb]

Max, Nathan, and Vincent.

I am done with male skaters that are pretty to watch but uninterested in competitive technical content. Even Patrick Chan has faced reality and added another type of quad in his "old age". I would not mind if Rippon earned a spot with a consistent 4Lz.

Never mind a bird flying with a broken wing, that would require pigs flying

I love Adam, and I love his coldplay LP, but him putting a 4Lz in his programmes is a wing and prayer element that is usually << .

 

[LKR]

Regardless of what happens, this should be the most exciting men's event at Nationals since 2010.

Chen, Zhou, and Brown I'm predicting for the team. Those are the three I want as well, although I would be happy if Rippon finally got his Olympics. Farris making it on the team would be an incredible comeback but I don't expect it to happen. I can appreciate Max for his personality but not his skating, and Ross is so 2013.

Also interested to see Alexei Krasnozhon against the senior men. I already have my eyes on him for 2022.

 

[el henry]

I am so so so over men's skaters who ignore steps, spins, artistry and audience connection, and consider an extra rotation in a jump is "technical mastery".

Just so over that.

 

[icellist]

I think the only sure one is Nathan.

I went with Joshua Farris and Max Aaron. I have a soft spot for almost team trainwreck skaters with perseverance. Realistically it'll be Jason Brown and Vincent Zhou though (the latter depending on his first GP season). I don't think Adam is going to compare to Jason because Jason can get higher GOE and PCS with the same content. I don't think Adam is going to bring a 4Lz again.

 

[dawnie]

Already mentioned this in the US Men's thread- Chen and Zhou on the team makes the most sense with the 3rd spot going to whoever has the best GP and Nationals among Brown, Aaron, and Rippon.

 

[skateboy]

I am so so so over men's skaters who ignore steps, spins, artistry and audience connection, and consider an extra rotation in a jump is "technical mastery".

Just so over that.

Last I checked, all men's skaters display steps and spins. No one ignores them but, as with all competition, some are better at them than others.

Artistry is subjective, but I know what you mean. As for audience connection, some skaters are naturally more charismatic than others. Julian Yee is right at the top in that area, for me. So is Misha Ge. Boyang Jin went from being a fairly bland performer to having as much audience connection as any skater this past season.

Technical mastery of a jump is based on the quality of the jump. You do sound rather dismissive of that "extra rotation," which is no small feat. And when you get past quad toe loops and salchows (insanely difficult) and into loops, flips and lutzes, the difficulty and mastery of them is practically superhuman... I am sure that every men's senior skater recognizes and respects that, even if not all fans do.

Even skaters from the past, such as John Curry and Toller Cranston, pushed the sport forward as jumpers. They were never behind their competitors, regarding jump content.

 

[bardtoob]

Never mind a bird flying with a broken wing, that would require pigs flying

I love Adam, and I love his coldplay LP, but him putting a 4Lz in his programmes is a wing and prayer element that is usually << .

Well then, I guess he will not earn it then.

 

[Bellanca]

Last I checked, all men's skaters display steps and spins. No one ignores them but, as with all competition, some are better at them than others.

Artistry is subjective, but I know what you mean. As for audience connection, some skaters are naturally more charismatic than others. Julian Yee is right at the top in that area, for me. So is Misha Ge. Boyang Jin went from being a fairly bland performer to having as much audience connection as any skater this past season.

Technical mastery of a jump is based on the quality of the jump. You do sound rather dismissive of that "extra rotation," which is no small feat. And when you get past quad toe loops and salchows (insanely difficult) and into loops, flips and lutzes, the difficulty and mastery of them is practically superhuman... I am sure that every men's senior skater recognizes and respects that, even if not all fans do.

Even skaters from the past, such as John Curry and Toller Cranston, pushed the sport forward as jumpers. They were never behind their competitors, regarding jump content.

Great post!

 

[Tahuu]

Try arguing with vocal musicians that their difficult techniques are not art, as everyone can sing...

I am long over with male skaters who skate lady-like layouts, move like a snail, skip like a spider, do camel spins without pointed toe, and insert dog-peeping pose everywhere in their programs. That’s a piece of fake art hanging in Trump’s golf clubs.

 

[el henry]

I just want to say I've seen and heard this argument that Toller did "all the jumps" and I want to know which skater folks were watching?

He did all the required jumps, (which were in fact *required * at that time) but he sure as heck wasn't the Boyang Jin or Nathan Chen or even Yuzuru Hanyu of his day when it came to jumps.

I'm never going to convince folks who think that the quadsters' spins are just fine, and they'll never convince me that a skater like Nathan, as he stands or skates now, is some great combination of artistry and jumps.

Just leave my Toller, when it comes to jumps, out of it.

 

[bardtoob]

I just want to say I've seen and heard this argument that Toller did "all the jumps" and I want to know which skater folks were watching?

Just leave my Toller, when it comes to jumps, out of it.

Can I go off on his music and costume selections?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M83RfwpaOaA

What is this? Lumber Jack on Disaster Mountain?

 

[Simone411]

I went with Jason, Nathan and Adam. Now, I wouldn't mind if Max is one of the top 3 because I happen to like his style and charisma on the ice. Wishing all our US men the best this skating season. Good luck to all of them because I admire any skater that gets on the ice in front of judges, the audience in the arena, and the millions of people that will be watching either on TV, IceNetwork, etc. All the competitors have my respect.

 

[Marco]

Technical mastery of a jump is based on the quality of the jump. You do sound rather dismissive of that "extra rotation," which is no small feat. And when you get past quad toe loops and salchows (insanely difficult) and into loops, flips and lutzes, the difficulty and mastery of them is practically superhuman... I am sure that every men's senior skater recognizes and respects that, even if not all fans do.

The quad only gives a skater an advantage if the rest of his skating does not lag behind as a result. Quads are difficult, no doubt, but someone who lands a quad and gets a 4 point TES advantage over say, Adam Rippon, can quickly lose that advantage if he does a camel spin like Max Aaron, or does not max his other jumps (i.e. doing 2axels instead of 3flips), or lands forward/ shakily. (just an example)

There is no right or wrong way to get points, but if one decides to focus more on quads, he better make sure he can land them well all the time.

 

[alchemy void]

We do. It's called 4 Continents.

 

[el henry]

Can I go off on his music and costume selections?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M83RfwpaOaA

What is this? Lumber Jack on Disaster Mountain?

Of course, I adored my Toller. But, looking back on any of the "avant garde" costume choices then, particularly those jumpsuits he loved, well, times have changed.....

Now, back to our regularly scheduled arguments

 

[skateboy]

The quad only gives a skater an advantage if the rest of his skating does not lag behind as a result. Quads are difficult, no doubt, but someone who lands a quad and gets a 4 point TES advantage over say, Adam Rippon, can quickly lose that advantage if he does a camel spin like Max Aaron, or does not max his other jumps (i.e. doing 2axels instead of 3flips), or lands forward/ shakily. (just an example)

There is no right or wrong way to get points, but if one decides to focus more on quads, he better make sure he can land them well all the time.

Agreed.

 

[Vagabond]

#TT Ross Miner, of course.

Beyond that, anyone who doesn't have crazy, obsessed, stalker fans.

 

[falling_dance]

nm

 

[Vagabond]

Even skaters from the past, such as John Curry and Toller Cranston, pushed the sport forward as jumpers. They were never behind their competitors, regarding jump content.

Yes, they were.

John Curry 1976 Olympics FS
Toller Cranston 1976 Olympics FS
Terry Kubicka 1976 Olympics FS

Kubicka did a triple lutz and a triple flip in combination with a mazurka and a double axel.

Neither Curry nor Cranston attempted either a triple lutz or a triple flip. Kubicka generally jumped higher and farther than either Curry or Cranston.

Despite that, each one of the judges gave both Curry and Cranston marks for Technical Merit that were at least as high as the ones for Kubicka. And quite justifiably so, if you ask me.

http://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/winter/1976/FSK/mens-singles-free-skating.html

 

[bardtoob]

@Vagabond I think the judges weren't doing Kubicka any favors because he was 11th in CF. If anything, his results were used as a wedge by the judges to get the placements they wanted overall.

 

[Vagabond]

@Vagabond I think the judges weren't doing Kubicka any favors because he was 11th in CF.

No doubt. I didn't say that they rightly gave Curry and Cranston marks for Technical Merit that were at least as high as the ones for Kubicka, only that they did so justifiably. If you look at things like jump entrances and exits, air position, spins, and steps, their marks are justifiable even without regard for Kubicka's placement going into the Free.

Cranston's triple toe loop certainly was shaky, though.

 

[skateboy]

Yes, they were.

John Curry 1976 Olympics FS
Toller Cranston 1976 Olympics FS
Terry Kubicka 1976 Olympics FS

Kubicka did a triple lutz and a triple flip in combination with a mazurka and a double axel.

Neither Curry nor Cranston attempted either a triple lutz or a triple flip. Kubicka generally jumped higher and farther than either Curry or Cranston.

Forgot about Terry. Yes, Terry (our family veterinarian for years, great guy!) had a triple flip and lutz (no loop), but he was the only one. Kind of the Nathan Chen (toe, salchow, flip, lutz) to Curry and Cranston's Hanyu (toe, salchow, loop).

Curry and Cranston were still technical jumping leaders of their time, they were never lagging behind.

 

[MAXSwagg]

Vincent needs experience NOW. He is the future. Long-term even more-so than Nathan. Adam is done in 8 months. In fact, Vincent's score should not be very similar to that of Nathan (as in Nathan's - and Boyang's - should be DROPPED to Vincent's level). I was appalled at Nationals when Nathan got SO much more PCS compared to Vincent, though not surprised, and his PCS in relation to Jason was outrageous. Even in juniors, other boys like Sota Yamamoto and Aliev had by far the superior skating skills of that "group."

Anywho, if the US wants future development and success, they need to start exposing these younger skaters now, on the big stages. Adam, Max, Grant et al. have had how many chances to prove themselves. Second and third chances are great, but after the million-and-first try, I think you'd just give up.

 

[jlai]

I don't think we should give up on skaters, but skaters do need different incentives to improve. Sometimes they are motivated by a new exciting assignment but other times skaters could be motivated by not having assignments and having to work for them

 

[Seerek]

Curry and Cranston were still technical jumping leaders of their time, they were never lagging behind.

At the very least, those 2 were ahead of the content of the 1972 quad. I'd say of those skaters with more difficulty, Kubicka and Minoru Sano were next best in presentation.

As for this poll, imagine the fluff pieces:

Manuel Lin Miranda gives advice for Jason Brown.

Ashley and Adam - the new Tara/Johnny?

Nathan - a scientific study on centrifugal force.

 

[olympic]

My heart - 1. Nathan, 2. Max, 3. Joshua

My head - 1. Nathan, 2. Jason, 3. Adam

I don't dislike any of the US men and the top men have serious potential to place high in the rankings, so I am content to let it play out at Nationals

 

[rfisher]

I voted for Nathan, Vincent and Adam because I like all of them. I don't care that Nathan and Vincent are young. Injuries have robbed both of them of more than a years competitiveness and if they make the top 3 at nationals, I hope they go. I just hope the US goes with the top 3 at Nationals and avoids the if they do not.

As to who will medal at the Olympics? That is always a total crap shoot. Just look at the bronze medal winner at Sochi.

 

[antmanb]

As to who will medal at the Olympics? That is always a total crap shoot. Just look at the bronze medal winner at Sochi.

I had to google to remember who did win the bronze